Smuggler Archive
Thread: Bad trend for smugglers.
bpphantom wrote:
PhoenixOrion wrote:Best Solution:Jedi can't be Smugglers.Problem Solved.
Best solution is Jedi lose all previous professions and get their points back. Jedi can be... Jedi. It's a dedicated path that requires focus.
i agree
Conjur wrote:
Get UA out of smuggling - and put in engineering.
Conjur wrote:
SOE - LISTEN TO ME PLEASE - I HAVE 3 accounts. I WILL CANCEL ALL 3 of them the very first publish after JTL if it doesnt include a FAVORABLE smuggler revamp. I could care less about JTL bug fixes or Jedi bug fixes. This is a warning and a promise I will keep. You can word it any way you want - you devs have have dumped on the smuggler prof too many times. If we get dumped on one more time you will lose my 45 dollars per month. I mean it - smuggler better by golly be fixed the VERY FIRST publish after JTL- or before. If you nerf smuggler in any way prior to that , I will quit - including the Feign Death issue.
Haha, you go girl!! Ultimately, that's the only way anyone's going to get through to SOE. Patient negotiation, yelling profusely, dropping the profession, whatever.. they don't care. Only $$$ talks here.
I don't know if I think that Feign should be moved to master, but a master should be a whole hell of a lot better at FD than some dabbler. And lumping every working ability/special we have into one tree just makes us that much more of a target for the weekly templateers (sweeping through from prof to prof, overusing specials and getting them nerfed).
Oh wait.. sorry, I forgot! Having one semifunctional tree makes us l33tC0M8@T G0DS!!!11
-Zz
Rogue135 wrote:
Conjur wrote:Get UA out of smuggling - and put in engineering.I'm afraid that it's a little late to do that, as it would ruin a lot of Smuggler templates, Smuggler/Pistoleer/Teras Kasi being the most obvious. If unarmed were to be dropped, it couldn't be replaces with engineering for that reason alone... unless the Devs want to upset a lotta people, that would have been something to do in Beta, but that's why we have Unarmed in the first place, originally it was Engineering, unless I'm mistaken.
It used to be UA4, Pistols4, 4040 artisan...
Jarkatoo wrote:
well i am not liking what is going on 1 bit, it seems we are becoming a FOTM.... i see a trend of a lot of TKA/Smuggler/BH and itis starting to disturb me. BH's are picking up smuggler for the feign death skill. and jedi are starting to complain about it, which only means 1 thing, the golden children are gonna get there way and smugglers will get nerfed once again..and the worse part is the players doing this keep bragging on the flurry forums about it. i feigned and you couldnt do anything about it. so what is happening is if a jedi is beating them they feign death, wait till the tef wears off and goes back and start attacking the jedi, because he doesnt lose his mission that way..
Caylin i think we are going to need your intervention in the outcome of this. BH's are abussing a skill of ours and i know the devs dont like it and thought about getting rid of it, well now they have fuel to do it.......
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but make Feign Death a Master skill. Or make it so that the skill is only affective if you have all the skill mods. Divide the mods equally up among the 4 trees instead of having it all in the Dirty Fighting tree. This way they would have to basically master the profession for Feign Death to be useful and affective. Most of us are masters anyway so it won't really be a problem. So no need to swing the nerf bat at all, just do a little reorganizing of the skill trees.
Well let's see... I have done BH not just as a grind but kept it for several months just before the so called Investigation reduction which yes did reduce time but overall failed do to the stuff buggy droids and missions. So yes I have walked down this messed up road many times doing missions for hours on end and only collecting 1-2 bounties because of the missions bugs but I still continued playing bh long after the grinding was done.
BH along with Smuggler and Jedi and even Commando (in some reguards) are known the most of any professions in SWG. Rather then fix BH the way the majority of those who play BH wanted the class done (remember the vote about fixing the class or changing the skill points required?) SOE took the cop out and made BH far to easy. Not in time it takes, but in the power it gives by dabbling to the masses. The "Old School" BH'ers are becoming quickly a very small minority in BH. But not by those who want to be or to roleplay a BH but by those simply out to use every little thing they can get to win. Is it legal in the game? sure. But is it right? no. SOE took the easy way on this one and made BH not a class to respect and fear but a class of just a dab will do ya! They have become an uber starting class for many in the game now, rather then a commitment.
If SOE fails to fix classes and allows others to be used then it's up to those who care about these said professions to try and protect them. In the end all that will happen if they fail in it is the professions being used will be nerfed which will just force the dabblers into other abusive/overpowering corners of the game, leaving everyone else to try and make do with their now screwed over profession. Dabbling was a nice idea and change of pase from many of the games out there but in the end dabbling has caused many of the problems in this game.
Oh and BTW, it may only take 64 points to get to novice but to do all of Smuggler it requires 88 because we must use artisan for another 15 plus the business line for another 9 to get a vendor. Is this still less then what BH needs? yes. Are Smugglers anywhere near as powerful as a BH? LOL Yeah right... But then again Smugglers aren't supposed to be as powerful as a BH. And a BH shouldn't be using Smuggler skills and still be calling themselves a BH. =)
Engineering? **edit** are we going to do with that???
Conjur wrote:
Get UA out of smuggling - and put in engineering.
PhoenixOrion wrote:
Engineering? **edit** are we going to do with that???
Conjur wrote:
Get UA out of smuggling - and put in engineering.
Like I said, it's too late for the Devs to add any requirements to any profession, seeing as it would mess up so many templates... don't worry about it, will never happen
... I hope...
Soon enough this will involve Smugglers more then just our skills being used. We will be targets of Bounty Hunters. So what then? Do we want BH'ers not to fail a mission on us because they attacked someone they couldn't defeat or because that person in in a group that attacked that BH? Or maybe we should just FD and have our armor/wounds/BF be damaged to the extreme? So there are a few choices we have. The first being move FD to another skill line. This isn't that unthinkable of a position. The next options is to remove FD for good. Bad choice overall because this just hurts the Smuggler in the end. Another choice would be to make FD more skill important, meaning the higher the skills the better then FD works. This has a big flaw though, FD is still in the DF line which BH'ers still take up anyways and unless Master is way more powerful then DF IV's level of FD then this won't work. The last option is to make FD not work in PVP. Personally I like this one. Yeah it's handy if your in a large PVP battle and the person won't waste time beating on you when other threats around but for the most part this is lose lose for both sides. The one who uses FD gets as I have already mentioned armor/wounds/BF damage by doing this and the one who is FD'd on simply has no way to win making it a grief point in the game. If we cannot move FD then FD should be made to work in PVE ONLY since PVP is a no win situation for either side.
Actually there is 1 other option which is a form of one of the previous ones. I had forgotten about this until takingmy showersince I am not a CH anymore. This would be to have FD skill mods be much more important but rather then leaving them in 1 line as they are now to do what they have done to CH (which is one of the best revamps and simple changes SOE has done to the game. Move FD skill mods throughout the Smuggler skill tree. Personally I would like to see this done with all our skills. Sure this messes up the names they gave the lines but this improves the profession overall. Why should anyone be able to get 1 row in ANY class and at that point be just short of master's skills. Many of the combat classes are built like this in the game atm. This gives more creed to those who go master in these professions and gives dabblers what they honestly deserve,... a dabble of the skills.
Bamsee wrote:
Why the heck should we have to change our location of FD because of 2 professions that are abusing it against each other? Shouldn't it be them that are changed to prevent it, not us?
Soon enough this will involve Smugglers more then just our skills being used. We will be targets of Bounty Hunters. So what then? Do we want BH'ers not to fail a mission on us because they attacked someone they couldn't defeat or because that person in in a group that attacked that BH? Or maybe we should just FD and have our armor/wounds/BF be damaged to the extreme? So there are a few choices we have. The first being move FD to another skill line. This isn't that unthinkable of a position. The next options is to remove FD for good. Bad choice overall because this just hurts the Smuggler in the end. Another choice would be to make FD more skill important, meaning the higher the skills the better then FD works. This has a big flaw though, FD is still in the DF line which BH'ers still take up anyways and unless Master is way more powerful then DF IV's level of FD then this won't work. The last option is to make FD not work in PVP. Personally I like this one. Yeah it's handy if your in a large PVP battle and the person won't waste time beating on you when other threats around but for the most part this is lose lose for both sides. The one who uses FD gets as I have already mentioned armor/wounds/BF damage by doing this and the one who is FD'd on simply has no way to win making it a grief point in the game. If we cannot move FD then FD should be made to work in PVE ONLY since PVP is a no win situation for either side.
). I still think thatthe requirements to become one should either bebrought back up to Master Scout/Marksman(or maybe Master Scout/Marksman 0444, since rifles aren't used). If not that, then either up Jedi missions to Master, or bring in the Legenary Bounty Hunter profession, which can be the first Double Elite Class, and the only one capable of Hunting Jedi.
TheLemming wrote:
Firstly, I highly doubt that you see as many Master Smugglers misuse the skills
Because Master Smugglers don't fight... unless they are dabblers. Get real, here. SMUGGLER IS NOT A COMBAT PROFESSION so stop complaining when people with combat skills use FD. Of course they are going to... and any Master Smuggler who intends to is going to need to explore other professions as well.
Remember, to a BH, you're all "marksman dabblers" anyhow.
And I think we both know what you use just the kind of template that we're talking about, hence you getting defensive.
Used to have that template (my signature's a bit out of date) but I'm exploring other professions for the time being. I'm not a temploiter, I don't even PvP. I like to try out new combinations of skills because they are fun and because there's a certain logical progression to doing so if you don't want to relearn skills you just abandoned. Right now, I've dropped BH entirely (which I mastered many months ago) and I'm working on Commando, just for the fun of it and the badge. I plan to do the same with Smuggler when that's done.
This is also not the only character I've played - I've been a Fence and a Slicer too, so it's not all just about the pistol.
So now, I'd like to tell you where you can stick your assumption. Don't say "we both know" when you don't know squat.
Do you really think that a pistol skill with a 4x delay (in a profession with no speed bonuses) named last ditch was meant to be spammed at speed cap?
With a 1.2 speed pistol, a Master Pistoleer can do that anyhow (and so many Master Smugglers are alsoMaster Pistoleers)- so it's not about being a BH. Was it meant to be? Who knows - I can only tell you how it works. Weapon speed, delay modifiers and skill modifiers affect how quickly every attack is made - did you expect them to make a special dispensation for Last Ditch?
No. Let me break it down for you. When the eye on the developer tower turns to us again, they might notice this happening. They might decide that this was not how they intended it to be used, so they make the damage mod 5x...thus giving us a stopping shot with a longer delay. Or maybe they increase the delay so you have no chance to feign death if it doesn't work (when you're not buffed). Basically, a way that misuse of a skill by dabblers would get a skill that smugglers might need nerfed.
Waaah, waaah, waaah. It would affect everyone who uses the skills equally - and "true" Smugglers by your definition probably don't have much need for the skill since they're not fighting much unless they dabble.
People can take just one tree in a profession (like most Smugglers do in Marksman) whether you like it or not - and they can use those skills to enhance their other abilities. That's the way the game is designed.
More to the point is the matter of feign death. If you can't see that BH using it to keep a jedi mission alive is an abuse of the skill, I really won't need to post again because I'll never be able to hammer it through. Using this would effectively allow a BH to follow around a Jedi and nag him all day without any true risk to himself. That could probably be seen as harassment
If someone is being harassed, they should report it. The mission ends if the BH is killed - if he is not killed it continues until one or the other dies. Faking death in a RP perspective means your mark isn't expecting you to come back and finish the job. In a game perspective, it gives the BH another chance to finish the job.
BH's already get screwed enough on Jedi bounties - they can make more hunting an NPC. Hunting a Jedi is an expensive and time-consuming proposition and the BH has to contend with all the ways a Jedi can exploit - going link-dead in a lake, relogging to break the TEF, etc. etc. And it's already not a fair fight because the Jedi is more powerful (and may in fact have access to all the same skills) So, a BH has to use every trick at his disposal.
Moving the skill to keep it from being abused in this way, and to save it for the rest of us.
It doesn't belong to you and you alone! Can "the rest of us" mentality right now. The skill is not proprietary to people who consider themselves "true smugglers". It's a combat ability, it's going to be used by people who fight.
Smugglers aren't fighters - a smuggler who participates in PvP does so because he's a Pistoleer and/or a TKM, not because he has Marksman Pistol IV and a couple of tricky abilities.
We might even be able to get it improved a bit if it was a more advanced skill...like making it look like we really were dead, with the ham bars hidden and the "corpse of" bit by the name...
Really, it just annoys the heck out of me that people would use this... If you're a BH and a Jedi is about to take you down it isn't like you're going to lose anything.
Again, I'd venture to guess that you've never done BH so you don't understand. By the time the Jedi and the BH face off in combat, the BH has invested a considerable amount of time and money to get there. IF they succeed, they get a whopping 15k credits. For reference, the BH could get 22k hunting an NPC - or 32k doing ONE Mokk mission on Dantooine. Either alternative takes far less time and money.
As for "what have you got to lose"? I'd ask you the same thing - why does a Smuggler need FD either? It's not as if you have any more to lose when you get killed. Just take the DB, heal, rebuff and go try again...
Your problem is you think that "Smugglers" are some secret club that only consists of people who mastered the profession and have been ratified by the other members of this forum, or something. I regret to inform you that the designers of the game feel otherwise. Your desire to move a commonly used skill to Master is a transparent attempt to keep it out of the hands of anyone that you don't consider a Smuggler. I've seen the same attitude in other professions. I'll say it again: If you want all the "good stuff" to be in Master to discourage dabblers, we might as well remove the skill point system and institute character classes.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 