Smuggler Archive
Thread: Holy Smokes, the Devs WILL change prereqs for professions...
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:32 pm
#92
Perhaps we should figure out what we are hybrids *of* first.
For me, a smuggler in this game is a hybrid of Melee and Ranged skills primarily, with a dash of crafting to show improvisation.
JTG is of the mind that we are Crafting/Combat hybrids.
The manual at the official site... though outdated in the prereqs... says that we are 'adventurersable to sellcontraband and collect spice'.
This does not imply to me that we are a crafter profession. We sellillegal serviceseasily enough, without picking up merchant. We 'Collect' spice supposedly, but we have to put up with crafting it for now... or so many of us hope.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
SpinningCloud
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:41 pm
#93
Has it yet occured to anyone that having a prereq IN GAME that actually does NOTHING for our abilities as a smuggler is a bad idea?
Sure, MAYBE business or unarmed would be useful in RL for a smuggler but I really doubt many real life smugglers went and got an MBA...
Pistol makes sence as a REQUIREMENT to me.
The others should be OPTIONAL but maybe give some bonus to part of the smuggler tree.
The Business tree as a way of having a bloody robot vendor is just plain silly. Smugglers should NOTbe hawking their wares on some automated vendor...any real law enforcement would come in, load it onto a transport and confiscate it nearly immediately anyway.
First off, a Smuggler should have as a primary skill set SMUGGLING...from point A to point B.
You can break this down into two different aspects;
a) Hired by someone else...NPC or player. No business needed for that.
b) Buy illicit goods and resell them. For that Business should give a bonus, like a lower purchase price.
Second, a Smuggler should have a defence mechanism...in a Star Wars Galaxy Pistol makes the most sense. IF you want Unarmed or TKA then have it give a bonus to defense and even a bonus to melee with pistol.
Third, and last a Smuggler needs some techie knowledge. Slicing is our tech skill. IF you want Engineering then maybe give a bonus to resources reqs to make tools. If you have Engineering then you can make tools more efficiently and use less materials perhaps.
I only see a Smuggler as a manufacturer of drugs as a very very last resort. IF you want Domestic then have that skill set allow for fewer resources in spice manufacturing. Frankly I could do with out drug lab skills completely IF I could actually SMUGGLE.
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:14 pm
#94
Well, Caylin, you actually said the magic words right there...SELL. That's what the entire Business line is for.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:17 pm
#95
JTGAlpha wrote:
Well, Caylin, you actually said the magic words right there...SELL. That's what the entire Business line is for.
That's what legitimate business is for.
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:18 pm
#96
No. We sell things. If it has a false front does that make the spice you sell there any more legal or legal looking? We sell things. Business line helps with that, illegal or legal.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:21 pm
#97
JTGAlpha wrote:
No. We sell things. If it has a false front does that make the spice you sell there any more legal or legal looking? We sell things. Business line helps with that, illegal or legal.
So you want to be a drug dealer instead of a smuggler?
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:39 pm
#98
No, but since the game already makes me the guy selling them I might as well be GOOD at it.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:13 pm
#99
Anyone watch the prohibition episode of the Simpsons?
Great material. The Americanprohibition itself is a good example in history of smuggling.
For those who did not see this episode...
The town of Springfield found out that they still had the law of prohibition in effect, so naturally everyone had to start obeying the law again. All the towns booze was buried in a secret location.
Luckily, our Hero (Homer) knew the location of the booze. He and his son go out and start to smuggle booze into the town through an elaborate scheme. They sold their contraband materialthrough the legitimate businessman... Moe... who was running a Pet Shop/Speak Easy.
I do not consider Moe a smuggler, he was the businessman. He payed Homer money to smuggle the booze to his location. Homer just wanted the money.
If I could, I would find this episode somewhere on the net and link to everyone, it's a great example of smuggling, believe it or not. He sold his services and his contraband but did not possess an ounce of real business sense.
Chavabegga
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:32 pm
#100
"Ahh alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems."
I believe thats from that episode Cay but could be wrong.
But you make a good pt about that. Smugglers transport illegal goods. They also can acquire and supply the goods but generally are not the ones selling the goods to the public.
WesBelden
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:34 pm
#101
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Anyone watch the prohibition episode of the Simpsons?
Great material. The Americanprohibition itself is a good example in history of smuggling.
For those who did not see this episode...
The town of Springfield found out that they still had the law of prohibition in effect, so naturally everyone had to start obeying the law again. All the towns booze was buried in a secret location.
Luckily, our Hero (Homer) knew the location of the booze. He and his son go out and start to smuggle booze into the town through an elaborate scheme. They sold their contraband materialthrough the legitimate businessman... Moe... who was running a Pet Shop/Speak Easy.
I do not consider Moe a smuggler, he was the businessman. He payed Homer money to smuggle the booze to his location. Homer just wanted the money.
If I could, I would find this episode somewhere on the net and link to everyone, it's a great example of smuggling, believe it or not. He sold his services and his contraband but did not possess an ounce of real business sense.
Watched, loved and laughed at it, great episode.
I don't mean to be patronising, but it really seems to me JTGAlpha that you've got your wires crossed between what the smuggler profession is now and what it is going to be.
At the moment, the game mechanics of the profession, if otherwise named as 'thug', 'drug dealer' etc. would seem to fit; we make and sell spice, we provide a slicing service and we sell faction, while combat wise, we have pistolspecials- this current profession state it seems would warrant a pistols IV + buisness IV requirement, certainly with little need or want of unarmed IV
What we're moving towards is a profession that will have us smuggling, getting ourselves in and out of scrapes and fights along the way, with smuggling being our primary skill set and occupation, with slicing, fighting and ability to talk fast and call in favours,aiding that primary role. In this roll, we take jobs from others and do what needs to be done to get those jobs done - Pure smuggler does not aquire the goods, they do not set up an infastructed business to sell the goods on, that's not what they're about. Buisness may indeed be useful for a smuggler if they want to work for themselves and not others, but that's up to them to explore and further on their own (should they have the SP to do so). This follows on that a buisness requisit is untennable, while the pistol requirements (or, if as GM wants to try and implement, a more flexible ranged requirement) and unarmed requirement seems fitting.
Uther27
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:49 pm
#102
So following this argument: one side sees smuggler asa mix of crafting/fighting and the other sees smuggler as a combat/delivery profession that happens to produce most of the stuff that they move...
I can see the very valid arguments on both sides, but at it's basest level smugglers are delivery boys that need to protect themselves. Protect themselves from their clients, friends, bosses and the authorities. As a novice what would be required to "start" smuggling? You are probably right about the double combat req, but the other choices are worse as I see it. To be honest, you'd probably want Scout/Exploration so you could quickly learn about the area you are delivering to (start figuring out the best way to leave even before you are there, that sort of thing)... defintely over business or engineering.
Does that make sense?
WesBelden
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:55 pm
#103
Uther27 wrote:
So following this argument: one side sees smuggler asa mix of crafting/fighting and the other sees smuggler as a combat/delivery profession that happens to produce most of the stuff that they move...
One of Caylin's proposals, something that I vervantly hope gets implemented, is to remove (or at least part of, I'd prefer it to be completely removed) the creation of spice - you'd go to an NPC faction factory and purchase it from them (for more info, check the link to Caylin's uber revamp article on the helpful smuggler sticky post). However, even if we are to remain making them, it would make more sense to have something more akin to crafting than the business tree, surely?
I can see the very valid arguments on both sides, but at it's basest level smugglers are delivery boys that need to protect themselves. Protect themselves from their clients, friends, bosses and the authorities. As a novice what would be required to "start" smuggling? You are probably right about the double combat req, but the other choices are worse as I see it. To be honest, you'd probably want Scout/Exploration so you could quickly learn about the area you are delivering to (start figuring out the best way to leave even before you are there, that sort of thing)... defintely over business or engineering.
Does that make sense?
Yes
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:12 pm
#104
I'm just gonna let this drop because it's not gonna get us many places. I just don't want to see the double combat pre-req continue to fluster smugglers who don't want to be Master TKA/Master Pistoleer as it has. If we are to change it, I'd just as soon not switch it to yet another Triple Threat combat combo. I find that it excludes all playtypes BUT the combat smuggler, and I think that's a shame. I'm not gonna change any minds here, sure, but I just wanted to put in the two cents of the guy who would rather smoothe talk his way out, or better, BUY his way out than pull that pistol. Too many things are decided by combat in this game and I think that's one of it's major flaws. Because the game just becomes a series of destroy missions, some PvE, some PvP. IMHO many smugglers ARE businessmen. Maybe Lando IS a master merchant/master smuggler, but I don't see why he gets penalized for that when other smuggles get to be master smugglers, master tka's AND master pistoleers. It just seems unfair and incongruous. I'm more willing to accept the Merchant/Smuggler as continuity-close than the Chow Yun Fat Smuggler. I've never seen any Smuggler portray the badassery that many of us are capable of, but there are PLENTY of smugglers who display good business sense.
Like I said, these pre-reqs are NOT just about the Smuggler profession. They are ALSO about the professions that compliment Smuggler. And ONE elite crafting profession, vs. TWO elite combat professions is disparate, and I can find more examples in continuity of one than the other.