Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
SBRD0C wrote:
And when they come and complain I will tell them that it is thier choice to use Sliced weapons, There are not any PvE encounters in the game that I am aware of that require you to have the small edge that sliced weapons give...
RellikCro wrote:
This is just the start, when this gets spread to the general populace of players that all their precious weapons are now going to put them in jeopardy of being put on a PC Bounty Term you will see even a more increase of PvE'ers speak out about it. The time is better now to come up with a valid solution to meet all players then after the devs start to work and code and then find out that such a large portion of players do not like it they rip it completely out like the artisian "update" a few months ago.
Better yet I hope they DO complain, sliced weapons and armorwill be pushed to Quasi-illegal opening up more possibility for PHAT LOOT at the other end.
RellikCro wrote:
Nerj wrote:
I am all for a PVP Only Perk. Like a modifier to a To-hit against a PLAYER.
The problem is when PVE'ers are griefed and out damaged by PVPers because they have higher end equipment available to them by being open to PC bounties. If you give perks to those willing to PVP, and restrict those from PVE'ers, whats the point of being a PVE'er?
Avoidence of PvPers
Riscrition of players able to play the game in their own playstyle. Seems like PvE'ers are trying to find good solutions to this problem but "most" PvP'ers want it their way or no way.
You give perks to those willing to take on the HIGHER RISK of PvP, just like you have Perks on DWB and Corvette. Strict PvPers DO NOT have those currentlly and in order to receive them are forced to PvE. But forcing that playstyle seems to be ok for you
We need better gear for our play style just as much as you need better gear for yours.
Illegal goods will increase the possibility of PvP though and you don't want that to happen do you?
Illegal goods should increase the possiblity of consequences not necesarily PvP. Do you not want to respect your fellow players?
I show respect to my fellow player who is a Bounty Hunter, by NOT trying to take away his playstyle AND also follow what GREEN MAINE is talking about "First, we want the profession to be more fun and offer smugglers lots of options and interactivity. Second, we want the profession to feel more like what a smuggler is all about."
Since NO ONE is playing their role properly, you can hardly say one side deserves to have features from the film that the other side doesn't. PVE'ers go out in Solo Groups, Get Buffs, Spice, and Sliced Items... PVPers stack foods, and dabble in professions, wear items and use items that their faction wouldn't have access to. Sure this is a very Star Wars Idea to be attacked if you Smuggle, but the players aren't following Star Wars as it is... so you give them more opportunity for Griefing and general Harassment.
Again we are talking about Bounty Hunter PvP, restricted skill point use very little dabbling available. In addtion, all players can gain visibility more likely someone who is an uber power gamer will be on the terminals before the weaker ones will. May have Bounty Hunters going ater each other too
No, you are talking about BH PvP, we are talking about PvE and trying to find a solution tthat would be good for all players.
The solution HAS been presented, just like in PvE you can CHOOSE your dungeon to tackle. Easy dungeon low rewards -- Hard Dungeon HIGH RISKs and HIGH REWARDS
The IDEA is perfect,its the REALITY that is flawed.
Merchant with a bit of pistol is NOT going to be able to compete in combat with a Master BH. It's a no-win situation.
Merchant will have the money to pay us to remove them from the terminals. Therefore avoiding PvP. BTW, what would a Droid Engineer/Merchant be doing on the terms anyway? With Vehicles they don’t need Armor or Weapons to service their harvesters. Plus their small amount of Visibility will fade. In addition, Player Bounty Hunters may wind up with more TKM/Fencer/Doc templates to worry about. Uber competition for an MBH, how will they know until they find their mark?
This is NOT general PvP, it should be calledPvPlayerBountyHunter
No, this should be called taken advantage of professions unable to protect themselves fairly in a fight and those that have taken professions generally known to be associated with strict PvE in mind..... or griefing if you will.
Again you skirt the issue, a low combat profession will NOT have Sliced armor, weapons, and or spice. THEY HAVE NO NEED FOR THEM!!!! (Therefore no visibility, No appearance on the terminals) Combat professions do!!! As such they take a risk in PvE or PvP.
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-18-2004 01:56 PM
Larki wrote:
I feel sorry for GreenMarine sifting through this
But I have a humble and simple question coming from the MBH awesome dude I am: will MBHs be upgraded from the joke of pvp they are currently? A double master smuggler (smuggler with any other combat class) will destroy and MBH unless they ahve no idea how to PvP.
MBH needs to eb fixed before you start sending us after non-gimped professions, especially fencers and riflemen *shudders*
Hehe two words. Combat Balance
/runs for cover
Vampirerobot wrote:
I like the idea of a visibility system quite a bit. I guess I understand what Caylin is saying here, but I just have to disagree.
This is how Smugglers should be. Smugglers should have to go to great lengths to avoid trouble with the Law, and that's what it sounds like GreenMarine is going for here. Visibility is the only "currency" that is appropriate to represent the Smuggler's illegal dealings, and that currency has to be exchanged for something of value, or else it (and the illegal dealings) is valueless.
Threat of death/loss of profits is what drives Smugglers. Skilling up shouldn't be a problem under this proposal, because of the emphasis on high-end vs. low-end illegal products.
One thing that might be interesting:
For "low-end/low-visibility" infractions, have NPC Bounty Hunters come after the Smuggler. If he/she continues to increase visibility, then send them to the BH Terminals. That way there is a PvE buffer before the PvP action begins, similar to how Bounty Hunters hunt NPC marks before graduating to Player marks.
Nura wrote:
@caylin
do i get u rigth that u dont want to involve any PvP into the may upcoming smuggler system?
so instead of real players u want some NPC BHs killign you?
i hope not cause you would completly fail your task as corrospondend. many people want this PvP stuff.
we need to find a compromise and not a overall change.
SBRD0C wrote:
Nura wrote:
@caylin
do i get u rigth that u dont want to involve any PvP into the may upcoming smuggler system?
so instead of real players u want some NPC BHs killign you?
i hope not cause you would completly fail your task as corrospondend. many people want this PvP stuff.
we need to find a compromise and not a overall change.
Caylin is doing precisely what his job as correspondant requires of him: Representing the views of all of us.
He has not argued that PvP be totally taken out, he knows most of us want it, currently he is trying to represent those smugglers that don't want to be 'forced' into PvP. But trust me, I've seen him relay Ideas that he has personally hated because elements in the community supported them. When it comes to it, he will suggest to the devs whatever seems most important to us as he has always done.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Nerj wrote:
new comments
RellikCro wrote:
Nerj wrote:
I am all for a PVP Only Perk. Like a modifier to a To-hit against a PLAYER.
The problem is when PVE'ers are griefed and out damaged by PVPers because they have higher end equipment available to them by being open to PC bounties. If you give perks to those willing to PVP, and restrict those from PVE'ers, whats the point of being a PVE'er?
Avoidence of PvPers
Riscrition of players able to play the game in their own playstyle. Seems like PvE'ers are trying to find good solutions to this problem but "most" PvP'ers want it their way or no way.
You give perks to those willing to take on the HIGHER RISK of PvP, just like you have Perks on DWB and Corvette. Strict PvPers DO NOT have those currentlly and in order to receive them are forced to PvE. But forcing that playstyle seems to be ok for you
I agree higher risk should have higher payout. DWB and Corvette both have a VERY high risk of not completting them so their rewards are very high... I love them! I have yet to complete either one but I still love both of the dungeons.
I think you are still confusing risk with PvP. While I might give you that PvP has a better AI then NPC's (due to actual human behind the character) it does not necesarily auto qualify for all the best loot. I actualy find high level NPC dungeons a WHOLE lot more risky then PvP Players. I just despise PvP. But if it does help settle the whole debate and let us move on I could coincide to have SOME, but not all, highly sought out "uber" loot exclusively for the PvP side of smuggler. Perhaps the uber loot could be loot that is sought out by other PvP clases like the higher end Jedi (Or I can Jedi at all).
We need better gear for our play style just as much as you need better gear for yours.
Illegal goods will increase the possibility of PvP though and you don't want that to happen do you?
Illegal goods should increase the possiblity of consequences not necesarily PvP. Do you not want to respect your fellow players?
I show respect to my fellow player who is a Bounty Hunter, by NOT trying to take away his playstyle AND also follow what GREEN MAINE is talking about "First, we want the profession to be more fun and offer smugglers lots of options and interactivity. Second, we want the profession to feel more like what a smuggler is all about."
I have not only shown respect for my fellow BH players by trying to work a compromise that would envolve PC Bounties but also respect to all players by working on a solution that would benefit ALL players. I do not pick and choose my respect, I respect everyone.
Since NO ONE is playing their role properly, you can hardly say one side deserves to have features from the film that the other side doesn't. PVE'ers go out in Solo Groups, Get Buffs, Spice, and Sliced Items... PVPers stack foods, and dabble in professions, wear items and use items that their faction wouldn't have access to. Sure this is a very Star Wars Idea to be attacked if you Smuggle, but the players aren't following Star Wars as it is... so you give them more opportunity for Griefing and general Harassment.
Again we are talking about Bounty Hunter PvP, restricted skill point use very little dabbling available. In addtion, all players can gain visibility more likely someone who is an uber power gamer will be on the terminals before the weaker ones will. May have Bounty Hunters going ater each other too
No, you are talking about BH PvP, we are talking about PvE and trying to find a solution tthat would be good for all players.
The solution HAS been presented, just like in PvE you can CHOOSE your dungeon to tackle. Easy dungeon low rewards -- Hard Dungeon HIGH RISKs and HIGH REWARDS
Correct you can choose higher level dungeons and lower level dungeons but ALL the dungeons are still PvE. None of the dungeons are PvP, that is what the GCW has been for upto this point.
The IDEA is perfect,its the REALITY that is flawed.
Merchant with a bit of pistol is NOT going to be able to compete in combat with a Master BH. It's a no-win situation.
Merchant will have the money to pay us to remove them from the terminals. Therefore avoiding PvP. BTW, what would a Droid Engineer/Merchant be doing on the terms anyway? With Vehicles they don’t need Armor or Weapons to service their harvesters. Plus their small amount of Visibility will fade. In addition, Player Bounty Hunters may wind up with more TKM/Fencer/Doc templates to worry about. Uber competition for an MBH, how will they know until they find their mark?
This is NOT general PvP, it should be calledPvPlayerBountyHunter
No, this should be called taken advantage of professions unable to protect themselves fairly in a fight and those that have taken professions generally known to be associated with strict PvE in mind..... or griefing if you will.
Again you skirt the issue, a low combat profession will NOT have Sliced armor, weapons, and or spice. THEY HAVE NO NEED FOR THEM!!!! (Therefore no visibility, No appearance on the terminals) Combat professions do!!! As such they take a risk in PvE or PvP.
Whether they want to use them or not is really their choice, but how the consquence is handled must be balanced. It would be completely unfair for a hardcore strict PvE RP'er playing a merchant who decides they want to live a little dangerous be thrust and forced into PvP. The consequences must be balanced to their playstyle, it must be in the form of PvE. I am not thrusting you into PvE BH's, I have fought and posted everysingle time that I believe PvP'ers should get the PvP Bh's. I support that, I would like to see that... would I ever participate in it? No, but I still support it. You need to also support hardcore PvE'ers... as much as you distaste the tought of ever seeing a NPC BH go after a smuggler, hardcore PvE'ers distaste the thought of PvP just as much. Think about it.
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-18-2004 01:56 PM
JeffIncredible wrote:
Lemme make this short. Flip the tables for a moment in regards to the issues about forced PvP.
Howabout if I don't like to PvE? I'm forced to PvE if I want to level any combat (combat hybrid) professions. Ya know what I do then? Either I suck it up and play the way the game is designed, or I pick a different profession. Maybe this next part is a bit exaggerated, but just think about it. People that choose to be a Merchant, don't play their profession to sell to NPC's. Some professions are meant to require PvP interaction, whether it be in a combat or commerce respect. God help the person that wants to be a politician and wants to run a city full of NPC's, it just doesn't work that way.
I havn't read this whole thread because honestly I am not looking forward to catching up on hundreds of post because I missed a couple days. So if stuff like this has been talked about then disregard. I know we have a chance to have a hand in molding this profession into what many of us have desired. But I think the spirit of this profession requires PvP combat situations IMHO. What i'll add to that though is that there needs to be a way to balance the difficulty of those PvP interactions. My thoughts go to the Mission difficulty levels, a Master BH maybe shouldn't be drawing missions on a novice smuggler mission.
That's all I have to add right now. /shrug
You are talking about player interaction not interference. Every PvE'er I know loves the player interaction, they love the RP'ing aspect of the game, they love to talk and be social with other players. Just hardcore pve'ers want no part of PvP combat, none, zero, zilch, zippo, natta.... This game provides content for both type of players, smuggler is a starting profession and thus needs to support BOTH style of play. GCW is a strict PvP combat system designed to allow you to gain rank, get fp, and build your arsenal compltely without ever the need for PvE... BUT they also include ways to PvE to also do that.
If there was a way to allow you to work any or all professions strictly PvP style I would support it, I do not want to take your playstyle away from you, do not take mine away from me.
RellikCro wrote:
JeffIncredible wrote:
Lemme make this short. Flip the tables for a moment in regards to the issues about forced PvP.
Howabout if I don't like to PvE? I'm forced to PvE if I want to level any combat (combat hybrid) professions. Ya know what I do then? Either I suck it up and play the way the game is designed, or I pick a different profession. Maybe this next part is a bit exaggerated, but just think about it. People that choose to be a Merchant, don't play their profession to sell to NPC's. Some professions are meant to require PvP interaction, whether it be in a combat or commerce respect. God help the person that wants to be a politician and wants to run a city full of NPC's, it just doesn't work that way.
I havn't read this whole thread because honestly I am not looking forward to catching up on hundreds of post because I missed a couple days. So if stuff like this has been talked about then disregard. I know we have a chance to have a hand in molding this profession into what many of us have desired. But I think the spirit of this profession requires PvP combat situations IMHO. What i'll add to that though is that there needs to be a way to balance the difficulty of those PvP interactions. My thoughts go to the Mission difficulty levels, a Master BH maybe shouldn't be drawing missions on a novice smuggler mission.
That's all I have to add right now. /shrug
You are talking about player interaction not interference. Every PvE'er I know loves the player interaction, they love the RP'ing aspect of the game, they love to talk and be social with other players. Just hardcore pve'ers want no part of PvP combat, none, zero, zilch, zippo, natta.... This game provides content for both type of players, smuggler is a starting profession and thus needs to support BOTH style of play. GCW is a strict PvP combat system designed to allow you to gain rank, get fp, and build your arsenal compltely without ever the need for PvE... BUT they also include ways to PvE to also do that.
If there was a way to allow you to work any or all professions strictly PvP style I would support it, I do not want to take your playstyle away from you, do not take mine away from me.
What do you mean by Smuggler being a starting profession? BTW you can't be a politician or merchant (my examples) without involving other players. So there is no PvE or PvNPC way to play those profs.
JeffIncredible wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
JeffIncredible wrote:
Lemme make this short. Flip the tables for a moment in regards to the issues about forced PvP.
Howabout if I don't like to PvE? I'm forced to PvE if I want to level any combat (combat hybrid) professions. Ya know what I do then? Either I suck it up and play the way the game is designed, or I pick a different profession. Maybe this next part is a bit exaggerated, but just think about it. People that choose to be a Merchant, don't play their profession to sell to NPC's. Some professions are meant to require PvP interaction, whether it be in a combat or commerce respect. God help the person that wants to be a politician and wants to run a city full of NPC's, it just doesn't work that way.
I havn't read this whole thread because honestly I am not looking forward to catching up on hundreds of post because I missed a couple days. So if stuff like this has been talked about then disregard. I know we have a chance to have a hand in molding this profession into what many of us have desired. But I think the spirit of this profession requires PvP combat situations IMHO. What i'll add to that though is that there needs to be a way to balance the difficulty of those PvP interactions. My thoughts go to the Mission difficulty levels, a Master BH maybe shouldn't be drawing missions on a novice smuggler mission.
That's all I have to add right now. /shrug
You are talking about player interaction not interference. Every PvE'er I know loves the player interaction, they love the RP'ing aspect of the game, they love to talk and be social with other players. Just hardcore pve'ers want no part of PvP combat, none, zero, zilch, zippo, natta.... This game provides content for both type of players, smuggler is a starting profession and thus needs to support BOTH style of play. GCW is a strict PvP combat system designed to allow you to gain rank, get fp, and build your arsenal compltely without ever the need for PvE... BUT they also include ways to PvE to also do that.
If there was a way to allow you to work any or all professions strictly PvP style I would support it, I do not want to take your playstyle away from you, do not take mine away from me.
What do you mean by Smuggler being a starting profession? BTW you can't be a politician or merchant (my examples) without involving other players. So there is no PvE or PvNPC way to play those profs.
When you start the game you can become a smuggler, therefore it is a starting profession. Jedi on the other hand is not an option to get when you first start, it is an advance profession and thus I can see and understand them putting in PvP into that system. Nor do I ever need to become a Jedi (and really do not have a desire to either) to play any profession in the game which also further to convience me that the forced pvp in it is justifiable.
There is a huge difference between player vs play and player with player interaction. As a politician (which I happen to be also and mayor of a level 5 city and I also happen to be a merchant also) I have never had to combat another player, never had to kill my oponent... becuase that would be PvP. I have had to be political, I had to discuss things and put on social events but that is player WITH player interaction. Hardcore PvE'ers love PwP, that is the sole reason we play MMORPG's, what we do not like however is PvP. There is a huge different between the two.
Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-19-2004 11:22 AM
RellikCro wrote:
When you start the game you can become a smuggler, therefore it is a starting profession. Jedi on the other hand is not an option to get when you first start, it is an advance profession and thus I can see and understand them putting in PvP into that system. Nor do I ever need to become a Jedi (and really do not have a desire to either) to play any profession in the game which also further to convience me that the forced pvp in it is justifiable.