Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Banning of SL account for using form up command?
1SpectrE1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:47 am
#170
Third friggin day of this thread and the third friggin day without an answer from the Dev's/CSR's on what is acceptable playstyle for SL.
If anyone thinks this will end it's course once the ban is up you are sadly mistaken. The bottom line is we need an answer to ONE question.
AS A SQUAD LEADER, WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE USE , AS FAR AS FREQUENCY IS CONCERNED, OF OUR COMMANDS AT ANY LOCATION AND IN ANY CITY, THAT WILL NOT RESULT IN A WARNING, SUSPENSION AND/OR BANNING?
-once every second?
-once every 3 seconds?
-once every 30 seconds?
-depends on the responding CSR and his "mood of the day"?
1 simple question, ain't going anywhere till we get an answer!
1SpectrE1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:50 am
#171
Mindwhor wrot:
wow what a hipocritical team eh.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The statement was made in an effort to try and get a response that is consistent from the CSR"s. That is where the problem is, THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY REGARDING THE ISSUE OF sl SPAMMING OF COMMANDS.
Was this SS a call for this toon's banning, absolutely not. It was used in a effort for the SL community to see for themselves the location and the spam that Sabrinna was doing while the group was in combat that resulted in a ban! Simple as that!
Kaili
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:35 am
#172
I just reread all these messages, and I realize that it was not necessarily 1SpectrE1's SL that was doing this. Sorry for the mixup, I'm fixing my message accordingly.
---------------
You can't compare the spamming of an Entertainer or a Merchant to the spamming of a Squad Leader. A merchant on average says a message every 30-60 seconds. An entertainer every 60-90s. Combat classes that spam attacks don't have any messages that show in spatial to anyone but them. There's really no need to compare the two, totally different things.
And as for spamming commands, it's possible to be a very effective Squad Leader and not shout a message in the amount of time that this person is accused of doing. I know that I use my SL commands a great deal in battle and have never come across this problem. Unless the person shows a combat log of how often he was using his commands, we can't know that he was using them to a reasonable limit. Overuse just clogs up the spatial screen for no added bonus. Using a command every 5 to 10 seconds (20 for Rally) will provide you with all the bonuses you need and not clutter up the screen.
Finally, if a CSR warned him about spamming commands, he should have stopped and discussed the matter in a reasonable fashion instead of continuing to do what he was warned for. The CSR did not go out and suspend his account right away. In the conversation shown in the screenshot, both sides acknowledge that a warning was given before hand. If the SL had a problem, he should have discussed it before hand instead of bashing the CSR. It obviously caused more problems than it solved. Furthermore, SL commands have a relatively huge range of effect. He could have backed out of the populated area and his commands still could have been useful.
None of the messages posted here has contained any information on how to productively go about to fix this. Wait, I apologize, one of the messages had a suggestion to turn of the spatial chat related with SL commands. Yes, do this, by all means. And more productive thoughts instead of just berating people for doing their jobs.
Nothing will come of CSR-bashing.
---------------
You can't compare the spamming of an Entertainer or a Merchant to the spamming of a Squad Leader. A merchant on average says a message every 30-60 seconds. An entertainer every 60-90s. Combat classes that spam attacks don't have any messages that show in spatial to anyone but them. There's really no need to compare the two, totally different things.
And as for spamming commands, it's possible to be a very effective Squad Leader and not shout a message in the amount of time that this person is accused of doing. I know that I use my SL commands a great deal in battle and have never come across this problem. Unless the person shows a combat log of how often he was using his commands, we can't know that he was using them to a reasonable limit. Overuse just clogs up the spatial screen for no added bonus. Using a command every 5 to 10 seconds (20 for Rally) will provide you with all the bonuses you need and not clutter up the screen.
Finally, if a CSR warned him about spamming commands, he should have stopped and discussed the matter in a reasonable fashion instead of continuing to do what he was warned for. The CSR did not go out and suspend his account right away. In the conversation shown in the screenshot, both sides acknowledge that a warning was given before hand. If the SL had a problem, he should have discussed it before hand instead of bashing the CSR. It obviously caused more problems than it solved. Furthermore, SL commands have a relatively huge range of effect. He could have backed out of the populated area and his commands still could have been useful.
None of the messages posted here has contained any information on how to productively go about to fix this. Wait, I apologize, one of the messages had a suggestion to turn of the spatial chat related with SL commands. Yes, do this, by all means. And more productive thoughts instead of just berating people for doing their jobs.
Nothing will come of CSR-bashing.
Message Edited by Kaili on 07-23-2004 02:41 PM
1SpectrE1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:55 am
#174
Kaili said :
And as for spamming commands, it's possible to be a very effective Squad Leader and not shout a message in the amount of time that 1SpectrE1 is accused of doing. I know that I use my SL commands a great deal in battle and have never come across this problem. Unless 1SpectrE1 shows a combat log of how often he was using his commands, we can't know that he was using them to a reasonable limit. Overuse just clogs up the spatial screen for no added bonus. Using a command every 5 to 10 seconds (20 for Rally) will provide you with all the bonuses you need and not clutter up the screen.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
- Number one, this was not me.
- Number two, all the other professions can spam their commands without fear of getting banned and/or suspended
- Number three, don't hold a SL player character responsible for a design flaw and game mechanic issue for playing their profession.
- Number 4, there is a SS of the time, the spam was every 2 secs. The forum up command needs to be spammed if the group is taking on state changes. That is the only way to effectively immediately remove states when they are being applied by an area attack from the group you are fighting.
- Number 5, the CSR was asked OVER AND OVER what was acceptable, at one point he said once every 2 secs was ok, that is what sabrinna did, she still got banned.
- Number 6, if you use form up every 10 secs, as u suggest, your group could effectively be hindered by state effects and KD / dixzzy'd for that long, So the delay YOU suggest prevents the SL from doing their job to it's potential.
- Number 7, You call it CSR bashing, well give me an alternative. I have played SL before and Play it the same way that Sabrinna did here. I do not want to get warned / banned / suspended or anything so i think an answer is needed from the CSR's on this as to what is acceptable 100% of the time.
- Number 8, the only reasons other professions were brought up was to show that there is NO OTHER profession that has to be fearful of repercussions from using their specials in a repetitive manner except the SL'rs.
- Number 9, As far as the afk entertainers and vendor spammers that you are refeering too, some do every 30 secs. some do every 2 secs, most do an average of every 3-5 secs on Radiant!
Most importantly:
- Number 10, this is the third day that this character has been suspended now for doing nothing more than playing the game the way it was intended. There is not one player who pays to play this game that can be blamed for a desin flaw issue or game mechanic issue that results in problems in-game. However, the CSR's have punished a paying customer for doing nothing more than playing the profession the way the game allows. If the CSR's do not like the side effects that SOE has put in game with that, then change it, but don't ban an account over it.
Wheter this player was rude or not, whether this player was lippy with the CSR or not is 100% irrelevant due to the fact that was NOT the reason the suspension occured!
The CSR said she could spam durring combat up to 2 secs at one point in a city, she did that, she still got banned. Read the logs more closely if you missed any of this.
Lastly, she was accused of doing things that not only she was not doing, but are impossible to do:
-spamming commands up to 17 times a second
-lagging out a whole server zone
-making peeps go LD around her
If this happened to anyone here, they would be upset too!
CSR's - Still waiting on an answer!
Message Edited by 1SpectrE1 on 07-23-2004 11:57 AM
1SpectrE1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:45 pm
#175
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=setandget&tp=98401&poll_id=0&category_id=19&warned=y
That one the CSR states once ever few seconds! Look next to the WP monitor bout 3/4 way down chat log.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=98435
Look at the Defenders of the flag, shows it hitting spatial every 2 seconds. Sabrinna changed the spam from the default of "Form Up SlimeBalls!" to "Defenders of the Flag" due to it being an inside guild joke.
As far as the "bot" being afk, sabrinna has 2 comps, side-by-side, she plays both at the same time, the main and the SL. We call her a "bot" cause other than for fighting, she has no real use other than some ranger skills for hunting kryats and such. If this qualifys as afk then so be it!
As far as the basshing is concerned, sabrinna was upset, yes. the reason was because there was absolutley no warning, she was immediately moved to 0.0 on naboo and disconnected from the game. She immediately re logged and got this /tell from the CSR
"Now no more spamming!" As it is detailed in the 2nd screen that I just posted.
Maybee the CSR could have been a little more professional in his handling of this. Should Sabrinna have been so rude or snipity or whatever, maybee not. But the CSR works for us, we pay his salary, our hard earned dollar that we use to play this game and bought this game with.
Look at how he initiated this contact with Sabrinna. She was not warnned over and over, then moved then warned again then kicked off line then warned then banned. She was moved, kicked, warned, CSR could not answer a question, banned!
Sabrinna's comments were never in question and never were brought up by the CSR's so IMHO the are irrelevant!
Message Edited by 1SpectrE1 on 07-23-2004 01:47 PM
Mongol48
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:57 pm
#176
Wow, 8 pages and still going. Irott, are you still taking bets?
1SpectrE1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:02 pm
#177
This needs to stay at the top, don't want the CSR's thinking we have dropped this yet, still waiting on an answer.
PanzerGR
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:53 pm
#178
If i had been warned by that CSR
I would have been banned......because I would have given he11
and then i would have called and mailed the company to death.
You are punishing players for utilizing systems YOU (SOE development team)created. That is the biggest f'ing hypocrisy I have ever heard of int his game. It was hypocrisy when SL's were beign wanred for spamming......and it is doubly so now that players ahve actually had account punishments due to it.
You (everyone) cant defend the SOE position in any way shape or form on this. THEY created the system. They had OVER A YEAR..........read my d@mn lips:
they had OVER A YEARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR to fix soemthing as simple as removing the /shout commands that go along with special abilities.
And NEVER even touched upon it.
Is that not clear enough for you? People are gettign in trouble for using a system that has been broken and borked and unsatisfactory..and BEEN KNOWN to be broken and unsatisfactory, for over a year. Sometimes I feel like handing peopel a shotgun and asking them to do me a favor. i really do. This is soem of the dumbest BS ive heard of yet about this game.
As far as a 30 second delay or anything liek that. Dont even think about it. That is the WORST thing you could do and would utterly ruin this profession. Because I knwo the devs, and have no faith it would be done properly. If they added a timer, then they better be sure that teh effects are long lasting, as DiLune suggested.
Case in point: I was just tonight fighting Enraged Bull Rancors on Dathomir. I was getting mobbed up by 3 or 4 at a tiem soemtimes. They atatck with dizzy and KD moves. I was dizzy and KD'd so many times int he space fo 60 seconds I can not even BEGIN to count it. I mean it wasnt irritating enought hat I could not use my formup command while dizzy...
(and can we get TAHt fixed too? cant use any commands while under state effects......semi productive dont yout hink? its not hard at all to land at least 1 state effect on sum1 and ot really screws SL's if we cant use our commands due to it)
but it was that even if i stood up and got a heal i was just knocked down again.
With a 30 second delay there is NO WAY you could use some of the abilities anywhere near enough to make them remotely effective. even a 10 second formup would be useless. You can apply dizzy stun intimidate blind TWICE within 10 seconds......all of them. If nto faster soemtimes. SOme peopel shoot faster than I can use steadyaim repeatedly......a delay ont hatw ould be pointless, 1 accuracy boosted shot out of 10? who cares. Retreat already has a delay, but the effect of it lasts a while which makes the delay fine. As far as I know no one uses rally, no point ot it.....and boost morale doesnt need to be spammed.
A delay on our specials will kill this proffession faster than you could blink. Dont do it.
Kaili
Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:19 am
#180
Sorry, I did correct you being the Squad Leader when I posted and I fixed it earlier. I apologize for the mixup.
Let's try to work some of this out by going through your replies to my points.
1) I fixed this. Again, sorry.
2) No other profession creates verbal spam associated with their profession. Yes, this is a hinderance, but we have to live with it until it gets changed and find ways around it.
3) I hold the SL responsible not for the way they acted before the interaction with the SL, but for that which occurred after. The messages sent were counter-productive, and the use of the commands after the warning was unnecessary. If you are told that something which you are doing, however necessary you may deem it, will get you suspended, yet you continue to do it, how can you realistically argue the suspension?
4) I can't find the SS, but you say you posted it and it shows 2 seconds, so I will take your word for it.
5) If she was told that every 2 seconds was okay by the CSR, then used /formup every two seconds, then, yes, she should not have been suspended. However, the screenshots posted do not show that much of the chatlog, so I can only assume that the CSR followed anything he said.
6) I suggested 5-10 seconds, not 10, for commands. I have never personally encountered a problem with this, but that's not to say that you haven't either.
7) An alternative to CSR bashing is a constructive argument. Take time out of PvP (yes, your guild might not win the fight, or at least be hindered), but at least you might be making constructive progress as opposed to ignoring (or at least refusing to abide by) the request of the CSR.
8) Again, no other profession uses spatial chat which creates lag. It puts SLs in a unique position. Yes, this needs to be fixed.
9) I can't comment on what the spatial chat on Radiant is like, you're right. I know what it's like on Naritus, and with a few exceptions, there is reasonable spacing in between commands.
10) You've called this character a SL bot several times. I don't personally have any objections to AFK bots, but I really have to say that I don't think the use of such bots are "playing the game the way it was intended". The true intention, I'm assuming, is that there is a person controlling the actions of the character.
Thanks for replying to my comments, but I feel as though your comments were more of an attempt at a deconstruction of my argument as opposed to a helpful solution to this problem.
Vegita1585
Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:51 am
#181
wonder if anyone from sony will have th guts to face up to this mistake and apoligise
Jedi69cathat
Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:31 am
#182
This should be one of those hotfixed combat things TH has said about ASAP.
If this happened to me I would be gone from SWG forever.
Please this needs to be looked at SLs are getting the shaft way to much and need a little loven.