Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
JoarAdanNessos
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:21 pm
#1119
It should come down to very special, or specific game mechanics to determine visibility. If you fail on a mission from a Jabba choda, you loose money and Jabba faction, fail on a mission from Jabba, get severe BH visibility. That way, only the people that take the missions know the inherant risks. There are plenty of factions to work with here, be they Jabba, or any other Hutt, Valarian, and Nym, and just understanding, and taking the warning from the lesser flunkies, the further up the food chain you move, the more reprocussions you get from failed missions. That makes the game more dynamic, and much more challanging for a profession that really should be a "seat of your pants" experience from the get go.
Also, the smuggler should be able to slice BH terminals and have the ability to lower his visibility, or reward, although failure would be hard.
Items that should be super Elite, and should never be moved past an Imperial chokedown location (like starports) are:
Anything rebel (perks, flunkies in your data pad, etc)
Anything Jedi (which will become MUCH more interesting after 9 and 10)
Certain spice and maybe certain weapons (heavy weapons or demolition explosives)
TheWok
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:22 pm
#1120
ruehs wrote:
so you think that the timeline of scans should revolve around you? you do know that you are not the only player in the game and that time doesn't stop when you logout. The time in this game is dynamic as it should be, just like in real life: everything doesn't always happen at the opportune time. Like I always tell my friends SH!T happens. Get over it and move on.
Way to completely ignore the meat of my post, Bubba. You, my friend, are The Man.
The timeline of scans does not revolve around me. However, when I have two hours to play, it is not conducive to gameplay, nor is it any fun to be killed because you're carrying something that's not even really illegal. The point is not to remove any risk, but to make it more managable for those with limited playtime. Think about it. A cop isn't going to open fire on you because you run a red light. He'll simply issue you a citation and send you on your way. If you don't respond within 30 days or so, a warrant is issued for your arrest. A similar system would make infinitely more sense in this game than simply causing scanners to attack for every little offense.
But then, you would have gleaned that from my post had you actually decided to read i rather than go off because your comprehension skills are nil.
RellikCro
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:23 pm
#1121
JTGAlpha wrote:
Actually, point of clarification, we are NOT 100% PvE. The entire underworld line is based on the GCW which IS PvP (do missions and you're going to be PvP flagged).
But I agree...GM has seen the discussion, and is aware of the issue, and has seen various proposals. We can let the debate die now.
Well, with all respect to you JTGAlpha, the profession itself is purely PvE. GCW is something any profession can join into but it is not required by any profession for playing. I have done many many many missions but not a solidary single GCW mission ever. GCW is, and I respect it as such, a choice to add PvP into the game and I choose not to partake in that kind of gaming. I have nothing against GCW or those that partake init, I am glad PvP'ers have the ability to enjoy their style of play, just not for me 
So I was only commenting on the fact that the profession itself without going the GCW is soley PvE. I think, correct me if I am wrong... but you also have to join one of the two factions to get into GCW also? Which means it is not the smuggler profession giving you the PvP experience but the faction element. Again if I am wrong I apologzie upfront as I admit I do not get into the GCW.
JTGAlpha
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:26 pm
#1122
And with all due respect....You're wrong.
Just because YOU don't participate in the GCW, and thereby NOT use the Underworld Skills, doesn't negate their existance or what they do. They are PvP skills. So yeah, it's NOT 100% PvE. I don't use them either. I don't get involved in the war. But your statement is factually incorrect. IN FACT, one of my LONG standing gripes was that the Underworld line needed to be redone so as to PROVIDE useful skills for PvE smugglers and neutral smugglers.
GamerProX
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:28 pm
#1123
GreenMarine wrote:
Geevo wrote:
GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...
Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actionscan result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... "
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."
I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.
I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying"pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.
But...but....GM...I dont want a PvE Bounty Hunter, thats *my* profession =(
If you have a PvE feature, dont call it a Bounty Hunter, call it something else, just not a PvE Bounty Hunter.
HOTDOG
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:31 pm
#1124
"Did somebody say "Infamy"?
Is that referring to what I think it is?"
Kelsin Redgrave Master Smuggler, Master Gunfighter
Sort of-
After all the bickering over PvP and PvE (paticularly the little skirmish I had with Caylin about 24 hours ago) I was thinking about the "Infamy Caps" that I had pitched at your proposal some time ago.
I thought that if there was a CAP at which PvE'ers couldn't go past and PvP'ers could then GMs proposal would work- So you would do some things that would give you visibility up until a certain point and then you could do some things that would give you "over-the-cap" visibility.
But then I thought, what if you were doing things that were considered "over-the-cap" while stillunder thevisibility cap.
Finally it dawned on me to have two different lines:
"Infamy" (which is what you called"visibility" in your proposal) would earned for doing "quasi-legal" and "banned" things-
"Visibility" would be earned for doing "Highly-illegal" things.
Infamy is punishable by PvE consequence and Visibility is punishable by PvP consequence (bounties).
With this you can have a person who is smuggles plans for the rebels (highly-illegal) but never touches spices or slices weapons. They would probably end up with a bounty on their heads at some point.
Or you can be a person who only slices equipment in the back of cantinas (banned) who would at most- have to deal with a horde of npc STs/Cor Secshunting you down.
OR you could be a smuggler who sells pixie by the ton (banned) AND skims (highly-illegal) off the glitterstim (highly-illegal)deliveries you make for Jabba. This person would have both NPC security types and PC BHs trying to get them.
Then I applied the idea that I believeTernque01 had about having a choice between high and low risk smuggling missions.
All in all I think its the way to go- this way a player TRULY has total control over whether they play PvP/PvE or dabbles in both AND it is a combination of all of our ideas-
I would personally like to thank all of those (even though we did battle a couple of times) who contributed solutions and ideas for our profession- Ternque01, JTGALPHA, RellikCro, Caylin, Vampirerobot, INdySWG- all of ya- especially GM. this is what a revamp is s'posed to be about.
Player Bounties just might happen- and best of all without jipping the BHs with NPC bounty hunters.
Message Edited by HOTDOG on 06-21-200407:41 PM
Message Edited by HOTDOG on 06-21-2004 07:41 PM
SBRD0C
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:34 pm
#1125
GamerProX wrote:
GreenMarine wrote:
Geevo wrote:
GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...
Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actionscan result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... "
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."
I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.
I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying"pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.
But...but....GM...I dont want a PvE Bounty Hunter, thats *my* profession =(
If you have a PvE feature, dont call it a Bounty Hunter, call it something else, just not a PvE Bounty Hunter.
How does Vigilante Police Investigator for Hire sound? J/K Now that he has seen this thread I'm sure he wil be proposing something soon for us to further chew on.. based on his Idea's so far, I'd say that the outlook is good for something that will really. erm 'Kick Ass' as GM puts it =) He's gotta be my favorite Dev on this team.. hehehe
RellikCro
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:35 pm
#1126
JTGAlpha wrote:
And with all due respect....You're wrong.
Just because YOU don't participate in the GCW, and thereby NOT use the Underworld Skills, doesn't negate their existance or what they do. They are PvP skills. So yeah, it's NOT 100% PvE. I don't use them either. I don't get involved in the war. But your statement is factually incorrect. IN FACT, one of my LONG standing gripes was that the Underworld line needed to be redone so as to PROVIDE useful skills for PvE smugglers and neutral smugglers.
Ok sorry I see what you are saying, it has been so long since I even used that tree I had to go back and read what it did. You are correct in that, that whole tree does indeed revolved around the GCW, which is a voluntary PvP aspect of the game. Thanks for reminding me
And I agree with you, heh, it needs to add some PvE elements into it.
SBRD0C
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:37 pm
#1127
And I don't even get honorable mention? Whats up with that?? J/K
HOTDOG wrote:
Sort of-
I would personally like to thank all of those (even though we did battle a couple of times) who contributed solutions and ideas for our profession- Ternque01, JTGALPHA, RellikCro, Caylin, Vampirerobot, INdySWG- all of ya- especially GM. this is what a revamp is s'posed to be about.
Player Bounties just might happen- and best of all without jipping the BHs with NPC bounty hunters.
HOTDOG
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:43 pm
#1128
NO WAY DUDE
Let me say right now that SBRDOC is the SH!T!!!
I meant to put you at the top of that list but I was so worried about misspelling "RellikCro".
Can't ya'll just call yourselves easy names like "Tevin" and "HOTDOG"?
SBRD0C
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:49 pm
#1129
HOTDOG wrote:
NO WAY DUDE
Let me say right now that SBRDOC is the SH!T!!!
I meant to put you at the top of that list but I was so worried about misspelling "RellikCro".
Can't ya'll just call yourselves easy names like "Tevin" and "HOTDOG"?
'Doc' was taken..
He better never hope I find him either.. I'll fight him over the name 
Naquiel
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:53 pm
#1130
GreenMarine wrote:
Okay, I've read everything up to this point. I admit that I did skim through several of the posts at the core of the PvP/PvE debate. Believe me, I've heard all of the arguments on both sides before.
So here's a short summary of a few of my thoughts:
- I'm sympathetic to the views of both the PvPers and the PvEers. The raw visibility proposal probably isn't going to be a good solution on its own. Two ideas that I liked: the "infamy" suggestion and the idea of two types of h/lo missions. Actually, the infamy idea includes the two types of missions as a part of its design.
- I still like the idea of including the human BHer element. I don't want to eliminate the PvP element completely.
- A PvP death alone may not be tough enough punishment. Certainly not when compared to a PvE death.
- The devs need to be aware of possible issues with farming faction or working with BHers to farm the visibility system. I think we can solve both of them.
I'm going to think about this discussion for a bit and when I get more time, post something more in depth.
Neither side of the PvP debate is wrong...they are just very different psychological play styles. It is an issue of MMO ideology similar to real world religion. When you get into these debates try to keep a cool head. Everyone plays differently. In SWG, there is room for each of the different play styles. We can find a smuggler design that fits the requirements of being FUN, that involves RISKS, but doesn't require PvP...and at the same time includes PvP as an element.
Her you go Green Marine, this is what i posted in the BH forum and might be able to fit smugglers in since smugglers are close to jedi when it will comes up to missions.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Ok to start we will have to break down the good and the bad to player bounties and see who this will affect.
So lets look at each question followed by a possible answer. So lets start by giving an example of a possible player mission.
Example, A smuggler delivery mission. The Smuggler would search the mission boards and find one of the new high payout missions to carry sensitive material(this could be illeagle goods or very special documents for Darth Vader, just anything very important). At one point, the smuggler has 2 choices, he can take the loot and cancle the mission and get a bounty on there head, or delever the loot to the proper npc for the cash. But there could be another catch, If the smuggler is carring the goods and is searched by a storm trooper and is caught with the goods the bounty could be activated(it would depend on if the smuggler can defeat the st befor he can report the findings).
1. Most ppl dont want to be hunted, and the devs dont want something that would be considered a grief. So how do we keep it to ppl that are willing to take the chance?
Answer: Any mission that ppl want a big payout or nice item loot should go for these missions. By accepting one of there player hunted missions has to consent to a special pop up box to accept the mission. By accepting they are agreeing to be hunted if they fail/incomplete the mission.
2. We BH would like to hunt more of the player base with out the fear of being marked as a griefer.
Answer: We would be only hunting the ppl that agreed to accept the terms of the mission.
3. How will this effect the whole player base, and who should it really affect?
Answer: Anyone can take delivery missions from the tremanals, and if they want the danger they will have the choice of the terms of the mission.
4. The bounty missions we will take to hunt the bounty have to be in a reasonable time frame and worth the time and money.
Answer: The missions would have to be like the Jedi missions we can get. The mission that the mark takes has to fail or be incomplete befor the bounty will be placed on there head for us to take a mission. Once the markis incapped or killed, the bounty tef will be removed and the other outstanding bounties should be incomplete to cut down on the possible grief.
5. But what if aplayerand BH get together and exploit the bounties for money or loot?
Answer: Put a timer on BH to limit the amount of player based bounties he can have in a givin time.By having the timer it would slow down the problem to the point that they will not want to constanly want to hunt the same person over and over. The same can go for players that take the delivery mission.
6. When we get the loot to carry, how do we know its good loot or not?
Answer: Well this is where Smugglers come in. All loot will be in locked containers or special boxes. You will not know what is in the container unless you want to see a smuggler to open the container. The only way to open the container is to visit a smuggler to open it only after you deside to abort the mission and get the bounty mark on you. This will also cut down on exploiting. But having the container or box being opened befor chosing to abort the mission would be good on desiding if you want the bounty tef also(the desv can play with this part).
This is good start to player base bounties, and it would involve any profession that would chose to take the missions. Just dont make the delivery loot to good that everyone will want to always keep the loot. And dont make the missions to cheap that ppl dont want to take them.
______________________________________________________________________________________
And here is a more updated bh mission idea i gave that might work for smuggler/jedi missions that bh can get.
______________________________________________________________________________________
I have been thinking about this lately and i think i have come up with a way to have jedi missions that will help solve most of the problems we have now and make it a little more fun and GreenMarines can possibly incorproate the smuggler revamp into this to.
To start we need to address some of the problems we currently have. Namely the exploits and griefing we have been seeing.
1. Exploits. Lately we have been seeing some Jedi and BH getting together in some places and the jedi are letting the BH kill them for the bounty money. Well we know this is wrong and will hopefully be fixed soon. Plus i hope the little problem of jedi logging out and logging in will be fixed, but i have a solution for both and i hope will be reasonable.
2. Griefing. Griefing is a very bad thing in games especialy in MMOrpg's, and i know the devs are always looking for ways to keep ppl from griefing. Like one we are seeing now with the jedi missions is where some ppl are useing the friend list to constantly hunt down a specific jedi over and over. Or that by having a jedi name on the friend list, manyBH seem to pick the online jedi that happen to be online and they go hunt them (well this is not a grief per say but is close enough that its causing a problem like a grief). So i even have a solution for this to and you will see it in a mission example below.
Well the 2 main problems above really need to be fixed or eliminated from the jedi bounty missions. So here is an example that would hopefully work and be a little more fun.
EXAMPLE: A BH would go out and and deside to get a jedi mission so when he goes to the BH terminal he would choose one of the jedi bounties, but at this time he will NOT know the name of his bounty. The name will be the name of the spynet operator he needs to get the information from on the jedi he will be hunting.
(You see having the jedi's name on the terminals is acctuly bad, and some griefing BH will pick out spacific jedi to hunt they know would be easy to kill. I know we dont want the lable of a griefer and the devs dont want it ether, so...). We bh will go to the special spynet op, to pick up the Bio sig and the name of the jedi at that time. (The reason to get the name at the spynet op will one be randomised so BH cant spacificly grief a spacific jedi, and this would be a good time for the system to make a check on the jedi to make sure there online for us to hunt. We BH hate to waste time hunting jedi that are not there.) Also by going to the spynet op the mission system can check to see what lvl the jedi is at and how much visability the jedihas produced. A low lvl jedi will produce one mission for a BH to pick up so we wont have mass BH hunting one poor unlucky low lvl jedi. But the higher lvl jedi will have more missions out on there head, but not to many to for griefing pruposes. Kind of a scale of 1-5 marker system.
The next part of the mission is almost the same as we do now. We will use our seekers and hunt down our mark, but there is something different when it comes up to the mark and what they can and cant do. When jedi get they name passed onto the BH from the spynet op,a timer should be turned on that will last for 30mins. This timer will be in effect to keep them from logging out for the time they have the tef. If they hide well enough or survive the hunt the tef will be removed and the missions will be incomplete. (The thing about the timer is to keep jedi from exploiting the system by logging off and back on to trick the system on thinking there offline). And the rest of the mission is normal. We BH will ether win or lose the fight.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Sometimes the devs will have to step in to make things more fun by taking out some parts that will be concidered a grief. The things i posted above can also include smugglers into the fun for BH to hunt. And another reason im posting this is because us BH really havent seen anygood fix to the mission waypoint problems and we know you can fix us to at the same time you help the smugglers. So i hope you dont mind a view from the BH end.
Message Edited by Naquiel on 06-21-2004 07:59 PM
SBRD0C
Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:58 pm
#1131
A little Extra insight...
Having the smuggler mission cargo in 'locked containers' as mentioned wil save our novices from having to buy the ransomed Containers.. another good plus.... Still would think it cool if The moverd terminals to Novice and containers to Slicing 1.. But that will be another thread methinks