Smuggler Archive
Thread: Holy Smokes, the Devs WILL change prereqs for professions...
Sapperlight wrote:
Wes, you may want to check out the BH boards before you change templates. Right now, on the eve of the jedi flood gates opening, BH can't track jedi (broken droids) and can't kill them (no TEF). This change is a desparate, knee-jerk reaction because that profession has been nerfed and bugged into such a state of weakness that they have no chance of controlling the jedi population that will soon overwhelm us.
It's a sad state of affairs when the two most iconic professions in the game are broken yet the continuity breaking sea of jedi are the sole focus of the develpers.
Raph Koster, help!
)Message Edited by SpinningCloud on 07-01-2004 06:19 AM
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I never saw Transporter... I guess I should. I keep hearing it mentioned on these forums.
As Prereqs go...
Marksman
- Pistols - Small, easily concealed, ranged weaponry. Allows for sneak attacks, hold-out blasters and more. Sounds like a smuggler.
- Rifle - This don't fit, but hey, others want it. They are large, bulky and hard to hide in a cantina situation or when visiting your local Crime Lord.
- Carbine - See rifle, though to a lesser degree.
- Ranged - Not a bad option to represent combat experience, but it's a bit late now to change it to that. Too many builds focus on pistols and smugglers. Also realise that you would have NO WEAPON CERTS TO SPEAK OF!
Artisan
- Engineering - The tinkering ability... well lets go into this a bit. Not all smugglers were a mechanical genius. Solo knew enough to get by, but I have a feeling most smugglers didn't know a hydrospanner from a wookie. You will easily find ace pilots/smugglers who probably know jack about what they drive. All they care about is if it works or not. This prereq is not exactly representative of many smugglers.
- Business - Smugglers, moved goods from one location to another. Normally not on their own free will, but under the direction of some kind of crime boss. They didn't have to do much in the way of business. You can make a deal, without having one ounce of business sense. Not a great prereq, as I see it.
Brawler
- Unarmed - In many shady business situations, you will find yourself without a weapon. You do not go in defenseless unless you are an idiot, so knowing basic unarmed combat is a must. You should be able to rely on yourself to get out of tight situations, with or without a weapon. This screams smuggler.
- One Handed - Requires a weapon... can't just walk up to some crime lords with a rapier.
- Two Handed - Requires a weapon... can't just walk up to some crime lords with a Claymore.
- Pike - Requires a weapon... can't just walk up to some crime lords with a Pike.
At any rate, that's just how I see many of the options out there. In a strictly smuggler sense... I love our prereqs and I find them very fitting for our profession.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 06-30-2004 10:49 AM
This about suns it up IMO.
I have already said it but I will do it again.
Prereqs define the profession in what makes sense. Now people have options to take what they want.
To change the pre-req on ranged weapons to either one does not make sense to me. If you were in the underworld would you learn the fast concealable pistol or a bulky slow rifle.
Would someone in the underworld that needs to be prepared at all times and may be without a weapon carry around a pike or sword?
Now lets talk about balance.
Smuggler now can have a tripple threat, Mastering 3 combat professions. However those professions are limited in what they can do. Do you honestly think the devs will allow a tripple threat of Any Unarmed/Any Ranged/smuggler. The Master swordsman/Master Rifleman/smuggler would be known as the "I can solo anything" templates. Or the "pvp master template" of Master Fencer/Master Rifle/Master Smuggler. Also Master Rifle with the dorty fighting line would be too powerful.
A lot of this sounds to me is just people want to make 1337 templates as opposed to making choices.
We must remember pre-reqs define the professions meaning. If people want to tweak that is their thats their business but making it too wide open leads to heavy balance issues.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I never saw Transporter... I guess I should. I keep hearing it mentioned on these forums.
As Prereqs go...
*snipped out stuff to keep this compact*
Marksman
Artisan
Brawler
At any rate, that's just how I see many of the options out there. In a strictly smuggler sense... I love our prereqs and I find them very fitting for our profession.
I had an idea a while back for Smuggler pre-req's and I guess now would be a good time to bring it up again.
My idea/vision/whatever is that the Smuggler profession have semi-variable prerequisites. My idea allows us to specialize the kind of Smuggler we become with the revamp. In it the Pistols line is the only one that is required and the player must take at least one other line of skills.
Marksman: Pistols should remain a pre-req. The pistol is a staple of the Smuggler in the Star Wars universe.
Artisan:
Business: Taking this line should give bonus' to any skills offered by the Underworld tree.
Engineering: Can offer bonuses to slicing done for "mini-games/missions". (NOT to slicing weapons/armor)
Domestic Arts: Spices, of course.
Brawler: Unarmed Fighting could allow bonuses to the potential Unarmed Dirty Fighting moves we have been asking for.
This is a very open ended layout of my idea. So, what do you guys think?
Even though we're getting some great attention from GreenMarine on our future revamp (VERY future revamp), I just don't understand how a prereq change can happen in basically one day and we can't get anything at all, despite all the promises, delays, etc. Not even simple text in the Master box or even just an answer on the spice change.
I try not to be a rabble-rouser or stir up trouble, but this quick change for the Bounty Hunters, needed or not, just says terrible things to me.
Sorry 'bout the little rant there.
TommyTsunami wrote:
If Artisan is going to be added to the preq's then take out brawler, I don't want to have to spend an extra29 skill points if I don't need to. Artisan and Marksman make sense for the preq's. But with the Dev's talking about the Dirty-Infighting line, and adding melee specials, brawler will remain a preq. I think they should stay the same unless the revamp changes can justify it.
Well, if they go with my idea...
*points up* ....the smuggler will get some choices for pre-req's. I just don't know how game balanceimpacting it would be or how hard it is to implement.
JamesHighwest wrote:
Scoooter wrote:
Perhaps before you justify a different pre-reqyou should also justify why the current ones dont apply.
Well, that's fair enough. As it stands, the current pre-req's are Pistols and Unarmed. Once you get those two it's all pistols from there. Most smugglers NEVER used Unarmed again! It is quite useless.
In your post you say that Artisan doesn't fit as a pre-req for Smuggler. Well, I think it does. Business can represent the "legitimate" business the smuggler runs as a front for selling illegal goods(underworld vendor idea). Engineering can represent learning the skills to build the right tools for the job(slicing). And Domestic Arts can represent the skills learned in mixing the right ingredients together to get the result you want(spices).
Well I find the unarmed not useless at all. The defenses and added features in TK are very helpful even if you dont master it. I does fit with the type of profession smuggler is and how they would survive.
In your post you say that Artisan doesn't fit as a pre-req for Smuggler. Well, I think it does. Business can represent the "legitimate" business the smuggler runs as a front for selling illegal goods(underworld vendor idea). Engineering can represent learning the skills to build the right tools for the job(slicing). And Domestic Arts can represent the skills learned in mixing the right ingredients together to get the result you want(spices).
Well then it should be in underworld or you just take it because you want to. The pre-req's are minimum requirements. Creating a shop that is a front is really optional to how you want to play it.
Engineering you gain no additional skills, just schematics that really have nothing to do with smugglers, it just seems to me if we need mods to crafting slicing tools or slicing that should be in our slicing tree or crafting tree.
Whether you consider it useless or not I think you would agree that an underworld person would by its nature learn to fight in some unarmed fashion. Smugglers are after all not white collar criminals by nature.