Smuggler Archive
Thread: Holy Smokes, the Devs WILL change prereqs for professions...
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:25 pm
#79
JTGAlpha wrote:
Yeah but Scooter, how many Kung Fu Master Gunslinging Smugglers you see in the continuity, bro? You say the pre-reqs are what you need to survive. I agree. Which is why I think Bus.makes more sense than unarmed AND pistols. Because you know one to MAKE money and one to KEEP it. I just don't see brawling and pistol using being the ONLY basic tools a smuggler needs.
Han Solo had unarmed skills for sure and for certain and he was no slouch with a pistol. Lando wasn't helpless in a brawl either... lando was more on the business/crime lordside, Han was a real smuggler.Solo would cut deals, but not make a business of it. He would negotiate, but not be the means organising the whole thing, that was done by his superiors in the criminal world... like Jabba.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:26 pm
#80
Just because one can accept money for mowing the lawn, and ask for a higher price, does not mean that they are particularly gifted in business or have any inclination or talent for it.
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:31 pm
#81
And just because Han through a punch once in the movie and did a nice backstep (hell, Ican do that) doesn't make him a Master TKA master Pistoleer. And lawn boys don't have to worry about their competition shooting them in the back or getting the customer to kill them or worry about getting killed instead of paid.
DRWolfe
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:36 pm
#82
JTGAlpha wrote:And just because Han through a punch once in the movie and did a nice backstep (hell, I can do that) doesn't make him a Master TKA master Pistoleer. And lawn boys don't have to worry about their competition shooting them in the back or getting the customer to kill them or worry about getting killed instead of paid.
No, but it shows he has skill in Unarmed. The prereq is Unarmed 4, not Master TKA.
Also, if the lawn boys did have to worry about those things, you'd better believe they'd learn to shoot and fight, probably with pistols and bare fists so weapons wouldn't get in the way of doing the landscaping.
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:38 pm
#83
You also better believe they'd know the BUSINESS too, who was working with who for how much and when and why. I'm NOT arguing that smuggles shouldn't have a combat pre-req, I'm arguing for ONE combat pre-req, ONE crafting pre-req. Best of both worlds. What's so wrong about that? Smugglers are NOT the badasses of the underworld, I hate to disabuse you guys. They're the ones that operate by brain not brawn. Be quick, be quiet, be smart.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:39 pm
#84
JTGAlpha wrote:
And just because Han through a punch once in the movie and did a nice backstep (hell, Ican do that) doesn't make him a Master TKA master Pistoleer. And lawn boys don't have to worry about their competition shooting them in the back or getting the customer to kill them or worry about getting killed instead of paid.
Well, you could be surprised how vicious those lawn mower boys can be It brings a whole new meaning to staying off their 'turf'. 
It brings a whole new meaning to staying off their 'turf'. He didn't just back step, he was using a legitimate block in hand to hand combat. He knew how to handle himself without a gun. Kung-Fu is going too far, that's the TK's. This is akin to back-alley brawls, not a crouching tiger extravaganza.
DRWolfe
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:45 pm
#85
JTGAlpha wrote:You also better believe they'd know the BUSINESS too, who was working with who for how much and when and why. I'm NOT arguing that smuggles shouldn't have a combat pre-req, I'm arguing for ONE combat pre-req, ONE crafting pre-req. Best of both worlds. What's so wrong about that? Smugglers are NOT the badasses of the underworld, I hate to disabuse you guys. They're the ones that operate by brain not brawn. Be quick, be quiet, be smart.
That part of the Smuggler business is covered by the Underworld tree. It doesn't REQUIRE a knowledge of business to be told, "Take this cargo to Jabba on Tatooine, and don't get caught!" and be able to do so. Han's only attempt at business (in the films) was to try and negotiate a price to transport Obi-Wan and Luke. Otherwise (in the EU) he generally worked for someone who told him to take stuff somewhere and not get caught. No business knowledge there. If you want business knowledge, take the skills, there's enough skill points. It's just not required to be a Smuggler. However, getting out of sticky situations, preferably with unobtrusive weapons that wouldn't attract too much attention, is required to be a LIVE Smuggler.
Scoooter
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:48 pm
#86
JTGAlpha wrote:
You also better believe they'd know the BUSINESS too, who was working with who for how much and when and why. I'm NOT arguing that smuggles shouldn't have a combat pre-req, I'm arguing for ONE combat pre-req, ONE crafting pre-req. Best of both worlds. What's so wrong about that? Smugglers are NOT the badasses of the underworld, I hate to disabuse you guys. They're the ones that operate by brain not brawn. Be quick, be quiet, be smart.
The worlds definition of business or the games?
There is a difference.
What part of business. Making deals and knowing how to deal with people? That should be covered in underworld.
The Business line in artisan and the skills gained is about opening up a public business which is not what many smugglers would want to do and not a requirement for smuggling.
Their bases skills show they are not the badasses of the underworld. They are a hybrid based off of defensive combat skills. IMO the crafting requirements of smuggler do not warrant a crafting pre-req. The other hybrid crafters don't have one. Why should smugglers. In fact the only reason that I see that we have a crafting line at all is that we are the underworld profession and in this time line spice and slicing are illegal. So the tools and spics are mad by smugglers and not Artisans and Chef's.
DRWolfe
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:48 pm
#87
JTGAlpha wrote:And it's completely ignoring the Lando Calrisian side of things. It focuses entirely on the Han Solo charge, and not at all on the General Solo thinking. I made 2 million credits last night off of pure business sense. It was the most smugglerish thing I've done and I didn't draw my gun ONCE. Smuggling is NOT just about the back step (whic I can do, and I've had NO martial training) and the fast blaster. It's about the MONEY. You learn how to handle yourself to protect the money. To help you make the money. You don't make money while kicking ass. That's backwards. And that's how the pre-reqs make the profession feel and go. And while that's fine for people who want to play that way, it sucks for those of us who play the OTHER smuggler. Your version of smuggler is fine. But so's mine, and frankly, I think mine's closer to continuity. But that doesn't matter. I fail to see why the combat smuggler gets an edge and the crafter smuggler doesn't, and the guy who wants to mix both gets the shaft. Especially when this is supposed to be a crafting/combat hybrid profession.
Simple. Lando was Master Smuggler/Master Merchant. The points are there. I did it myself for a bit.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:53 pm
#89
DRWolfe wrote:
JTGAlpha wrote:
You also better believe they'd know the BUSINESS too, who was working with who for how much and when and why. I'm NOT arguing that smuggles shouldn't have a combat pre-req, I'm arguing for ONE combat pre-req, ONE crafting pre-req. Best of both worlds. What's so wrong about that? Smugglers are NOT the badasses of the underworld, I hate to disabuse you guys. They're the ones that operate by brain not brawn. Be quick, be quiet, be smart.
That part of the Smuggler business is covered by the Underworld tree. It doesn't REQUIRE a knowledge of business to be told, "Take this cargo to Jabba on Tatooine, and don't get caught!" and be able to do so. Han's only attempt at business (in the films) was to try and negotiate a price to transport Obi-Wan and Luke. Otherwise (in the EU) he generally worked for someone who told him to take stuff somewhere and not get caught. No business knowledge there. If you want business knowledge, take the skills, there's enough skill points. It's just not required to be a Smuggler. However, getting out of sticky situations, preferably with unobtrusive weapons that wouldn't attract too much attention, is required to be a LIVE Smuggler.
Spot on.
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:01 pm
#90
Yeah. I can do that too. But that leaves me with room for....uhhhhh oh yeah. Not much. 2 lines in something else. As a combat smuggler you get two elite combat professions. As a crafting smuggler you can master one and change. Maybe 3/4's if you're lucky. If you wanna mix the two, you can master one and get half of the other, or you can not master either and get 3/4's of both. But you can't master an elite combat and an elite crafter. So why does combat smugglers get the edge? Why can't hybrids (cause we are) get that edge? Or crafters? Why do just combat smugglers deserver that edge to work on things outside of the profession. Because the problem with the pre-reqs isn't just as pre-reqs but what paths they force you into later. There are a LOT of triple threat smugglers out there. Why? Because it's efficient and it's powerful and it's convenient. There are NOT a lot of Merchant Smugglers out there. Why? Because you can't be a crafting smuggler, and be good at it. God forbid! You can't be good at both, one elite from each, God Forbid! (though if you ask me, that's the most accurate representation of a smuggler you'll ever get). But let's make sure that every smuggler can be a KungFu Master (TKA Master) Gunslinger. Cuz everyone knows Chow Yun Fat's got nothing on Han Solo, because that's what the pre-reqs lead us to. Which I have no problem with that except that it blocks me and others from being good at what WE want to be good at, something that IS a part of our profession.
Again, I always thought we were a crafting, combat hybrid. But our pre-reqs make us a melee/ranged hybrid with a dash of crafting thrown in.
DRWolfe
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:15 pm
#91
I never saw Smuggler as a "Crafting Hybrid". We make spice because the Devs couldn't come up with a Smuggler-ly way of getting them in the game. None of the crafting lines will help a bit with crafting spice, so there's no need for them as prereqs. I see no in-game justification for business prereqs for the Smuggler at all. There are in-game needs for combat prereqs because a great part of the game is combat, and it is recognized that Smuggling is dangerous, so Smugglers need to know how to handle themselves more than how to run a business.
If you want a Crafting Smuggler, you can be a Crafting Smuggler. There are enough skill points to be a Master Smuggler, 1 Elite Crafting Profession, and enough left over to get one line of Merchant to 4, so you can have more vendors, better vendors, or a combination.
If you want a Crafting Smuggler, you can be a Crafting Smuggler. There are enough skill points to be a Master Smuggler, 1 Elite Crafting Profession, and enough left over to get one line of Merchant to 4, so you can have more vendors, better vendors, or a combination.