Smuggler Archive
Thread: The CU and YOU
IndySWG
Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:20 pm
#105
I'm kinda lost in this thread its all over the place, but let me address one of the concerns I've seen a few times (ok more than a few)
Smuggler's ability to deal damage / solo / etc in the CU:
A profession role is a specialty but not "the only thing you can do". We'll be mezzers ... ok ... but they said we'd have a moderate offensive ability as well. We'll trade defensive ability for this, but given we can "mez" ...it should be a fair trade. It's our job on test center to make sure that's the case.
I think Nick's point is that we have historical reasons to fear that the DEVs might get so focused on Mezzing that we fall short on offense. And he's right. That's not being cranky it's ... remembering.
And YES (for all those saying otherwise) ... smuggler's DO need to be able to deal damage. They need to be able to solo, they need to be able to level, and our single profession should have every chance of standing up against any other single-combat-profession-builds that others have.
But to the point of Ternque and others ... being a mezzer doesn't precludes some offensive ability. Sure, maybe it will take us longer to kill a target, and we'll do it with lower DPS ... but as long as I can Mez, and then kill (solo), we're ok. We shouldn't be the main tanks, or the main blasters, no ... but we should have a reason to be feared when holding our weapons.
The core issue is the specials and tactics that make Mezzers unique need to give us a viable way to stand up and fullfil that role even if our other profession is Musician. 
And we should be able to help that be the case if we test/provide feedback on Test Center.
And we should be able to help that be the case if we test/provide feedback on Test Center.Side note:
I'm tired of the negative stuff too .. but I'm also tired of people implying there is no reason for it. If you've been around since ground-beta like some of us ... you'd be a bit more understanding and just reply with "Yes, lets get on Test Center and make sure this is addressed."
MavriK512
Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:37 pm
#106
Just a quick post before I go eat: We already do crowd control. We have panic shot and lowblow, which temporarily remove enemies from combat. I guess this is just a Dirty Fighting revamp.
Disclaimer: I only read half of the first page, where people didn't seem to realize we already did what the documents say we are going to do.
Disclaimer: I only read half of the first page, where people didn't seem to realize we already did what the documents say we are going to do.
VegitoX
Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:44 pm
#107
I'm on the fence here, if you are a smuggler without Master Pistols like myself; then you tend to feel like this is a good enhancement. I am a Master Fencer but Irarely ever use my sword; favoring the pistol as it felt more star warsy...so in a sense (in PVE) I played the Mezz game anyway..when panic shot actually froze opponents I would use it...gain my health or distance lowblow-last ditch...rinse and repeat and FD a whole lot
. I did this while I leveled my Pistols skills.
. I did this while I leveled my Pistols skills.Yes I had the benifit of a Master Fencers dodge ability, but my offensive output was avg at best. I dont see why Novice players wont be able to level under the current system; sure it may take some time, but you guys have to keep in mind that there is a new focus on grouping...just my 4 credits.
JediArashi
Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:26 pm
#108
IndySWG wrote:
... smuggler's DO need to be able to deal damage. They need to be able to solo, they need to be able to level, and our single profession should have every chance of standing up against any other single-combat-profession-builds that others have.
My problem with this statement Indy, is that we are not a single-combat-profession-build. Never have been, never will be. We are a hybrid. Remember that we weren't included in the Combat Upgrade In Development. We were told we weren't a combat class, therefore we weren't asked our opinion.
Since we do have combat skills though, we were included. However, we are a hybrid plain and simple. We have less combat skill boxes then all the other combat professions. Therefore we have less combat capability...therefore we should lose most fights that are toe to toe with another combat profession.
JTGAlpha
Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:47 pm
#109
And MY problem with that statement is that we can do those things now, and they couldn't DE-combatify anymore without making us ID's. So if you can solo now, you'll be able to do that after the CU, I'm betting, if not be stronger. Cuz god knows we can't get any weaker.
Hetnikik
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:16 pm
#110
Hi my names Het Nikik, long time reader first time poster:
Ido agree that we have been given the shaft for the past um how many big updates have there been 14 somthing like that (sorry if the number is wrong) but yea it's been awhile. I have heard that we are losing the Spice tree. Please tell me that not true. Spice is our (if not very large) legacy in this game. We controled what people could or could not kill untill doctors came around with huge buffs that last for 3 hours. Anyway, I'm not eally sure how i feel about being "Crowd Control". Personally,I don't think group work is really the Smugglers way.If we do work in groups it just enough to get by (large groups = less money for the Smuggler) so i don't know how that will work. Smugglers get thru life using "a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
I would like to see some sort of Fake ID type thing or maybe more Slicing abilities. I do like the idea of Smugglers having Bounties on their heads (i would feel honored to have a bounty on me from Jabba), but we would need better ways of dodging bounty hunters. Anyway, that's my two cents worth and come on guys lets not hate each other thanks for listening
Satrqa Kambo
RING
Smuggler
Mentski
Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:25 pm
#111
Hetnikik wrote:
I have heard that we are losing the Spice tree. Please tell me that not true. Spice is our (if not very large) legacy in this game. We controled what people could or could not kill untill doctors came around with huge buffs that last for 3 hours.
Spice certainly isnt going away, if the rumours are to be believed, we'd be getting it from smuggling the spice for npcs and taking a bit for ourselves (this will be in the post CU smuggler revamp though)
...although i'm honestly not sure where the removal of the spice tree became some kind of fact, because its not that clear in the smuggling in concept post - it says we'd be smuggling spice for npcs, but it doesnt elaborate in the same way Greenmarines original documents did.
Message Edited by Mentski on 03-31-2005 04:26 AM
ApollyonTB
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:33 pm
#112
The Reason why people eher are complaining? They wanna "WT* pwn" everything....
Listen, we are Smugglers, not Bounty hunters, not jedi, not riflemen, ect. If you think you are gonna be 1337, or you wanna be 1337....smuggler aint for you , kthxbye
Mentski
Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:05 am
#113
Ternque01 wrote:
Of coarse, there is no "resolution" that you speak of, but there was never any "permanent" resolution in the Tom and Jerry cartoons, which is probably why we still watch them..... at least me that is
I'm more of a Road Runner fan, personally...
HOTDOG
Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:19 am
#114
Ternque01 wrote:
Personally, I can't wait to check out TC when it comes out tonight or tomorrow
Are you SERIOUS!?
Today or Tomorrow!?
For REAL!?!!?
Ternque01
Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:21 am
#115
No joke! Tiggs said that if everything goes smoothly today, it will hit TC tonight/today
Ramsey_Lanclo
Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:19 am
#116
WesBelden wrote:The thing is, saying we just delay/mez is now true of all other professions. TKA now "Just" tanks , Rifleman now "Just" deals damage. While you can make it with just one combat profession, you're not going to 1) be able to take on things at the same level as someone with two combat professions or, 2) have the same tactical options and/or be as proficient at your role as someone with two professions. The whole ethos of the profession set up (rather than the MMO class set) is that you take on several professions on the basis of what each has to offer, with each offering something different, with many complimenting each other in varying ways. This makes the system diverse and allows everyone to customise their character as they desire.
Which is all well and good, but those of use who are also (and want to be) pistoleers are going to be 100% crowd control... And while everything I'm reading about the CU has be psyched... I am concerned that I'm not going to be doing any damage as a MS/MP - Which is what I want to play.
Personally, I just don't want to own a rifle. It isn't in my... ah... my ah...
"Idiom, sir?"
IDIOM!
riotcontrol
Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:32 am
#117
WesBelden wrote:The thing is, saying we just delay/mez is now true of all other professions. TKA now "Just" tanks , Rifleman now "Just" deals damage. While you can make it with just one combat profession, you're not going to 1) be able to take on things at the same level as someone with two combat professions or, 2) have the same tactical options and/or be as proficient at your role as someone with two professions. The whole ethos of the profession set up (rather than the MMO class set) is that you take on several professions on the basis of what each has to offer, with each offering something different, with many complimenting each other in varying ways. This makes the system diverse and allows everyone to customise their character as they desire.
It also makes people with less than two combat professions totally and completely useless. In most MMORPGs with clearly defined group roles, unless you have a specific template fit for your level and role, you're simply not getting into a group. Heaven forbid that you'd actually stray from the set and defined ubertemplate - you just won't get anywhere, similar to the current 'you can't PvP unless you're a melee stacker' problem. So, I don't really see how changing the system to that one will do much good - switching combat systems instead of the promised 'balance' will just bring another set of problems and complaints present in all the other MMORPGs using a variation of this CURB combat system instead of fixing the ones we have.