Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
HOTDOG wrote:
Greenmarine wrote:
"The devs need to be aware of possible issues with farming faction or working with BHers to farm the visibility system. I think we can solve both of them."
What did ya think of this as a deterent?
Because there is nothing stopping a Smuggler and a BH from exploiting the system and splitting the cash.
Here's my idea:
If a player (any player since under GMs proposal anyone can earn visibility) dies at the hand of a BH due to a bounty then they are not allowed to participate in illegal activites for 1 online hour.
That means you cannont:
equip sliced weapons/armor
use spice
slice weapons
slice terminals
Etc. Etc.
You will get the "Can't do that now..." message until you have spent 60 minutes online, contrabrand free.
I think that is a pretty big punishment- I mean, how much money can you make slicing weapons for an hour?
+ how about something that says "A BH can only kill a player once every 24 hours..." (although another BH can)
We could also have a delay between crime/bounty (random ... 1 -36 hours) ... nobody will wait around wondering when the bounty will show up (watch someone prove me wrong)
"I want the best, super cool everything, with no risk and no penalty"
I've seen this for months in the jedi system, and the same sortof debate is being fought over here with the smuggler system....
The most reasonable solution is to leave it up to the players... if your willing to take the risk of stealing some items for yourself to sell or whatever, then at some point there should be a penalty... and why not allow that penalty be pvp content for the bounty hunter class, thus taking on 2 problems at once....
just like the gcw(where if you don't want to be involved you can be neutral), just like the old jedi system(if you don't want to be hunted, don't use force powers), players should be given a choice.... although in my opinion the development team has broken it's back trying to make sure that players don't have to interact with other players if they don't want to...
if you want to be a smuggler and not be hunted, then don't do things to increase visibility...
if you want to use illegal items(like sliced items, spice, whatever), then you do so at the risk of being hunted...
this might even be a great way to lower the "I always have the best of the best" attitude that a lot of players have... well if you really do have the best of the best... you do so at a risk of being hunted down for it...
what players are going to have to realize is that this isn't "forced pvp".. it's a choice you make.. to use spice.. to use sliced weapons.. to slice armor... and a choice that hopefully everyone will have the chance to make...
I'm tired of people thinking this is a one player adventure game....
MonroeThanes wrote:has the problem been adressed that if you NEED a smuggler to move an item from point A to point B, what is to keep the smuggler from stealing the item?
Smugglers do not steal items that are traded to them to slice, even when doing so could be incredibly lucrative, because then they would get a bad reputation and would have no business ever again.
Smugglers stealing items isn't an issue now, and it won't be if player-to-player smuggling of contraband was implemented (please allow player-to-player smuggling - it would be very Star Wars and very fun!)
GreenMarine wrote:
Geevo wrote:
GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...
Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actionscan result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... "
"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."
I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.
I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying"pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.
One good way to implement ideas like this would be to make the missions that could give you PvP Bounties more rewarding that the PvE ones. That way, even those who would normally be against PvP might be enticed into risking a PvP encounter because they just can't pass up that better reward.
TroThorns wrote:
GreenMarine wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another player can be humiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.Some people just don't pay attention in this game and don't want to unexpectedly die. It is annoying to get engaged in combat unforeseeably. There will be griefing. There are a million other reasons people don't want forced PvP (which is not incidiary, but is accurate to describe the system you suggested).
Also, people don't die in PvE in this game.... ever........ Put on a full suit of armor get fully buffed and try to get killed - it is almost impossible.....
So what you are saying is that people do not want to die ever, and currently at least if you have buffs and armor you do not die anyway.
So basically you are saying that combat is perfect, no changes are needed and they can just forget the combat balance?
That is the way I read your post...
Taking risks is fun for a lot of people. If smuggler becomes a risky profession then that is great. Right now a smuggler is no more risky than master artisan. My impression from the smugglers at fan fest is that they find that intolerable and they want a lot more risk. How that risk is implemented is the topic for this dicussion.
Perhaps smuggler will become a profession for the smart and resourceful players that are willing to be on the loosing end of a heads up fight in exchange for greater potential rewards.
I might actually log in and play this game once and a while if there was a profession as interesting as smuggler could be.
To add to the discussion, as a PvE'er in SWG I think that side is getting a little too wound up. Many of GM's ideas (with some refinement he has already recieved from the community) would add a lot of much needed conflict and drama to this game that is sorely lacking. He is right too, a primary difference between PvP death and PvE death is emotion.
I am rambling but I think that if any one feeling should come from playing a smuggler, it is that of uncertainty. Without that the profession is simply too bland and not worthy of the title.
Message Edited by Betatoxin on 06-21-2004 05:24 PM
cheserna wrote:
I'm really sick of this pvp debate that most carebears are forcing on the development team... and in my very closed eyes I see really only this opinion from people who complain...
And im sick of the arrogance ofPvPres that think that there is only one true risk or penalty, and thats PvP.
"I want the best, super cool everything, with no risk and no penalty"
More like "I want the best, super cool everything, withlots of PvErisk and no PvP"
I've seen this for months in the jedi system, and the same sortof debate is being fought over here with the smuggler system....
The most reasonable solution is to leave it up to the players... if your willing to take the risk of stealing some items for yourself to sell or whatever, then at some point there should be a penalty... and why not allow that penalty be pvp content for the bounty hunter class, thus taking on 2 problems at once....
just like the gcw(where if you don't want to be involved you can be neutral), just like the old jedi system(if you don't want to be hunted, don't use force powers), players should be given a choice.... although in my opinion the development team has broken it's back trying to make sure that players don't have to interact with other players if they don't want to...
if you want to be a smuggler and not be hunted, then don't do things to increase visibility...
if you want to use illegal items(like sliced items, spice, whatever), then you do so at the risk of being hunted...
this might even be a great way to lower the "I always have the best of the best" attitude that a lot of players have... well if you really do have the best of the best... you do so at a risk of being hunted down for it...
what players are going to have to realize is that this isn't "forced pvp".. it's a choice you make.. to use spice.. to use sliced weapons.. to slice armor... and a choice that hopefully everyone will have the chance to make...
I'm tired of people thinking this is a one player adventure game....
And Im tired of thePvPers that keep thinking that unlesspeople wantcan kill others at will, thattheyjust want to play single player games. They keep conveniently forgetting, oroutright contemptuosly dissmissing the fact that most players like toplay together cooperativly, instead of trying to kill each other.
GreenMarine wrote:
[insert categories of legality that the board recognized as illegal HTML. Reference the first post of this thread by GreenMarine]
Message Edited by TheWok on 06-21-2004 05:29 PM
silversaber wrote:
cheserna wrote:
I'm really sick of this pvp debate that most carebears are forcing on the development team... and in my very closed eyes I see really only this opinion from people who complain...
And im sick of the arrogance ofPvPres that think that there is only one true risk or penalty, and thats PvP.
"I want the best, super cool everything, with no risk and no penalty"
More like "I want the best, super cool everything, withlots of PvErisk and no PvP"
I've seen this for months in the jedi system, and the same sortof debate is being fought over here with the smuggler system....
The most reasonable solution is to leave it up to the players... if your willing to take the risk of stealing some items for yourself to sell or whatever, then at some point there should be a penalty... and why not allow that penalty be pvp content for the bounty hunter class, thus taking on 2 problems at once....
just like the gcw(where if you don't want to be involved you can be neutral), just like the old jedi system(if you don't want to be hunted, don't use force powers), players should be given a choice.... although in my opinion the development team has broken it's back trying to make sure that players don't have to interact with other players if they don't want to...
if you want to be a smuggler and not be hunted, then don't do things to increase visibility...
if you want to use illegal items(like sliced items, spice, whatever), then you do so at the risk of being hunted...
this might even be a great way to lower the "I always have the best of the best" attitude that a lot of players have... well if you really do have the best of the best... you do so at a risk of being hunted down for it...
what players are going to have to realize is that this isn't "forced pvp".. it's a choice you make.. to use spice.. to use sliced weapons.. to slice armor... and a choice that hopefully everyone will have the chance to make...
I'm tired of people thinking this is a one player adventure game....
And Im tired of thePvPers that keep thinking that unlesspeople wantcan kill others at will, thattheyjust want to play single player games. They keep conveniently forgetting, oroutright contemptuosly dissmissing the fact that most players like toplay together cooperativly, instead of trying to kill each other.
Werd....
so you think that the timeline of scans should revolve around you? you do know that you are not the only player in the game and that time doesn't stop when you logout. The time in this game is dynamic as it should be, just like in real life: everything doesn't always happen at the opportune time. Like I always tell my friends SH!T happens. Get over it and move on.
TheWok wrote:
GreenMarine wrote:
[insert categories of legality that the board recognized as illegal HTML. Reference the first post of this thread by GreenMarine]
One thing I don't really care for is all the attacking. For one, it would suck if I'm on my way to Endor to meet up with a group and I end up having to go get new buffs because I got scanned at an inopportune time. However, I don't think there should be no penalties for carrying illegal items.
What I recommend is a fine system that allows fines to be built up over time. For instance, under GM's system above, if you're caught with a quasi-legal spice (thrusterhead maybe), you are attacked. According to the in-game lore, the ONLY current spices that are banned or outright illegal are muon gold and scramjet. What I recommend is the following:
Quasi-legal items result in a small fine. Not too much, but not too little either. It should sting a bit, but not hurt financially. The fine is not paid immediately, but the player must travel to an NPC town (maybe even just capitols) and find an Imperial Desk Clerk to clear up the fine.
Banned items will result in stiff fines and a small amount of visibility. Again, the fines are paid at a desk clerk in an NPC city.
Highly illegal items are as above--attackes, high visibility, etc.
Fines can go so long without being paid before a warrant is put out for you. Since there is no incarceration, a "warrant" would put a flag on your character that would be checked during scanning. If a warrant is found, the scanning team will attack. Death removes the warrant and pays the fines automatically. Surviving adds visibility.
Visibility would go to the BH system. When a certain amount of visibility is reached, the Empire (or whoever) puts out a bounty for you. Death clears the bounty (and automatically pays the fines owed, if any). Killing the BH adds visibility. Visibility is sort of an "infamy" system in itself. High visibility means a high frequency of breaking Imperial law. Visibility should decay over time. The goal is to send BHs after repeat offenders--not the recreational spice user (unless that spice is on the "banned" list).
Smugglers will have the skill at Slicing I to slice in to a bounty terminal to check on visibility and warrants. Warrants and bounties can both be removed, resetting visibility and all fines up to that point. The more visibility and fines accrued, the tougher the job. Detection of the smuggler causes a bounty to be placed on his/her head at maximum visibility AND a warrant is issued for the smuggler. At this point, it is wise for the smuggler to lay low for a while. At this point, we could add in the false ID skill for scanning checkpoints to fool the NPCs for a while.
It's really a small change to the overall system (though I have no doubt it's somewhat more complicated to code), but I think it adds a decent "realism" factor to the game. Since I don't think Stormtroopers have "kill all criminals on sight" in their job description, fines make more sense and are more internally consistent to the game world.
DiscoJason wrote:
GreenMarine wrote:
Geevo wrote:GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actions can result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... ""Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.
I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying "pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.
One good way to implement ideas like this would be to make the missions that could give you PvP Bounties more rewarding that the PvE ones. That way, even those who would normally be against PvP might be enticed into risking a PvP encounter because they just can't pass up that better reward.
I think that this is a key concept to introduce into SWG. That is risk, the more risk you take the greater the rewards. As GM pointed out of course PvP death is not actually any more damaging than PvE, in fact in the current system since there is no PvP decay is actually a lot less damaging. However it is potentially a lot more costly emotionally.
I think a play style that takes the riskier more unpredictable road of the hunted smuggler running from the law and not being able to trust anyone is compeling and dramatic.
I think the potential for everyone involved is huge if there was actually such a profession as a smuggler with all that implies.
Shel DuWar - Master Smuggler - Starsider
Wravage DoWar - Bounty Hunter - Bria
GreenMarine wrote:
MonroeThanes wrote:
has the problem been adressed that if you NEED a smuggler to move an item from point A to point B, what is to keep the smuggler from stealing the item? it would have to be somethingso pointless that no one need carry it or so crucial that everyone has to get some smuggling ability or there has to be checks placed on the system somehow, the dev team is a creative bunch but if i have to hire someone to move an item i want to be sure that it will get there.
We should keep this a seperate discussion, because the travel stuff was going to be a part of the underworld debate. Someone already pointed out that there is a lot to discuss with contraband alone.
Anyway, my plan for smuggler traveling for moving highly illegal items was not that you give the item to the smuggler, but the smuggler summons a shuttle that takes you to the planet. Similar to Wiz/Druid ports in EQ. The smuggler happens to know a buddy who helps him out by transporting him around.
There is a design for this that will be discussed later...and I think it still fits continuity and the concept of "smuggler."
At its core, though, its a really simple idea and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. No trading an item and so forth.
Also, the current contraband system does not even require trading as anyone grouped with and near a smuggler gains his bonus to scan evasion.