Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Caylin said he'd crap his britches if Boba Fett or IG-88 came to bust his mellon.
I never said that.
There must be consequences to those player who have no interest in PVP and having their names appear in terminals. I would honestly love to seeplayers chased by NPC bounty hunters if they really biff things up. That can be an NPC consequence but while that would be immensely cool, I would live for the PVP one.
Though many other players would not. They want a pve consequence and they are entitled to one. The act of smuggling should not by default entail a PVP consequence.
Ahem! The term "crap his britches" refers to how excited you'd be to have this happen. Another misread, but it was spoken in slang. You did say that you would like it, I was only reating thank you very much
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
"As far as PVE consequences, god only knows I'd love to botch a mission sometime and have IG-88 take a shot at me or even Boba Fett if I really screwed up.
Having it faction aligned does not mean that all consequences are avoided, but good God... wouldn't it be cool? "
I did say that though.
Yeah Boba Fett will come after us... and Darth Vader will start killing Jedi.. pffft yeah right, would be kinda cool though, as long as BHs still get to hunt the PvPers among us though!!
I'm sure they like the Idea of NPC BHs about as much as we like the Idea of NPC smugglers to improve travel times a few months back. 
SBRD0C wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
"As far as PVE consequences, god only knows I'd love to botch a mission sometime and have IG-88 take a shot at me or even Boba Fett if I really screwed up.
Having it faction aligned does not mean that all consequences are avoided, but good God... wouldn't it be cool? "
I did say that though.
Yeah Boba Fett will come after us... and Darth Vader will start killing Jedi.. pffft yeah right, would be kinda cool though, as long as BHs still get to hunt the PvPers among us though!!
Amen.
I'm sure they like the Idea of NPC BHs about as much as we like the Idea of NPC smugglers to improve travel times a few months back.
Hehehe.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Ternque01 wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Caylin said he'd crap his britches if Boba Fett or IG-88 came to bust his mellon.
I never said that.
There must be consequences to those player who have no interest in PVP and having their names appear in terminals. I would honestly love to seeplayers chased by NPC bounty hunters if they really biff things up. That can be an NPC consequence but while that would be immensely cool, I would live for the PVP one.
Though many other players would not. They want a pve consequence and they are entitled to one. The act of smuggling should not by default entail a PVP consequence.
Ahem! The term "crap his britches" refers to how excited you'd be to have this happen. Another misread, but it was spoken in slang. You did say that you would like it, I was only reating thank you very much
WedgeStarkiller wrote:
I don't understand what is so aweful about being hunted by a player bounty hunter. If you screw up or skim too much someone shows up to kill you. That's pretty simple. If you are lucky you will survive it, if not you will end up in the cloning center. I'd like to understand why it is important to people that its an npc that is the attacker as opposed to a pc...? Most pc encounter would result in death just because a BH is likely to be more powerful than us. They can also rig the npc BH to he an ancient krayt dragon in madalorian armor and we'll definately die. Dead is dead for us, atleast with the pc BH someone else is having fun. Why not throw the BH community a bone?
Though I do think it would be appropriate if the devs gave us a new skill to accomodate this new dynamic. A delay or stealth move would be nice, but if we really want to be "star wars" I'd suggest: "Shoot First"!
It's simple, people who do not want to be Bounty Hunter marks because they don't like they way another player's playstyle is. The Bounty Hunter may call them names or say "I pwned u" or whatever. They just want to interact with NPCs who will not greif them. They want to avoid the possibility of Player Interaction with them on a forced basis.
Now I remember, a number of early post by crafters being greifed by people on pricing. they in turn banned them and add to ignore list. People want to avoid these types of players at any cost
Let me break this down.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Let's as a community go into whatthe concept offorcingaplayer into PvP. Forcing would imply that the player would unwillinglyhave no choicein a particular matter. Theseplayersdo have a choice. They can choose not to skim off their employer. They can check their ass just like they should as a worried smuggler. If needs be they have the totally available to take themselves off the terminals.
They should not have to 'check their ass' if progression is linked to missions that have PVP consequences when they should not be. Progression in this profession should not require PVP. In fact, progression in any profession in this game should not require PVP.
You talk abouthow our professionrequires PvP in this situation,what does PvP require? (The answer is making unethical choices and not managing your visibility)
I'm sorry bro, but messing with the law has consequences. If you are going to toy with the law and get away with it (i.e. no player bounties) then you should put the work into what it takes to do that.
It does not mean the consequences have to be PVP oriented.
Good point.
It is entirely within RP standards for a smuggler in the Star Wars universe to check to make sure no one is after him. That is a consequence for playing with the law. And it's so emersive it kills me.
Fine, do that if you are interested in PVP. A player who has no wish, ever, to participate in a PVP encounter should not have to.
I wasn't addressing PvP here, I was addressing RP.
It's simple and unrefutable, if you are going to make a living breaking the law, then part of the work should be checking your ass.
I never argued with that, it's the idea that your idea of a consequence is 100% pvp oriented. That is not right.
I see this point of view, but I have a secret worry that it will be to complicated to code. On top of spices, on top of slices, on top of dirty fighting, and on top of fixing a million and one different items in our profession, I will straight up tell you that I fear that if one of these items gets the axe it will be a contraband system actually worth something.
It's not FORCED, and it remains to be seen just how bad a smuggler has to mess up before he hits the terms anyways, so we have no idea how harsh it will be. Our best bet is to lobby to have smugglers who fail their missions or get caught have a significantly less penalty than a smuggler who decides to cheat his employers. No one is being FORCED right now to do anything. No one is dying. GM's system is very simple, clear, and effective, but it just needs to be properly inserted into the game.
Any smuggler mission failed leads to their visibility being increased. Being caught can lead to your visibility being increased depending on what the missions hand you for the illegal cargo. It has been said by TH that missions will be linked to a smuggling form of XP, as there is no such XP that means a new form of XP related to smuggling itself is a reward. In order for the player to get that XP they will need to do missions.
Missions in this proposal are linked hand in hand with PVP when they should not be, if the player has no interest in PVP.
anger leads to hatred.
hatred leads to suffering...
Missions lead to visibility..
Smuggler with visibility leads to other smuggler getting paid to get rid of visibility...
Paymentleads to bar withrancid booze and Twi'lek dancers......
I suggest you push for lighter penalties for loyal (but clumsy) smugglers and harsher ones for dishonest ones. That's all I can say Caylin. There is no point in claiming that the system will be hard on "the smuggler just trying to make it". I futher appologise for claiming that "it's just a piece of cake". But Caylin, checking your ass is part of the job, and you owe it to me as a correspondant to admit to that. What do you think slicing is partly designed for? How long would a criminal live if he never checked his six? Not long, not long at all. I have yet to hear any good rebuttal of this point - the RP point that part of a smugglers job is to know what authorities are after him.
I've never argued against knowing the authorities are after you. I have argued that your only solution you are working with is PVP. That is again,not acceptable to those who do not wish to PVP. I've come up with a solution MONTHS ago. You agreed with it that I noticed when I repeated it.
I see your point, but how hard is your idea to code??? Your ideas are at time very complex. Designing them and debugging them might prove to be more of a chore than the simple idea GM has.
Fighting aside (from myself also), we need to lobby for a balanced solution for smuggler missions that let's the little man make it and the big man take the big risks.
I don't want to hear any of this "FORCED" stuff anymore. Players have a choice to cheat, players have a choice to be careless, players have a choice to take their names of the terms.. how many more choices do you want to give them before there is no penalty for the law?
It is forced when missions failed lead to visibility as does being caught while on the mission. As missions will apparently be linked to smuggler progression it is not good game design to force players into a pvp situation.
I"m not going to go into this, smugglers have the choices and tools available to change the situation. It is no less hard for them to do this, it is their job. Even smugglers who dig PvP aren't going to want a BH coming after them at every damn waking moment. They will use the same tools that PvE smugglers use. We are knee deep in the law, we should have to know and be capable of bailing ourselves out.
This doesn't even mention that our missions themselves will be PvE, and more than likely (you know this) easy as hell to complete successfully. All PvE missions in this game that are designed to be solo'd are a joke. The only thing I personally want from them is my cut!
We don't know how hard they will be. I hope they are enough to make me weep in frustration, make obscene oaths with pagan gods and wish upon a falling star to actually finish my mission while remaining fun.
Hmmmm maybe i'd take them a little easier, lol
Take this box from this point to this point. You don't even have to kill anyone either. You don't have to steal the shipment.. blah, blah, blah.
Both of our "too hard" and "too easy" viewpoints on evading bounties both sit in muddy water, but there is one thing is not uncertain: players have tools to check, lower, and otherwise null player bounties and visibility. They have the tools, and they will be given ethical decisions to make. This "it's too hard for them" argument lies on a gravely slope at the top of a very tall precipice. I don't want to hear the word "FORCED" again. How about the word "RESPONSIBILITY"
They are being forced. For reasons above. Again if you can't figure this out, there is nothing to be discussed until you do.If you look for it,it's there. I can see it, you should be able to as well.
I see a direct link to doing smuggler missions and raising visibility. I see your concern that this will be so annoying that you don't want anything to do with it. I will further recognize that this concern is raised by the vagueness of statements made in GreenMarine's post. It is both unfortunate and *insert something bad becuase i'm too tired to think right now* that such broad, sweeping statements don't clarify things. I accept that, because i'd rather be japping my jaw about this stuff confused than to have absolutely no clue. I can almost see why developers keep things private until the need to be revealed.
The only reason why i push for this simplistic viewpoint is that something too complex can't be coded well. Make a machine with 1000 parts and it will fall apart much faster than one that does the same thing with 10. You have always liked detail Caylin, and that's cool. But this is the barebones of an extrodinary contraband system. You see many flaws and pick them out, but the fact remains that the system is implementable as it is,it just needs to be balanced so that smugglers don't end up on a BH term every other day.
You don't force a player who has no interest in pvp, skilling up in a skill tree, into a pvp situation without their consent. That is what is happening. What I've proposed solves that, is simple and works within the set mechanics of the game. If you are interested in PVP fine, check those terminals. A player that has no interest in PVP should not have to though.
Again I see your point, but what you're telling me is that you want both PvE consequences and not having the experience of being able to see who's after you and have an active say in who knows what about you. This hits the big lame button on me, but if you like it, cool. I don't see how this would be fun at all. I stand by my point that a smuggler should have the tools to check who is after him by slicing. This is incredibly cool, and quite frankly I don't see how you can be annoyed with this if it is given that you can control a form of NPC visibility to tone down NPC BH's.
Why is this so hard? We call for a balancing, ensure the tools that lower our visibility work, and viola - workable smuggler system. And I don't even want to hear that smugglers shouldn't be FORCED to check their six for authorities. That's part of the job and as my correspondant you should admit to this because it's common sense.Every smuggler who takes up a factory crate and hides it in his backpack will be checking their visibility if not just for the sheer fun of being able to do it. Hell i'm gonna be checking my visibility every night. I'm gonna be doing it while pouring chocolate sauce all over myself... er.. TMI... I mean, do you know how cool it is to even be able to scan a computer for info regarding your wanted status? That VERRRRY damn cool
They should have to be. I wont have to. You may want to.Yet they are being forced. Again, think on this for a bit.
Let me ask you one question. If PvE'ers have a NPC BH come for them, would you like them to have the ability to check their NPC visibility and alter it according to their wishes? If you answer no, I respect your answer, but I will also inform you that there have been very little complaints on this feature in this thread. There are complaints about having to keep track of a PC visibility meter, when all they care about is PvE. You still owe it to me to admit that a smuggler should be careful and always make sure he is "clear" of the awareness of authorities. I don't care if you never tell it to my face, but that's what a smuggler does, and there have been zero complains on this feature, and i'd like it to be represented to the devs that way.
If smugglers are too worried that they will die all the time that they check their visibility as much as you suggest, then they have problems and serious ones. I don't feel that SOE should cater to worries as unwarranted as those.
They can have consequences, but they should not be forced into PVP consequences as they will be if they wish to take part in missions.
Sorry for the tone, but damn.. that's how i feel. Much respect to ya!
And I to you, but I'm dead serious that having them forced to check the terminals actively when I don't need to. That is bad game design and should not be implemented. Seriously think on this, please.
The thinking has been done. A part of a smugglers job is keeping his tail clean and out of traps. If NPC bounty hunters are assigned, I'm sure PvE smugglers will love being able to adjust their NPC visibility. It is good game design, but monitoring a PC visibility chart can be seen as annoying to someone who doesn't care for it. That much I see of your point. Perhaps if you have the ability to play with your visibility from a NPC standpoint the "appeal" will be more clear. I would like to point out that the adjusting and monitoring of visibility is widely liked around here (if it is weeded out of people not wanting to monitor a PvP meter for a PvE flavored player), and I for one would be very very sore if it was somehow not included in the revamp. It is a wonderful idea, better than I've seen alot of ideas thrown around here. A visibility system is needed for BH's of anykind to come for us. Making money off of slicing computer terminals and "adjusting" it is too good an idea to lay aside like a bag of moldy tangerines.
I emplore you, keep fighting for what you want, I'm sure you will, have a good night
WedgeStarkiller wrote:
So there is a huge community sentiment that we want to deny the entire bounty hunter community the content that bounties on us would allow because we don't want them to call us names?
We aren't talking about the template stacker, mind disease, pvp only leet doods that run around trying to find an unsuspecting person to beat up on who may be overt unintentionally. I'm sure there are some jerks in the BH community, all professions have them.
Is there a reason besides not wanting to read a few insulting text strings after dying? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really don't understand where you guys are coming from.
It has become very clear to me that some people just have different preferences. But make no mistake about it, I agree exactly with you. How people are so afraid of a few lines of text kills me too. How someone would want to combat a stagnant, unintelligent facade of a person is beyond me. You might as well be playing that old Nintendo game Contra and shooting up the Big Bad Alien boss.
I'd much rather make a real connection to someone. When I die, it won't be a gimped computer in a server farm in Texas that DB's me. It will be another player who is having the time of his life. For all the insults I might draw at my death, they are worth them to share the joy of another player who says, "good fight, it's just my job, it would be better under different circumstances"
Let them have a presaved binary message relayed to them. Let them have it, they want it. I will know that a trillion presaved binary messages don't mean a gnat's ass to a real compliment or connection I would make with another person.
GuntherSlag wrote:
No one has answered the question. Are you willing to sacrifice part of our revamp to include these NPC Bounty Hunters?
No. Hell no. That is my biggest fear. I can only pray that the devs have enough time to.