Smuggler Archive

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HOTDOG wrote:

I was so excited by GMs first post here that I created a character on Starsider to level up as a BH. Starsider is the unofficial RP server isn't it?

Now my only problemis deciding what to take along side BH to better help me hunt you when you get outta lineDoc!

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Starsider RP? when did that happen? theres as much spamming there as anywhere else..

you could always try ranger to assist hunting the PC Area track will probly help, its what I'm trying on Eclipse for my hunter .. on the other hand you'd better hope you get the jump on your target with BHs low defenses...

Anyway, my plan for smuggler traveling for moving highly illegal items was not that you give the item to the smuggler, but the smuggler summons a shuttle that takes you to the planet. Similar to Wiz/Druid ports in EQ. The smuggler happens to know a buddy who helps him out by transporting him around.

There is a design for this that will be discussed later...and I think it still fits continuity and the concept of "smuggler."

At its core, though, its a really simple idea and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. No trading an item and so forth.

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Hey GM,

I like this idea A LOT, this solves almost all of the problems we've had about figuring out how to do "player smuggling". Awesome work. The Pvp vs. Pve argument, I can see both sides, and think both can be appeased with the two different smuggling mission types. I really like the idea of infamy and having something like a "10 most wanted" on each galaxy. I haven't posted here because I feel like such an uncreative *(%^ when I see all these wonderful ideas and really don't want to bog down the discussion. I have, however, been a smuggler in this game for a very long time. Even though I know these changes are still a long way off and not even solid yet, I want you to know that your work is highly appreciated and I am very pleased with everything I've seen thus far. As far as new spices, yes, I want Glitterstim, death sticks, etc. etc. I want a Bounty Hunter tracking me down because I just skimmed 50 crates of spice from Jabba. First and foremost, I want everybody who plays this profession, especially those that have been doing it for as long as me or longer, to really enjoy the changes, to have the non-Pvp option if they want, or get hunted if they....want? lol, takes all kinds......and my kind want to be hunted for the illegal things we do.....hehe, masochists, gotta love 'em.... If you've actually read this, thanks for your time, Greenmarine, and know that it is most appreciated.

/salute

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GreenMarine wrote:

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

Because PvP costs you time. Time to find a doctor *again* to get buffed. To wait in line for that same doctor. And then to wait for the shuttle *again* to get to wherever you were going in the first place. Up to 30 minutes of time for someone who can play 2 hours per night, 2 nights per week is a significant impact, even if his armor won't degrade in the death.

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I don't consider this a valid argument against PvP. Those are the penalties for dying, not the penalties for PvP. Most PvEers are saying "I don't mind a penalty that might involve my death, but I don't want to die to another player."

The reason players do not like PvP is that

1. PvP is harder. This isn't a major reason, but it is true.


2. PvP involves emotions. Sometimes nasty ones. Revenge, anger, and so forth.


3. PvP approximates murder. Some players aren't comfortable with that.


4. PvP is unpredictable. It involves a different skill set from PvE (Although its a subset of PvE).

I believe 2 & 3 to be the main reasons. You'll see players saying they want PvE bounty hunters to come after them, but not players. The penalty for failure is nearly the same. The loss of time is invariant.

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Actually I would think it is #4 as PvP in almost every MMORPG out there is almost entirely based on having the cookie-cutter flavor of the month class or skills combo and weapon set at your disposal. For players who do not have the time or who are not willing to change their class or character to keep up with the changes to the game that make the cookie-cutter flavor of the month change will simply not survive longer than it take to clickthe left mouse button twice. And if I'm entirely wrong, tell me why there aren't a slew of dedicated pistoleer or smuggler PvPers...

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Decadre wrote:

Actually I would think it is #4 as PvP in almost every MMORPG out there is almost entirely based on having the cookie-cutter flavor of the month class or skills combo and weapon set at your disposal. For players who do not have the time or who are not willing to change their class or character to keep up with the changes to the game that make the cookie-cutter flavor of the month change will simply not survive longer than it take to clickthe left mouse button twice. And if I'm entirely wrong, tell me why there aren't a slew of dedicated pistoleer or smuggler PvPers...

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Not to call you wrong or anything... but my PvP template is Master Smuggler, Pistoleer 0044, and Master Droid Engineer... not exactly the most effective I'd say, but still effective enough for my purposes.

PvP Is not always 1v1.. team vs. team fighting is honestly the most fun I've ever had in game. People don't consider Squad Leaders to be that effective either, but put them in charge of a group and lookout.. they got lots of usefull little things that can turn the tide..

Of course all that dies as soon as the CMs come out and kill everyone in 2 seconds flat...(really hoping that changes soon)

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GreenMarine wrote:

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Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?

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I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another playercan behumiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.

The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.

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Message Edited by Decadre on 06-21-2004 08:31 PM

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Decadre wrote:

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GreenMarine wrote:

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Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?

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I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another playercan behumiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.

The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.

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I disagree vehemently and agree all in one.

Dedicated and successful PvPers will take any and all skills that give them the utmost advantage in PvP. I quite affirmly believe that most peoplechoose some professions and stick with it for whatever reason, mostly astestic reasons or to get the most out of the profession. This puts them at a distinct disadvantage to those dedicated PvPers, and THEY know it.

So Iagree about the emotions point that you make. However,I think the "forced PvP" thing is very valid as most players know that they are at a very distinct disadvantage to dedicated PvPers, they understand that they are, and they make every concerted effort to avoid PvP.Any instance that is added to the game that can make them have to be open to PvP, is indeed FORCING them to PvP...

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Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-21-2004 10:30 PM

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GreenMarine wrote:

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RhettSarlin wrote:

glitterstim is found ONE place in the galaxy, on kessel. you want to potentially make it CRAFTABLE? i know it might be good for the player economy, but it SUCKS for continuity!

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Chill out. It was an example. Instead of glitterstim insert "blah blah random spice X". If glitterstim is ever included, I'm sure we can find a way to make it fit with continuity.

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lol, it wasnt a flame or anything there man, we're cool here . guess i sounded a tad bit more passionate than i meant to. continuity is just a big thing to me, i'd rather have things be as correct as possible in something like this. the more accurate stuff is the better the star wars feel, which is one of the main reasons to play . as someone else mentioned, if all you're doing is making the game "fun" without it being accurate for star wars, then you're just making a futuristic game that people like playing, might as well stick with everquest or some such.

just felt it necessary to make sure my position on such things was brought up, since i hadnt seen anyone else notice that particular. i did figure it was probably just an example, but it was one that brought up a big flashing stopsign in my head . cant always tell when a dev says something like that if it has nothing to do with what's coming up or if its going to be implemented in the next publish. i'd have the same reaction(and have had the same reaction) to any of a couple hundred different things....

if crafting glitterstim was, like, refining the raw product, that would be just fine . it would be awesome if smugglers could smuggle the finished product as well, but maybe have it so that smugglers could potentially make glitterstim more effective through experimentation and whatnot....not that you're necessarily even putting glitterstim in the game of course . but it would absolutely rock....as long as it was done well

Rhett

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RogueCloudwalker wrote:

First off, I like this thread, its near and dear to my heart. Thanks for doing this GreenMarine.

But lets be honest here. Anything short of PVP Player Bounties just won't work right. With an AI NPC BH hunting me, I will never be scared. There are so many ways to win or escape its pointless. I could simply run away and it will never follow me. It would probably be able to be killed. You might as well make it invincible, allow it to teleportand give it instant one shot kills to do it justice. But then that wouldn't be very fun or Star Warsy then would it? You would then have to have an army of npc BHs right by me to take me down. Thats not realistic either. I win against an NPC BH everytime. Everyone would be like me too.

Lets face it, to do anything approximating an actual BH it has to be the real deal. Besides, if every profession can opt out of being hunted by Bounty Hunters then what hope will we ever have for normal player bounties? Whats the point of BHs existing since the Jedi will soon beat them all regularly? All professions will glady say PvE and player bounties will never be. The Smugglers are the only hope for Bounty Hunters and a bounty system at this point. If its optional that I can face an NPC or a PC, I'll choose the NPC everytime because I will always win.

Some of the best solutions so far presented are offering some higher pay or great reward to intice players to at least try PC BH missions. From the posts I gather in this thread there are also going to be a regular supply of smugglers the would be always taking these types of missions. And because these types of missions allow normally hardcore PvE'ers a chance to "dabble" into the realm of PC BH without the fear of getting stuck into it you might also be suprised by how many might just try it out.

But the discussion on whether or not both styles of play are going to be in the game is a done deal and stated so by GM jsut a few posts back. It is now the time to start hammering out good solutions and providing GM feedback with a well balanced system that would do the trick.

With a PC Bounty Hunter after me, I would actually be scared. I would plot carefully how I travel, where I travel and who I'm with. It would be a fun cat and mouse game for the both of us. It would be an honest to God smuggler experience. I would have to hide in dark corners of the galaxy because I know the BH can find me and take me out. My real question is, how can you be a Smuggler but want to take all the danger and glamour out of it? I mean, sheesh, I would jack every shipment for myself and never fear the NPC BH. It has to be PC Bounty Hunters or bounties are a joke.

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GreenMarine wrote:

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

Here is a little programming (Im using Java as the example, since thats the language I use most) You have these things called classes that are chunks of programming.

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Funny you mention that, our gameplay code is written in Java.

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i couldnt imagin the amount of code to run a game like this....i think i would get lost just reading the 1st page of code btw i am a programmer my self or at least studing to become one

btw it would be fun to see the code though