Smuggler Archive

One possibility to help mitigate lag at checkpoints would be to have some "1-way" items and checkpoints. For example, a certain class of an Endorian resource is needed for an item--but it can't be taken off endor via the starports. A checkpoint scan could be set at the Endor starports that prevent the transport of this item, or trigger a contraband seizure event. Once it's off Endor, it's past the checkpoint, and "fades into the crowd", so to speak, of the more crowded areas. Smugglers, of course, can avoid the scans and get it out off the system.

This removes the lag-inducing scans from crowded areas such as theed or coronet, but still provides a chokepoint where the item can be scanned for.

1. I'm sympathetic to the views of both the PvPers and the PvEers. The raw visibility proposal probably isn't going to be a good solution on its own. Two ideas that I liked: the "infamy" suggestion and the idea of two types of h/lo missions. Actually, the infamy idea includes the two types of missions as a part of its design.


2. I still like the idea of including the human BHer element. I don't want to eliminate the PvP element completely.


3. A PvP death alone may not be tough enough punishment. Certainly not when compared to a PvE death.


4. The devs need to be aware of possible issues with farming faction or working with BHers to farm the visibility system. I think we can solve both of them.

I'm going to think about this discussion for a bit and when I get more time, post something more in depth.

Neither side of the PvP debate is wrong...they are just very different psychological play styles. It is an issue of MMO ideology similar to real world religion. When you get into these debates try to keep a cool head. Everyone plays differently. In SWG, there is room for each of the different play styles. We can find a smuggler design that fits the requirements of being FUN, that involves RISKS, but doesn't require PvP...and at the same time includes PvP as an element.

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MonroeThanes wrote:

has the problem been adressed that if you NEED a smuggler to move an item from point A to point B, what is to keep the smuggler from stealing the item? it would have to be somethingso pointless that no one need carry it or so crucial that everyone has to get some smuggling ability or there has to be checks placed on the system somehow, the dev team is a creative bunch but if i have to hire someone to move an item i want to be sure that it will get there.

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We should keep this a seperate discussion, because the travel stuff was going to be a part of the underworld debate. Someone already pointed out that there is a lot to discuss with contraband alone.

Anyway, my plan for smuggler traveling for moving highly illegal items was not that you give the item to the smuggler, but the smuggler summons a shuttle that takes you to the planet. Similar to Wiz/Druid ports in EQ. The smuggler happens to know a buddy who helps him out by transporting him around.

There is a design for this that will be discussed later...and I think it still fits continuity and the concept of "smuggler."

At its core, though, its a really simple idea and I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. No trading an item and so forth.

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Geevo wrote:

GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...

Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actionscan result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)

"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... "

"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."

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I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.

I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying"pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.

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GreenMarine wrote:

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

Because PvP costs you time. Time to find a doctor *again* to get buffed. To wait in line for that same doctor. And then to wait for the shuttle *again* to get to wherever you were going in the first place. Up to 30 minutes of time for someone who can play 2 hours per night, 2 nights per week is a significant impact, even if his armor won't degrade in the death.

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I don't consider this a valid argument against PvP. Those are the penalties for dying, not the penalties for PvP. Most PvEers are saying "I don't mind a penalty that might involve my death, but I don't want to die to another player."

The reason players do not like PvP is that

1. PvP is harder. This isn't a major reason, but it is true.


2. PvP involves emotions. Sometimes nasty ones. Revenge, anger, and so forth.


3. PvP approximates murder. Some players aren't comfortable with that.


4. PvP is unpredictable. It involves a different skill set from PvE (Although its a subset of PvE).

I believe 2 & 3 to be the main reasons. You'll see players saying they want PvE bounty hunters to come after them, but not players. The penalty for failure is nearly the same. The loss of time is invariant.

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If 2 and 3 are the main problems then solve them by using capture bounties.

The player states if they want to be pvp'ed or pve'ed in thier profile. If PvP any bounties on them are automatically death bounties as is the case with jedi now. If PvE allow live captures.

Live captures would work by the player who has been captured being sent to a relevant poi. If the bounty was placed by Jabba insta transport them to Jabba's palace &If it was an imp bounty insta transport them to the Dathomir prison or another imperial prision facility. If time is the penalty for PvP let travel time (inconvience) be the penalty for being caughtnot player vs player death.

Once at the poi you could try and bargin with Jabba, for example, to work off the debt and you would have toaquire a certain amount of Jabba faction or you could choose death and either be thrown to the rancor or the sarlacc pit. At imperial poi's you could bribe your way out or use your skills to break out of the facility (Bit of immersion for you there )

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GreenMarine wrote:

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Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?

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I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another playercan behumiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.

The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.

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Some people just don't pay attention in this game and don't want to unexpectedly die. It is annoying to get engaged in combat unforeseeably. There will be griefing. There are a million other reasons people don't want forced PvP (which is not incidiary, but is accurate to describe the system you suggested).

Also, people don't die in PvE in this game.... ever........ Put on a full suit of armor get fully buffed and try to get killed - it is almost impossible.....

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GreenMarine wrote:

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RhettSarlin wrote:

glitterstim is found ONE place in the galaxy, on kessel. you want to potentially make it CRAFTABLE? i know it might be good for the player economy, but it SUCKS for continuity!

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Chill out. It was an example. Instead of glitterstim insert "blah blah random spice X". If glitterstim is ever included, I'm sure we can find a way to make it fit with continuity.

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Actually, GM, RhettSarlin is partially wrong. And in the system you defined you could finish the crafting process of glitterstim anywhere. Glitterstim is mined on Kessel true, but, its also crafted in other places like on Yelsia. This process is described in pretty good detail in the first book of the Han Solo trilogy. So if you were delivering raw glitterstim to a factory for final processing you could hijack the shipment and craft the finished product yourself and sell it.

Glitterstim should be in the game. Its the most abundant and infamous spice in Star Wars.

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GreenMarine wrote:

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Geevo wrote:

GM ... not sure if you read it already ... what are your thoughts of being able to do the switch idea for PvP vs PvE ...

Take a mission from NPC ... if you choose PvP ... all missions / actionscan result in a PvP BH mission .... if you chose PvE ... it could result in a PvE ... (phrased in a roleplay manner)

"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have Jabba send a BH after you ... "

"Master Smuggler, you have the option for a mission that if you fail, you will have a price on your head that every bounty hunter in the galaxy will want to ..."

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I think if there is a switching mechanism it should be on the acceptance of the mission. I.E.: missions that give visibility clearly say so (i.e., you can say to Jabba, "I'm looking for something a little bit more dangerous." and Jabba says "Stupid smuggler. You'll end up dead. I do have something you can do for me, but only if you feel like risking you life. Ha ha ha ha." or whatever sounds particularly Jabbaish.

I don't like the idea of a dialog popping up saying"pick what kind of BHer you want to come after you, PvP or PvE" That breaks with immersion big time.

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The reason I was leaning towards a switch based system is because other things (eg. Contraband) can get you on the BH terminals. This way, if your most recent mission was a PvP type ... contraband would get you on the PvP BH terminal ...