Smuggler Archive
Thread: Bad trend for smugglers.
Bamsee wrote:
Oh and BTW, it may only take 64 points to get to novice but to do all of Smuggler it requires 88 because we must use artisan for another 15 plus the business line for another 9 to get a vendor.
Up goes the BS flag - a vendor is not a necessity for a smuggler any more than it is for a Novice Scout. Just because you can make consumable items doesn't mean you need a vendor. Sell your wares face-to-face (as Smugglers should anyway and as I have in large quantitiesat times), or work with a Merchant, but don't try to pass it off as a necessity.
BUT, if that's the way you want to look at it, I say let them reinstate the requirements of Businessman and Engineer.
And a BH shouldn't be using Smuggler skills and still be calling themselves a BH. =)
And a Smuggler shouldn't be using TK skills and calling themselves a Smuggler... but oh so many of them do.
Or Pistoleer skills, for that matter.
I'll support the move of FD and even LD to Master as soon as Smugglers are prohibited from participating in other professions. You want your abilities all for yourselves, turnabout is fair play...
The skill point system exists as it does for a reason. We don't have character clases for a reason. And don't for a moment kid yourselves into thinking that the Devs would take the time to move these skills when they've been pushing back a profession revamp for this long. Heck, I don't recall a precedent for them moving a skill ever before, in any profession.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Come to think of it, FD should cause some BF since it is, in effect, the antiForce-of-Will.
Bamsee wrote:
Why the heck should we have to change our location of FD because of 2 professions that are abusing it against each other? Shouldn't it be them that are changed to prevent it, not us?
Soon enough this will involve Smugglers more then just our skills being used. We will be targets of Bounty Hunters. So what then? Do we want BH'ers not to fail a mission on us because they attacked someone they couldn't defeat or because that person in in a group that attacked that BH? Or maybe we should just FD and have our armor/wounds/BF be damaged to the extreme? So there are a few choices we have. The first being move FD to another skill line. This isn't that unthinkable of a position. The next options is to remove FD for good. Bad choice overall because this just hurts the Smuggler in the end. Another choice would be to make FD more skill important, meaning the higher the skills the better then FD works. This has a big flaw though, FD is still in the DF line which BH'ers still take up anyways and unless Master is way more powerful then DF IV's level of FD then this won't work. The last option is to make FD not work in PVP. Personally I like this one. Yeah it's handy if your in a large PVP battle and the person won't waste time beating on you when other threats around but for the most part this is lose lose for both sides. The one who uses FD gets as I have already mentioned armor/wounds/BF damage by doing this and the one who is FD'd on simply has no way to win making it a grief point in the game. If we cannot move FD then FD should be made to work in PVE ONLY since PVP is a no win situation for either side.
jbezorg wrote:
You didn't have to pay 6000 credits for 100 points of slicing XP or run out of cash and slice a terminal, get 100xp, wait 2 min, slice, get 100xp, wait 2 min,.... or beg forcontainers at a starport and pay people so you could perform a service for them.
No, you're right, I didn't... I was a smarter smuggler than that. I didn't need to buy locked containers. I used some of the money I made from doing all the missions that got me the unarmed and pistol xp and I bought a box of clamps. I opened the several containers I'd looted along theway. Then I advertised "Opening containers for free, 100% success rate, you keep what's inside" and was done with the slicing prerequisite by the end of the first day.
I want to play a Master Smuggler and the BHs and Jedi that dabble in smuggler to kit themselves and force a change (most likely a nerf) in my chosen profession are stepping on my toes.
Your toes don't mean a damn thing to everyone else who plays the game. Your desire to change a profession for your exclusive benefit steps on the toes of everyone else who invests points in that tree. They met the requirements just the same as you - what makes you think you're so damn special that you get to determine the course of the profession to the detriment of others?
Why would you care if it got nerfed anyhow? A smuggler doesn't use those skills anyhow - only a fighter with smuggler skills does. It doesn't matter if the individual is a Master Smuggler or not - only one tree in the profession is combat-related anyhow.
You're just not getting it - the skill is not intended to be exclusive to Master Smugglers - it's meant to be used by people with other combat professions.
And I'd lay odds that you're one of those people who has another combat prof (possibly two, even at master level). Do you think that means you're not a dabbler? Smuggler is the only profession that can do that.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
No, you're right, I didn't... I was a smarter smuggler than that. I didn't need to buy locked containers. I used some of the money I made from doing all the missions that got me the unarmed and pistol xp and I bought a box of clamps. I opened the several containers I'd looted along theway. Then I advertised "Opening containers for free, 100% success rate, you keep what's inside" and was done with the slicing prerequisite by the end of the first day.
Congratulations
Your toes don't mean a damn thing to everyone else who plays the game. Your desire to change a profession for your exclusive benefit steps on the toes of everyone else who invests points in that tree. They met the requirements just the same as you - what makes you think you're so damn special that you get to determine the course of the profession to the detriment of others?
What you fail to understand is that I propose no change at all to the smuggler trees at all. I've stated before that Bounty Hunters and Jedi are not dabbler professions and when the Smuggler profession is changed to the detriment ofothers because ofthose professions kitting themselves and then bitching because their opponent has done the same?That's where I take issue.
Why would you care if it got nerfed anyhow?
Because I'm a SMUGGLER! Why don't you go in the TKA forum and propose a nerf to FOW and see what happens.
A smuggler doesn't use those skills anyhow - only a fighter with smuggler skills does.
There in, lays the problem.
It doesn't matter if the individual is a Master Smuggler or not - only one tree in the profession is combat-related anyhow.
You're just not getting it - the skill is not intended to be exclusive to Master Smugglers - it's meant to be used by people with other combat professions.
Imgine that. Smuggler skills not useable by smugglers. Gosh, I'm shocked. So you're opinion is thatthe Dirty Fighting tree isthere for kitting only and placed in the smuggler profession for what? Convenience? Since anybody kitting is gonna want Meditation 4 also?
And I'd lay odds that you're one of those people who has another combat prof (possibly two, even at master level). Do you think that means you're not a dabbler? Smuggler is the only profession that can do that.
What are the odds? I'll take you up on that bet.Master Smuggler, Master Musician, with a little bit of pistoleer (0/0/0/4) because Smuggler has no pistol mods. I RP mostly now since PvP sucks IMO and I get my enjoyment out of SWG that way. Otherwise, I'd have quit long ago.
I'm looking at your sig and I'll lay odds that you're one of those people who has made this an issue in the first place
Message Edited by jbezorg on 08-13-2004 02:35 PM
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Again, I'd venture to guess that you've never done BH so you don't understand. By the time the Jedi and the BH face off in combat, the BH has invested a considerable amount of time and money to get there. IF they succeed, they get a whopping 15k credits. For reference, the BH could get 22k hunting an NPC - or 32k doing ONE Mokk mission on Dantooine. Either alternative takes far less time and money.
I hate to break this to you kiddo, but you came into the wrong forum to expect pity over how difficult your functioning profession is. Perhaps if you looked around, you'd realize that while however difficult bounty-hunting is, there IS no smuggling for you to compare it to. And once you realize that, maybe it will dawnon you that WE DON'T EVEN REMOTELY CARE about how hard you BHs have it. You've taken the liberty of showing up here without any interest or concerns about our issues, so expecting sympathy for your own is a little ridiculous, don't you think?
-Zz
Oh, and you can flame away, I'm done now.... I just looked back at your other responses and realized that the only ones you're looking out for are dabblers like yourselves, and you'll just move on to the next forest after your kind have slashed and burned the pistol professions in this game...what little there is left of them...
jbezorg wrote:
Imagine that. Smuggler skills not useable by smugglers.
a little bit of pistoleer (0/0/0/4) because Smuggler has no pistol mods.
Because smuggler is NOT a combat profession, unless your idea of combat is the yard trash mobs around static cities.
Now that I think about it, maybe they should remove Dirty Fighting from Smuggler completely. It has no place in a non-combat profession anyhow, we wouldn't want to tarnish "your" profession or encourage people to "dabble" in it.
I'm looking at your sig and I'll lay odds that you're one of those people who has made this an issue in the first place
Maybe if you read the rest of the thread instead of just my sig, you'd realize how bad those odds are. I've already stated several things:
1) The sig is out-of-date
2) I don't do PvP
3) I've gone all-out on Smuggler before (the only tree I didn't complete is Underworld, see above for why)
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Bamsee wrote:
When the DEVs did their newest stupidity with revamps and gave BH's so many free points it made BH the dabbler profession of the game. I personally do NOT want to see Smuggler become another class for wussies to use and abuse because they can't handle not winning every time.
What do you know about being a Bounty Hunter? Let me tell you something: When Smuggler requires 217 points (and mastery of two other professions)to Master, then you can complain about relaxing the skill points for another profession.
Let me put this into perspective:
To become a Smuggler, one need only invest 64 points. To become a Bounty Hunter, even now, requires 106. I'm sure you haven't lef those 42 points unspent, so every Smuggler is more of a dabbler than any Bounty Hunter.
When I started as a BH, we walked everywhere, there were no vehicles or mounts or player shuttleports. When I mastered BH, I had invested 217 skill points and 1860 Apprenticeship XP to get there, and done three times as many bounty missions as are needed today. I had 33 points left - enough for Novice Medic and Ranger Tracking 3.
Would you like the Smuggler revamp to set those sort of requirements on your profession? I think not.So ifan old-school MBH doesn't have a problem with this situation, I don't think a Smuggler has any right to either.
F F S people, no one owns their profession. You play your game and let other people play theirs. They aren't doing anything to you personally.
Lets add a little more perspective:
Errr... 121 to reach Master Smuggler. 169 to reach Master Bounty Hunter (217 before the BH revamp). An damn it, I walked everywhere too. You didn't have to pay 6000 credits for 100 points of slicing XP or run out of cash and slice a terminal, get 100xp, wait 2 min, slice, get 100xp, wait 2 min,.... or beg forcontainers at a starport and pay people so you could perform a service for them.And at least you got to run Bounty Hunter missions.
"Would you like the Smuggler revamp to set those sort of requirements on your profession? I think not."
Message Edited by jbezorg on 08-13-2004 12:44 PM
), who would have a 50/50 chance of seeing through it.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
jbezorg wrote:
Imagine that. Smuggler skills not useable by smugglers.
a little bit of pistoleer (0/0/0/4) because Smuggler has no pistol mods.
Because smuggler is NOT a combat profession, unless your idea of combat is the yard trash mobs around static cities.
Now that I think about it, maybe they should remove Dirty Fighting from Smuggler completely. It has no place in a non-combat profession anyhow, we wouldn't want to tarnish "your" profession or encourage people to "dabble" in it.
Didn't you read the first big yellow paragraph? maybe bold face highlighting the primary concept may help.
What you fail to understand is that I propose no change at all to the smuggler trees at all. I've stated before that Bounty Hunters and Jedi are not dabbler professions and when the Smuggler profession is changed to the detriment ofothers because ofthose professions kitting themselves and then bitching because their opponent has done the same?That's where I take issue.
I'm looking at your sig and I'll lay odds that you're one of those people who has made this an issue in the first place
Maybe if you read the rest of the thread instead of just my sig, you'd realize how bad those odds are.
I've already stated several things:
1) The sig is out-of-date
2) I don't do PvP
3) I've gone all-out on Smuggler before (the only tree I didn't complete is Underworld, see above for why)
4) I intend to master smuggler after I'm done with Commando - I do this for no toher reason than the fun of it.
So, Professor Xavier, looks like you've got no basis for your claim...
My reply above had as much basis as your original statement that prompted it. So if you are going to throw around baseless accusations, be prepared to get some back
NicolasFrost wrote:
Even if it makes us look dead, they'll know they haven't succeeded because they haven't gotten thier monitary/xp reward.
Okay, an improvement on this, if they spread the points out around Smuggler, and if they make it so that /feigndeath makes us look dead if the skill check of the Smuggler's FD mod to the Bounty Hunter's corpse-knowledge mod(telling if I'm a real corpse or not while feigned), then a failed feign, will let the BH keep attacking me, and the mission sticks. A *successfull* feign makes the *character*(not the player, mind you) believe my Smuggler is dead, and he gets a Mission Incomplete, and the mission is gone. This stopps the Corpse camping there. That'll mean if playing dead is successful, the mission is over and I get away, instead of the BH keep the mission and sitting on top of me. If I fail to decieve the BH, then the mission sticks, and I've wasted time/HAM. All in all, I think that a Master Bounty Hunter's corpse-knowledge(yes, I know it needs a better name) mod versus a Master Smuggler's FD Mod, should even out, and in the case of these two pairing off, the odds that FD is successfull should be 50/50.
Note: With the FD skill mod made to work this way and spread about Smuggler, it means 0010 would only be usefull for people who PvE, while making it usefull in PvP would require commitment.
Also, to stop Bounty Hunters from using Feign to wuss out on a Jedi(did I just say that? DAMN STRAIGHT I DID!!), using Feign Death against said Jedi cancels the TEF, and fails the Hunter's mission.
To stop Jedi from using it on Bounty Hunters to keep them from finishing thier mission, win or lose, make it so that every time they feign death, it costs the same ammount of xp they lose when being capped.
Reasoning behind it? I've been in situations where BHs wuss out just to keep the mission, I helped the Jedi get away. The Hunter was very pissed at me for doing this while he was feigning, and challenged me to a duel. I sent him to the cloners. I don't mind the Hunters going after Jedi, its the jerks who think they should keep the mission no matter what, so they can keep PvPing the Jedi.
I've also been in the transverse situation, a Hunter and Jedi were duking it out, the Jedi feigns, and the Hunter, who was honorable, /peaces and sits by the Jedi, instead of blackbaring. I went over, and in spatial, offered the hunter what was left of my bottle of brandy and a few doses of Pixie and Muon, on the house. Heard a few choice words from the Jedi, by they were of the childish variety, so I just ignored him, called my swoop, and rode off.
I try to see more sides of every argument than just the one that most benefits me.
Please, no one support Nerfing FD. I don't like it moving to Master, but would rather that happen then another damned Smuggler Nerf. I mean, besides Squad Leader, Smuggler is the most gimped combat-capable profession in the game. The best idea we've seen so far is to change the use of the FD mod, and seperate the points throughout Smuggler.
Edit: Added to the first paragraph.
Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 08-14-2004 08:00 AM
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Because smuggler is NOT a combat profession, unless your idea of combat is the yard trash mobs around static cities.
Now that I think about it, maybe they should remove Dirty Fighting from Smuggler completely. It has no place in a non-combat profession anyhow, we wouldn't want to tarnish "your" profession or encourage people to "dabble" in it.