Smuggler Archive
Thread: People will hate me… but here is the secret…
Intelerebel wrote:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's pretty pathetic when even a hijacked thread gets to be too boring to read.
/poke in the ribs
I know we've seen this movie like 80,000x before but still falling asleep on a message board....well really now.
RankorCity wrote:
DrevenStrobe wrote:We all came to the same conclusion. 35% is the highest we'll see.Ok...Lets turn the tables on you...
Prove to me that a 35 percent damage slice is the highest you will see...Show me concrete, bulletproof evidence that it CAN NOT be done
And I am talking about a legitimate +35, not an exploited +35
Message Edited by RankorCity on 06-11-2004 11:22 AM
So, my dad grew up in Missouri, which mean's I'm a fan of the "Show Me" mentality when it comes to facts. That being said, I'm willing to concede the point that, in the infinate number of variables that could potentially affect slicing, there could be a bug that in a microscopic proportion of slices creates that "legendary slice."
However, that being said and since it would be definately outside of the established and developed range coded into this game, using that "legendary sliced" artifact would technically constitute an exploit since it is outside the scope of what should happen based on the in-game mechanics.
Edit: i can't type today...blah blah, punctuation.
Message Edited by Orcajum on 06-11-2004 10:59 AM
DrevenStrobe wrote:
RankorCity wrote:
Yeah, that would be BRILLIANT!!! Use the powerup exploit (guessing putting a pu on the weapon, then slicing it for damage, then removing said powerup?) then post about it on the forums...
Wow...You are dense
Not dense, but I do know how that particular trick works. The system still reports the slice inthe correct range (up to 35%), but if you do the math, it will work out to be higher than the reported value...and the max damage will show a higher increase than min damage.
And it amazes me that you even attempt to feign ignorance, while at the same time accurately describing the procedure...
And I will freely admit that I know this from doing first-hand testing BEFORE it was confirmed as an exploit. Not saying that I was right to do it, but I did test it.
Dreven I got a lot of respect for you bro, but I just wanted to make one little correction to what you said.
The slicing percentage recieved from the powerup exploit is, in fact, accurate. The reason the damage numbers seem way off is because the powerup stays on the weapon and is not destroyed when the weapon is sliced. Once the powerup is either removed or used to the point of extinction, the gun will have the accurate value concurrent to the original registered percentage.
Nura wrote:from the PoV of a coder ...
pretty funny how a "$slice = random(2);" function can create so many legends and other stupid ideas.
unless some1 figures out the exact moment (should be be impossible on a cluster with multi proccessorsystems) where this procedure gets called, noone will ever be able to predict a slice type or damage.
i have no clue how so many people see something, wheres nothing to see.
why should the devs insert some kind of math there? it was intedend to be a RANDOM slice so the best idea would propebly be a "random()" function.
word. and it's probably seeded with time or something, so everyone might as well just stop guessing or start hacking.
SaraeItha wrote:You can predict slice types and even (to some degree) percentages. We do already have a system in game where we can choose our slice with a little bit of risk of being wrong. (I belive it was always there) We also spend more resources to do this: (wuks, clamps, knives, survival knives)
The false analogy the mathamaticians make is in their stated assumption:
"Because true randomness adhears to the law of averages and because the slicing system adhears to the law of averages, then the slicing system is truly random. "
Anyone who really looks at this argument see’s the fallacy. This would not be true if the system had patterns and was made to look random. How would you make it appear random? Make it follow the law of averages. How could you make it predictable? Add patterns… pretty simple stuff folks.
That statement the mathematicians are making is a false analogy which is one of the more common errors in inductive reasoning. All laws have exceptions and the devs exploited it. (Devs are exploiters!!!!)
Mathematicians are generally experts in deductive reasoning, so are programmers. They are easily fooled by inductive leaps such as this. Mathemiticians and scientists are more suited for studying things which come from nature and are truly chaotic. They are easily fooled by a system which is made to simulate nature.
As a matter of fact, the mathemeticians produced their own evidence to support the opposition. The opposition, the REAL smugglers had a hunch. They are the ones who listen more to that "gut feeling" and pay attention to that little voice in side them. However, that little voice will never be enough to convice a mathematician. In many of the studies, the slice types were almost exactly the same after 100 slices. This is too perfect adhearance to the law of averages which would be more likely to happen in a rigged computer system than a system based on pure chance.
The fact is that slicing is a puzzle, a gambling sub-game invented by the developers. I and several others know the true secret not because we sat down and crunced the numbers, but because we listen to our gut instincts
That is why we do not want to invest additional time development time dumbing down all the "pick-a-slice" code so just any lame person can figure it out. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist… then again a rocket scientist probably would not make a very tood smuggler…
Oh, and you didn’t hear this from me, kid. /wink
PS: there are 35%+ weapon slices in the game… they are very, very rare. The mathematicians will tell you that they don’t exist because they have not seen one in any of their sample data. What self respecting smuggler wants to hear the odds anyway, huh?
XENO
Seriously I doubt that the devs sat down and coded in patterns =p I'm a programmer myself and for implementing the slicing part, it would be much much more simple to create an algorithm to pick either 0 or 1 randomly (determinating which slice type it would be). Imo. it sounds more likely tho that the game might pick a number between maybe 0 and 1000 for one kind of slice and 1001 and 2000 for the other kind. That gives a certain amount of randomness.
Programmers are "lazy" by nature. It's all about making it as simple as it can be done, and coding in "patterns" is definately not the way.
Logically speaking, there's a 50% chance of getting either type of slice anyways.