Smuggler Archive
Thread: The CU and YOU
Orcajum wrote:
That being said, Nick has several valid points. If (and not knowing anything, it's still speculation) the Dirty Fighting tree is still ground out through Pistol XP, there could be an issue in how a primarily crowd-control profession builds up that XP. Think how much a pain it is to do DF without Pistoleer. The current (pre-CU) incarnation of Smuggler specials are, for the most part, consistent with a crowd control role. FD as escape, LowBlow and PanicShot as delay. The exception, of course, is LastDitch, which you receive upon filling out that tree.
Also, pre-CU Pistoleer specials tend to be Offensive in nature, steadily increasing DPS output. If, based on the Profession Roles Map, Pistoleer skills also go into the Crowd Control role, we'll be working with a redundant set of skills. This will make grinding that tree even more difficult than it currently is in addition to the increased difficult the CU is supposed to bring to general profession grinding. (For that matter, Pistoleer and Carbineer hold that same crowd control role, one with a heavier offensive bent, the other a heavier defensive bent.)
RogueCloudwalker wrote:
Wes, I like the idea of crowd control, but as a Smuggler/Pistoleer, I'm scared that my offensive power will be drastically underwhelming. Sounds like we will be slowing down the enemy but running like hell and hope we have a group backing us up. Is there any way at all to do damage or are we going to be damage gimped like we are now?
This was going to be my profession when i had the ability to respec my skills, needless to say now it isnt i dont want to be considered a crowd control stacker 
I still want smuggler but guess having master pistols with it is near enough pointless in the way the document is written so far not impressed with the changes in a big way.
NickHeel wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:I think it's rather safe to say that anything anyone's been fighting for up until now is pretty much a lost fight, whatever it once was.
NickHeel wrote:Just curious here...but not long ago, weren't we fighting against something like this? I mean, if our skills are designed to "run away...run away!" then how are we supposed to level our combat lines? Hmm?This is what pisses me off more than anything. People just "give up". "Sure, I'll play along. Bend me over and do whatever to my profession because I can't do anything about it anyway and I'll keep paying you to do it to!"
I guess the era of Smugglers with some spine is fading out with EN, Solo, Dreven, Ryutek, ect. I've even noticed a few community leaders becoming complacent over the past few months. More than all the lies, broken promises, broken skills, and all else, this is what makes me want to cancel more than anything.
The question is - when you see all your nice and well-thought proposals you've been working on for over a year (or two) being completely ignored in favor of 'Hey, Dev1, they have FeatureX in WoW and they like it, let's put it in! Sweeet idea, Dev2! /hi5' game features ... what do you do?
Message Edited by ApollyonTB on 03-30-2005 04:37 AM
riotcontrol wrote:
The question is - when you see all your nice and well-thought proposals you've been working on for over a year (or two) being completely ignored in favor of 'Hey, Dev1, they have FeatureX in WoW and they like it, let's put it in! Sweeet idea, Dev2! /hi5' game features ... what do you do?
I dunno, do they have Smuggling in WoW? 
"A Jedi? Ternque's a Jedi? I get a few hours sleep and everyone starts getting delussions of grandeur"
Er, anyway, returning from my attempts at humour and hopefully to the world of sanity (always a stretch for me), I feel some of the more negative reactions in this thread are partly unfounded. I don't have all the answers and I don't know first hand what Smugglers can do currently, nor what our final abilities will be once the CU's done, dusted and sent to live, but, I do think what we're getting is good enough to go with anyone's template.
Viewed alone, Smuggler "mez" abilities sound like a nice compliment to rifleman, commando, BH. Lets just hope they reserve the best of our abilities for the master box, and not just in whatever combat line. Otherwise, smuggler pistols 4 (or whatever it may become) will be far too much a part of future templates, and past experience has suggested our templatable abilities get the NerfBat. Feign death may have needed a change, but Jedi/BH templates with it certianly drew greater attention to it.
Cant wait for TC-EP3 so I can see if 2 lines of TKA or 1 of BH make us better balanced... gotta find something to enhance offensive abilities if we arent going to see much of it in Pistols or our own trees.
PS- dreven! what's up with the strikethroughs in the sig? I miss my competition (kinda...
)! you kept my prices honest, man!
both of them are in the crowd control area so im guessin to get to you is gonna be difficult at the least...
TimePalladin wrote:
im seein smuggler/pistoleers as going to be one of the hardest professions to kill
both of them are in the crowd control area so im guessin to get to you is gonna be difficult at the least...
Not a very strong offensive template and an ever weaker defensive template. The minute someone gets past your crowd control- you are done.
And I would imagine that someone with a some serious melee under their belt is going to have some Range protection. I would also be wary of the BH who's strengths are your weaknesses AND they are the masters of Mitigation.
I'm looking at going one of two ways:
MS/MBH/Commando 0040
This would be to balance the defense and really have a strong offenseso when I "mezzed" someone I could take them out. But the BIGGEST attraction to this temp is CONTENT.
The con would be that I would be giving up melee completely and I think that melee is still going to be a monster after the CU (and I DO like playing it).
MS/TKM/Commando 0440
This is even better balanced. Defense should be awesome. Crowd control is awesomeANDI should be able to swing a couple ofHeavy Weapons pretty well withtwo full lines of Commando. I also keep Melee BUT I lose out on the BH content.
I've got other interests such as
MS/MF/Commando 0440 where I trade defense for DoTs (Mezz- Drop DoTs-Run)
and MS/MCM would be really interesting(Mezz- Drop poisons- FD (PvE)- wait- Win).
But we have to see where, how and WHAT abilities are going to happen.
Orcajum wrote:
Ok, first of all: Everyone, back away from your keyboards! Walk around the house, take a few deep breaths, get a drink.
In case people have forgotten, this is the SMUGGLER Forum. We DO NOT turn on one another. Ever. We disagree, we may argue. But nothing gets personal, nobody gets flamed. We sit and discuss our issues like the prepared, insightful, mature players that we are. We may be of the Underworld, but that does not mean we treat our own community as though we were raised in the sewer.
I don't disagree with us being a crowd control profession. I think it does in fact fit into our reputations and fighting style. And I like that we'll be important in group-combat once again.
That being said, Nick has several valid points. If (and not knowing anything, it's still speculation) the Dirty Fighting tree is still ground out through Pistol XP, there could be an issue in how a primarily crowd-control profession builds up that XP. Think how much a pain it is to do DF without Pistoleer. The current (pre-CU) incarnation of Smuggler specials are, for the most part, consistent with a crowd control role. FD as escape, LowBlow and PanicShot as delay. The exception, of course, is LastDitch, which you receive upon filling out that tree.
Also, pre-CU Pistoleer specials tend to be Offensive in nature, steadily increasing DPS output. If, based on the Profession Roles Map, Pistoleer skills also go into the Crowd Control role, we'll be working with a redundant set of skills. This will make grinding that tree even more difficult than it currently is in addition to the increased difficult the CU is supposed to bring to general profession grinding. (For that matter, Pistoleer and Carbineer hold that same crowd control role, one with a heavier offensive bent, the other a heavier defensive bent.)
Secondly, Nick also seems to be correct in beleiving the CU looks excessivly "Everquesty." I've never played EQ or EQ2, but again the Profession Role Map continues to have a melee profession bias. There are no real defensive ranged professions. There are more "balanced" melee combinations than there are ranged. A Swordsman/TKA, Fencer/TKA, Swordsman/Pikeman, seems capable of receiving strong damage, tanking and crowd control modifiers. When it comes to Ranged, the Rifleman still looks to be the end-all/be-all of combat. Though BH/Pistoleer might become the uber-template again.
Also, while we may not want to admit it, many of us have been rather complacent lately. I disagree that we need to scream and shout to the devs to get attention, but it does seem we have sorta accepted what we're given. I'll be the first to admit that i've lost a little of my fire lately, though i'll scapegoat my search for a new job for some of that
As always, a good post Orca. I think that alot of the perception of "complacent" comes from a mix of emotions at the unveiling of our smuggling revamp documents. I'm serious. What you have are two emotions mixing that "appear" to be complacency. First of all, you have the OVERWHELMING emotion of "FINALLY! IT'S HERE!!! They are finally, actually, physically doing real work about our profession!!!!". We love this around here. How long have we ALMOST gotten revamped?
The second sentiment is that people around here are, INDEED, disappointed with a few things about it.
What happens when you mix that together? Well.... exactly what we've been seeing. I think the devs are well aware about our feeling on some matters. I was, just as was NickHeel, somewhat taken aback about our reaction to the whole thing. We were like a deflated tire, but there were other factors coming into play.
I wish as much as the next smuggler for a TOUGH, REAL contraband system and to be hunted by player BH's, but they know how we feel, regardless of how we reacted to the situation, and in that I'm not upset at all.