Smuggler Archive
Thread: Holy Smokes, the Devs WILL change prereqs for professions...
Smug-Druggler
Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:39 pm
#53
"The DNA of a Smuggler", ahh, one of my favorite subjects.
In continuing the spirit of not making a big fuss over it, but still exchanging ideas, I'd have to say that the question is sabotaged from the start because the SWG Smuggler is not a true Smuggler in the real sense of the word. And it's the word that we get focused on.
I think that one thing that many of us, including myselfuntil recently, project into Smuggler is what a Crime Lord is/would be. That is, a cunning businessman of vice. Instead what I see the Smuggler should be, is a facilitator of those crime bosses.
Here's an example:
As a facilitator, the Smuggler needs to be versed in crook tactics. How do I do this right now? It's short term. How do I move this load, shake this pursuit, whack this guy who's trying to whack me?
As a Crime Lord, crook strategy comes to the fore. How do I run an outfit over the long term?Where do I purchase my contraband,set up my distribution points,target my competition?
If all we did was smuggle in SWG, then yes our current pre-reqs would fit the bill perfectly. It's a cut and dried Point A to Point B situation with a need to overcome obstacles.
However, the fact that we are making and selling Spice, Faction, and Slices, by definition makes us businessmen/women.
See? The second part doesn't really translate to our title. And I'm not saying that we have to be slavish to our title, butour differing smuggler ideals are sabotaged from the jump off. Also I'm not lobbying to include Business as a pre-req, but as long as the SWG Smuggler still sells stuff then we are businessmen, but...we're not, but...we are...
/emote throws up hands
Just have to chalk it up to the game design and translating ideals into reality and back.
Many people have used the film The Transporter as an example of what a Smuggler/Combat Smuggler is. Personally, I tend to think of the film Scarface as a good example of the true Hybrid nature of what a Smuggler is. "Tony" (Scarface), is an in-the-trenches street "facilitator" for a Crime Lord. But he still does deals on the side for himself.As he says " I have ears. I hear things."
In the beginning of the film, he's a tactician. He just needs his street smarts, a fist, and a pistol.
Later on, he starts debating about the hazards of smuggling from Panama to Miami(one of the best "criminal moments" in movie history, imo). Here is where the business knowledge comes in.
If you've never seen the film, some of what I write heremight notreally get through to you, but go out and rent it. It gives you a good sense of the slick and nasty hustle that dirty business is and a good view of the hybrid nature of our class.
RESPECT
Geevo
Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:34 pm
#54
The change makes sense, but if they were to make me give up my triple master because of a 'change' I would be livid.
JTGAlpha
Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:57 pm
#55
Someone's going to be livid no matter what. It's about what's best for the profession. Add pre-reqs affect the past. Subtract pre-reqs: affect the future. Change pre-reqs: affect both.
Iniaes
Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:32 pm
#56
JTGAlpha wrote:
...and more helpful to the smugglers who explore the crafting half and not just the combat half of the profession if an Artisan skill were available.
Thing is, there isn't a crafting half and combat half. There's a crafting quarter and combat quarter, with a service quarter and a sorta weird quarter that will in time be our profession definer. Very much like BHs aren't half pistoleer / half commando / half carbineer / half BH.
I highly doubt they'd do anything to force new prereqs on existing classes. It'd be a conversion nightmare, kinda like the Jedi have now. If anything, they drop some or give us options. To be honest, I don't think they should. If some class had a persuasion line I'd think differently.
When you boil it down a smuggler is just the guy who gets the cargo from A to B. Nothing suggests he's an independant operator, although he might be. If Jabba asks me to move some spice from a storehouse on Tat to Corellia, is he expecting me to negotiate terms of payment when I get there? He's the business guy, I'm just the one that knows the best way past patrols and can shoot my way through (or away from) them if worse comes to worse.
ViperOSU
Wed Jun 30, 2004 9:09 pm
#57
w00t, not sure that we NEED a change in skill pre-requisites, but we DO need better skils that come as a RESULT of the pre-requisite skills, for example what is being done to the dirty fighting tree. All I see is: More LOVE for the smuggler, give it to me Devs! I crave the attention!
Although this whole "slicing tools from crates" thing sit uneasy with me 
Zeilik
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:23 pm
#58
I believe pistols would be fine as a pre req but I would like the option to go either fencer or tk since fencer also seems to fit us...even better after dual batons and dual pistols
now that would be fun
now that would be fun
JTGAlpha
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:37 am
#59
I'm sorry, but I thought we were supposed to be a hybrid profession. And since half our profession is crafting or related to crafting and the other half is combat or related to combat, I thougt it was a hybrid of crafting and combat, not of melee and ranged combat. Underworld business isn't like running a lemonade stand. Everyone is trying to get over on you and will gladly put you in the dirt to do so. I'd say it would take MORE business accumen to make a simple deal in the Underworld than in the straight world simply because you're dealing with criminals and con artists on a daily basis. Han Solo was a business man. Not a kungfu gunslinger.
Okay. I've said it. I'm not going to argue this with anyone. I've done it too many times before and we never get anywhere.
Smuggler_Caylin
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:47 am
#60
Hehehe we've had to agree to disagree on this for a long time
JTGAlpha wrote:
I'm sorry, but I thought we were supposed to be a hybrid profession. And since half our profession is crafting or related to crafting and the other half is combat or related to combat, I thougt it was a hybrid of crafting and combat, not of melee and ranged combat. Underworld business isn't like running a lemonade stand. Everyone is trying to get over on you and will gladly put you in the dirt to do so. I'd say it would take MORE business accumen to make a simple deal in the Underworld than in the straight world simply because you're dealing with criminals and con artists on a daily basis. Han Solo was a business man. Not a kungfu gunslinger.
Okay. I've said it. I'm not going to argue this with anyone. I've done it too many times before and we never get anywhere.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
mrbleepbleep
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:58 am
#61
JTGAlpha wrote:
I'm sorry, but I thought we were supposed to be a hybrid profession. And since half our profession is crafting or related to crafting and the other half is combat or related to combat, I thougt it was a hybrid of crafting and combat, not of melee and ranged combat. Underworld business isn't like running a lemonade stand. Everyone is trying to get over on you and will gladly put you in the dirt to do so. I'd say it would take MORE business accumen to make a simple deal in the Underworld than in the straight world simply because you're dealing with criminals and con artists on a daily basis. Han Solo was a business man. Not a kungfu gunslinger.
Okay. I've said it. I'm not going to argue this with anyone. I've done it too many times before and we never get anywhere.
I would agree in principle, except I don't think that the Business skill tree in SWG represents that kind of business sense. It seems to bemore straightforward trading - access fees, bazaar sales, and vendors. The kind of business sense you describe is face-to-face player interaction, not something that skill boxes can cover.
I'm not looking to argue either BTW, just putting in my own 2c 
WesBelden
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:19 am
#63
Master smuggler, BH 1-1-4-4, Master Marksman, Scout 4-1-0-0 anyone? 
"Ah! I'm on the terminal!"
/emote shoots self in the face and collects the bounty.
"Well, it's painfull, but it'scertainly good money!"
On another note, praise the Force! BHs can stop playing the age oldskill point argument, hurrah! Not to mention get aditional skills that are actually useful to them (hurray for them 
)
)When's this going live then? I'm almost tempted to drop Master Pistoleer and TKM just for the pleasure of being useful witha pistol and being able to chase myself (eventually).
Sapperlight
Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:53 am
#64
Wes, you may want to check out the BH boards before you change templates. Right now, on the eve of the jedi flood gates opening, BH can't track jedi (broken droids) and can't kill them (no TEF). This change is a desparate, knee-jerk reaction because that profession has been nerfed and bugged into such a state of weakness that they have no chance of controlling the jedi population that will soon overwhelm us.
It's a sad state of affairs when the two most iconic professions in the game are broken yet the continuity breaking sea of jedi are the sole focus of the develpers.
Raph Koster, help!
Iniaes
Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:17 am
#65
JTGAlpha wrote:
I disagree.
That's why I love the smuggler forum. When we disagree, it's followed up by the reasoning behind it and not "no u r wrong. u suk"