Smuggler Archive
Thread: The CU and YOU
fishbrains
Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:25 am
#79
TimePalladin wrote:
im seein smuggler/pistoleers as going to be one of the hardest professions to kill
both of them are in the crowd control area so im guessin to get to you is gonna be difficult at the least...
excellent point, one I had not thought of
Ternque01
Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:41 am
#80
NickHeel wrote:
I don't want toargue with anyone so I'll say all this and you can rant and rave and do what you want, I won't care. My point is made and stands as is: I just want some ability in the Smuggler profession that can do damage on its own. If I have to pick up Pistoleer or another profession to get off the ground in my current one (Smuggler), then we're back to square one, just with a shiny new coat of wax.
I too like the crowd control role. I liked it back on January the 7th when I first learned we were "mezzers" and I saved the CU roles diagram to my hard drive. It fits us nicely. I just want us to be able to do something other than delay and run away. I don't know if that's all we'll do or not...I certainly hope that's not all but I'm just saying I'll be upset if it is. And from all intents and purposes and past history, I have a reason to be a bit worried.
And yeah, Ternque is one of the spineless ones. You wanted to call me on something, well you're up. Once Tiggs stated that we weren't going to have player based Smuggling, I expected everyone, down to the last lurker and non-forum vistor to be up in arms. I mean, this was a big deal. But you were one of the ones saying "Oh, it sucks. Whatch'ya gonna do. I'm sure we'll get it sooner or later."
I was disappointed in that and many others. This was our profession's lifeblood for 2 years. Now everyone is just "Done!" "Gimme what I can get before it gets worse." "Take our par and run to the next tee." I can't tell you how disappointed I am.
And you know, I might be a little grizzled and negative about this. It's a little unfair to our changes since I'm mostly disappointed in people like you, Ternque, and not the CU info. People that are starting to just bite their lip and accept THIS instead of going for the gold...people that settle for less. If you're going to just recline back and let it be, then get out of my way because I'm doing my damndest still to PM, chat, and post toTiggs, TH, ect(who I occassionally get a response out of using THIS) to get information and provide input on stuff.
I ain't glorifying myself one bit, but everyone wanted to know where the revamp thing stood so I asked and Tiggs told us. We were curious about player based Smuggling, I asked and now we konw the unfortunately answer. You will never, ever get a response if you don't ask the questions and you will never get what you need if you don't tell them, and keep telling them.
Well, I'm done. I guess I'm a crotchety old Smuggler who wants to fight one more good fight the way I've been doing it for what, 20 months (I've lost count)? For those of you that want to curl up and take what's coming, feel free. I'm gonna do it my way and if I go the way of EN or Solo or those other great guys that did one Hell of a job for the profession, then good for the carebears. One less Master Smuggler with an opinion...the sooner the better.
Message Edited by NickHeel on 03-30-2005 01:30 AM
Listen man, I'm done arguing this subject. I think we both know how we feel concerning the guts of what has gone down in this forum.
A very wise person once said, "There is no meaning in any kind of struggle". I like that statement, and am finding that I am agreeing with it once again. You can get things done without fighting,surprisingly oftenwith more effectiveness. It is a tragedy that we have injured eachotherin an attempt to fix the profession here, and Ican onlylook forward toa smuggler community that is capable of respecting the efforts each of our members can contribute to benefit our profession, despite how they can or do make those contributions, because our hearts and minds are all in the same place.
JediArashi
Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:52 am
#81
First of all let me say that I am a little dissapointed at the way Nick and Ternque have gone at each other here. Orca said it best, but we DO need to stick together.
As one of the potential "spineless" Nick mentioned I can understand where that comes from, andI agree to a certain extent, but calling it out here in this thread isn't all that appropriate. ihave a lot of respect for you Nick, but I hope that you can take a breath and relax a little. First thing to note is that people are going to react differently, not everyone is nor should be the irate rebel. there certainly is place for it, but we also need level heads, acceptors, sympathizers, "yes-men", contributors, facilitators, stimulators, thought-provokers, doers, movers and shakers. There is a place for all of it. I am glad that you are fired up about it, if your passionate about it, yell it out, you should...and we need that...just not from everyone.
I really don't see a reason that the whole community needs to be up in arms. Some can accept it, and that is their perogative to do so. You can't have the whole community disgruntled all of the time, because then that becomes our norm and our reputation on the forums gets tarnished. I don't want devs to think "oh well, he's a smuggler, they're all doom and gloom guys anyway, pay no attention". But when something major comes up they should be able to easily recognize that the community as a whole is upset.
I believe that we can accept what they have given us and affect change where appropriate. I think Nick's passion and protectiveness of the up-and-coming smuggler is both admirable and honorable, but we don't have all the info yet. What are the mods going to be? Where will they be in skill boxes? How will the weapon certs fall? Will we be certed for armor? These are things we need to have more info on.
If we end up getting mods that help us deal damage at the lower levels so that the progression is easier, wouldn't that satiate your desires for new smugglers? If we also get an armor cert so that we aren't sitting ducks make it easier for you to accept a lower damage output compared to other professions? If these things aren't in the right place, we can let them know through testing and get things changed there to make this better for all of us. That is where to focus our energies.
Let's get these answers before making sweeping views of an upgrade we only know half of.
Same with our "revamp" which is really only adding smuggler missions and changing slicing. We don't know the hard data yet, so let's push them in the right direction and allow them to build on a platform. Once we can test it, the nwe can get the things changed that should be.
We have been disgruntled for so long,i think some have forgotten how to be happy. It's ok to like something, and it is also ok to want to the stars and settle for the moon. They need us to push them, but not all of us. Let people choose thier own path and not label.
I'll end by thanking Nick for being passionate and fighting the good fight...now go sick 'em! 
maxtheusher
Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:59 am
#82
Here's my general response to everyone.
1. maybe it was a mistake to try and explain the new roles with mmo Standard term analogies. It helps me look at the roles though, an'd I can look past it.
2. Melee does NOT get preference over ranged. The ability to absorb/block/negate damage is tactically suited to someone fighting within 5 meters of a target. the ability to Dodge/knockdown/stun/delay/ whatever else I'm forgetting is tactically suited for fighting from a distance. They are BOTH forms of defense. One is more suited to melee distance, one to ranged distance. BH is an oddball, but I imagine they'll need the melee style defenses when hunting Jedi knights, etc.
3. Don't count the chickens before they hatch. One might be a baby alligator.
BelarrnSorak
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:10 am
#83
After reading the doc's and then reading everyones reaction. i'v come to the conclusion that some people belave smuggler to be a combat profession. i don't feel a smuggler is any more a combat profession the a "Theef" is in D&D. we play a support role and our abilites to fast talk our way out of situation can now be used to help the group. we are not tanks, we are the slimy crew that lives in the dark under the stairs. we have been given the ability to defend ourselves but not attack as it should be.
i like the new role we have in the CU it makes us an important part of the group and we also have a fighting chance alone.
remember too that our revamp is not part of the CU so don't get all mad that we don't smuggle yet. its commin.
oh and one last thing, people are all worked up over how the described our new role, a mazzer or what ever, who cares what they call it, it describes what our role is, to delay and defuse. only insted of spells we use fast talking and suprise tactics
i like the new role we have in the CU it makes us an important part of the group and we also have a fighting chance alone.
remember too that our revamp is not part of the CU so don't get all mad that we don't smuggle yet. its commin.
oh and one last thing, people are all worked up over how the described our new role, a mazzer or what ever, who cares what they call it, it describes what our role is, to delay and defuse. only insted of spells we use fast talking and suprise tactics
Jandel-Har
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:32 am
#84
well i for one am rather excited. But as was mentioned before if you think smuggler is a combat class then youre fooling yourself. I like what I see, I do I do.
maxtheusher
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:00 pm
#85
BelarrnSorak wrote:
After reading the doc's and then reading everyones reaction. i'v come to the conclusion that some people belave smuggler to be a combat profession. i don't feel a smuggler is any more a combat profession the a "Theef" is in D&D. we play a support role and our abilites to fast talk our way out of situation can now be used to help the group. we are not tanks, we are the slimy crew that lives in the dark under the stairs. we have been given the ability to defend ourselves but not attack as it should be.
i like the new role we have in the CU it makes us an important part of the group and we also have a fighting chance alone.
remember too that our revamp is not part of the CU so don't get all mad that we don't smuggle yet. its commin.
oh and one last thing, people are all worked up over how the described our new role, a mazzer or what ever, who cares what they call it, it describes what our role is, to delay and defuse. only insted of spells we use fast talking and suprise tactics
We are more offense-tuned than pistoleer, 3 is nothing to scoff at.
SpinningCloud
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:12 pm
#86
Wes; "Smugglers have mez (mesmerise) abilities and some offensive abilities; for me, this fits with the idea that Smugglers want to play dirty and rough so they can get the heck out of a situation and go deliver their cargo. "
This is all fine and dandy IF, with our lowered damage capability, we can STILL hold our own against an NPC BH coming after us OR at some time in the future a player BH.
If we are simply dead meat in a one-on-one with a BH then I fail to see how this is useful to us as SMUGGLERS.
DragonSnack
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:17 pm
#87
I don't have a clue to what a mezzer is or does.
However the explanations given keep making the skillswarcry and Intimidate jump up and down waving their little hands to get attention form me.
PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS.
If it is a mezmerizzer or hynotist Maybe the Devs resurected FD only instead of us dropping the target(s) do the FD dance for a set period of time.
'course it still could be in the BS line I mentioned earlier.
I also don't think the skills in the boxes will change that much maybe only the certs will be changing.
SpinningCloud
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:23 pm
#88
Vrond; "Your job is to prevent some of the enemy from attacking or fleeing while your group either kills your target or fights a another target while you keep your target out of action."
Again, all fine and dandy, but I want to SMUGGLE and smuggling isn't exactly a group sport if you know what I mean.
As a SMUGGLING Smuggler...and not a Smuggler on a battlefield...we MUST be able to hold our own SOLOagainst both NPC BHs and eventually payer BHs. I don't see how these changes will give us that ability.
Will BHs simply go away once we 'mez' them and run away?
Or will, once hunted, be continually hunted until we're caught and killed?
We either have to be able to run far enough that the BH gives up OR be able to go head-to-head with a BH. One OR the other.
I'd love to be shown the light but so far the only 'light' is the one they've tried to shine up our backsides.
(And I sure didn't take Nicks comment about complacency personally. though I have never been banned for some reason.)
though I have never been banned for some reason.)
HOTDOG
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:31 pm
#89
SpinningCloud wrote:
As a SMUGGLING Smuggler...and not a Smuggler on a battlefield...we MUST be able to hold our own SOLOagainst both NPC BHs and eventually payer BHs. I don't see how these changes will give us that ability.
Will BHs simply go away once we 'mez' them and run away?
Or will, once hunted, be continually hunted until we're caught and killed?
We either have to be able to run far enough that the BH gives up OR be able to go head-to-head with a BH. One OR the other.
I'd love to be shown the light but so far the only 'light' is the one they've tried to shine up our backsides.
(And I sure didn't take Nicks comment about complacency personally.
I think we will be able to pin/distract/ "MEZZ" a BH long enough to get away as a Pure Smuggler temp. The rest will be up to you.
From the Docs it seems we will be the best at this crowd control thing-AND we will be needed for HIGH END CONTENT so... if it'sNOT that way, we need to tell them how to change that in testing.
I gotta say this all looks REAL good.
SpinningCloud
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:34 pm
#90
Hotdog,
Yes, we can 'mez' and run but what ends the bounty? The death of one or the other of us? If so then eventually we need fighting skills that put us on par with the BH chasing us or we might as well just get it over with and stand there and die.
HOTDOG
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:44 pm
#91
SpinningCloud wrote:
Hotdog,
Yes, we can 'mez' and run but what ends the bounty? The death of one or the other of us? If so then eventually we need fighting skills that put us on par with the BH chasing us or we might as well just get it over with and stand there and die.
I guess it's a life forever on the run.
Seriously, if you killed the bounty hunter I would imagine another would come and they would keep coming until you settled the score with the employer but that is a revamp issue.
Combat wise we ARE going to be the best at distraction and traction which means:
/say "LOOK!"
/burstrun
if you want to be another type of Smuggler you could always take up Commando and:
/say "LOOK!"
/Flamecone 2
/loot