Smuggler Archive
Thread: The CU and YOU
EN quit last May, you know. That's nearly 11 months ago. Not saying your sentiment's wrong, Nick (though my banning in this forum was just last month
), but those old guys have been away now for longer than they ever played.We're still here.
WookieBounty wrote:
I have read over the docs...and i LOVE the idea of being in charge of CC...
I play a Mage in WoW and they are very much CC roles...reading the docs actually makes me wanna play again...
Hoping its well worth the wait...
cya on the TS..whenever
No it's a lot different, smuggler will get no damage, some shi*ty delay attacks possibly AoEs so they can call them CC. Then some posture to kneel or something completely ubsurd that will maybe be an AoE (that will probably be broken). All you will do is slice and spice.
Ternque01 wrote:
NickHeel wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
Wes has in no way shape or form lost his spine. He has fought for us and I have no doubt that he will continue to fight for us. Wes' spine > Joras' Spine
WesBelden wrote:
It's ok Joras, I think that one was aimed at me
fishbrains wrote:
If you are implying that I am one of those that is loosing his spine you are sadly mistaken. My ban record spaeks for it's self
I would not call Wes spineless. And there are more "community leaders" than those not on the Sand-Box team. Regulars to the forum even. There are many who have become complacent with whatever is given to theminstead of going for what they need and deserve.
However, there are a few people that have lost their edge. A lot of them have the general idea down and want it but in the endreally just sit back and let things happen.
The "Yeah, it'd be nice...but whatch'ya gonna do? /shrug" stance is on the rise and it saddens me.
Okay, I'm gonna have to call you on this one. What exactly should we be be up in arms about anyways??? What kind of a role do you see that would put you up in arms about the one that we now see before us???
Smugglers aren't, and were never designed to be, heavy damage dealers. We sure as hell aren't tanks. What the hell should we be???
To be honest I think that crowd control is a very appropriate role for smugglers. Why??? Well, for starters we should excell at handlinga larger enemy force through our trade. We should know crafty tricks to use to put enemies at bay. The pistol is a small, lightly damaging weapon, and if you are going to use it, you might as well learn to use it to control an enemy as opposed to just blowing it into smitherines. We have effective and tactful specials and role.
You may be upset, but come on, what the hell should we be doing anyways??? This is perfect. This was our dirty fighting role before all of the skills were nerfed to hell. To top the damn thing off, we now will have the role of being able to evade/control a bounty hunter, which solves a BIG problem concerning player bounties for smugglers.
I am not going to get upset or full of hot air for no damn reason at all. We will have the ability to manipulate large groups of enemies, what more could a smuggler be useful for in combat???
Do not ever take me for someone who just takes a dev blow in the rear and shrugs it off. I am too intelligent for that. I have a few wishes for smuggler in this game: (1) that a REAL contraband/underworld system be implemented, (2) that a meaningful player smuggling system be developed, and (3) that we have player bounties for greedy smugglers. #1 is difficult to put in, but is making strides. #2 is doable with the current smuggling revamp idea. #3 sure as hell better come.
Take that edge you want smugglers to have and cram it. There are more effective ways to get things done at times, and I don't need to play a "tough", "hardass" smuggler to effect changes. It is, indeed, a poor tactic to take at times, and I am so sick of this fake, hardass attitude that some think people around here should carry. I get that attitude on occasion when I get pissed about waitingfor years on end, but the devs just skip right over that grizzled, negative, pessimistic crap that is spewed around here.
I am GLAD about our CU role. I like it. Why should I fight it? I am done with this portion of our community that feels we should be grizzled. Take your disappointment of our forums and keep it to yourself. I do not accept it. No thank you.
After all, how long have smugglers been tough, hardasses, and how well has it worked so far? It doesn't work well. There are a few things that DO work well: bad publicity and time. Wookiees started bad publicity, Veela started bad publicity, and I don't have access to those resources, so I put my investment in time. I am done ranting on this f'ing garbage.
Well said. I think the changes are a definate step in the right direction, and this isn't even our revamp...this is a small part...a small part of what our profession will be doing. I am anxious for the combat system change. Eventhough, I have decided to give up master pikeman because of it, I probably won't look back...I will find another profession that will fill in nicely. I have always wanted to try commando....
Ternque01 wrote:
NickHeel wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
Wes has in no way shape or form lost his spine. He has fought for us and I have no doubt that he will continue to fight for us. Wes' spine > Joras' Spine
WesBelden wrote:
It's ok Joras, I think that one was aimed at me
fishbrains wrote:
If you are implying that I am one of those that is loosing his spine you are sadly mistaken. My ban record spaeks for it's self
I would not call Wes spineless. And there are more "community leaders" than those not on the Sand-Box team. Regulars to the forum even. There are many who have become complacent with whatever is given to theminstead of going for what they need and deserve.
However, there are a few people that have lost their edge. A lot of them have the general idea down and want it but in the endreally just sit back and let things happen.
The "Yeah, it'd be nice...but whatch'ya gonna do? /shrug" stance is on the rise and it saddens me.
Okay, I'm gonna have to call you on this one. What exactly should we be be up in arms about anyways??? What kind of a role do you see that would put you up in arms about the one that we now see before us???
Smugglers aren't, and were never designed to be, heavy damage dealers. We sure as hell aren't tanks. What the hell should we be???
To be honest I think that crowd control is a very appropriate role for smugglers. Why??? Well, for starters we should excell at handlinga larger enemy force through our trade. We should know crafty tricks to use to put enemies at bay. The pistol is a small, lightly damaging weapon, and if you are going to use it, you might as well learn to use it to control an enemy as opposed to just blowing it into smitherines. We have effective and tactful specials and role.
You may be upset, but come on, what the hell should we be doing anyways??? This is perfect. This was our dirty fighting role before all of the skills were nerfed to hell. To top the damn thing off, we now will have the role of being able to evade/control a bounty hunter, which solves a BIG problem concerning player bounties for smugglers.
I am not going to get upset or full of hot air for no damn reason at all. We will have the ability to manipulate large groups of enemies, what more could a smuggler be useful for in combat???
Do not ever take me for someone who just takes a dev blow in the rear and shrugs it off. I am too intelligent for that. I have a few wishes for smuggler in this game: (1) that a REAL contraband/underworld system be implemented, (2) that a meaningful player smuggling system be developed, and (3) that we have player bounties for greedy smugglers. #1 is difficult to put in, but is making strides. #2 is doable with the current smuggling revamp idea. #3 sure as hell better come.
Take that edge you want smugglers to have and cram it. There are more effective ways to get things done at times, and I don't need to play a "tough", "hardass" smuggler to effect changes. It is, indeed, a poor tactic to take at times, and I am so sick of this fake, hardass attitude that some think people around here should carry. I get that attitude on occasion when I get pissed about waitingfor years on end, but the devs just skip right over that grizzled, negative, pessimistic crap that is spewed around here.
I am GLAD about our CU role. I like it. Why should I fight it? I am done with this portion of our community that feels we should be grizzled. Take your disappointment of our forums and keep it to yourself. I do not accept it. No thank you.
After all, how long have smugglers been tough, hardasses, and how well has it worked so far? It doesn't work well. There are a few things that DO work well: bad publicity and time. Wookiees started bad publicity, Veela started bad publicity, and I don't have access to those resources, so I put my investment in time. I am done ranting on this f'ing garbage.
I have to agree with Ternque on this one. My spine is in the posts I have posted,..my guts in the time I've spent in this game.I have nothing to really say about the new things happening. I haven't played it yet. It looks good, but who really knows till we get our mitts on it.
If I don't like it,..I will post I do not like it. If others don't like it, I will read why they don't like it. As a community we effect change when we can through our feedback. We win some, we prolly lose more but we try and that is the bottom line.
secretbuyer wrote:
No it's a lot different, smuggler will get no damage, some shi*ty delay attacks possibly AoEs so they can call them CC. Then some posture to kneel or something completely ubsurd that will maybe be an AoE (that will probably be broken). All you will do is slice and spice.
WookieBounty wrote: I have read over the docs...and i LOVE the idea of being in charge of CC... I play a Mage in WoW and they are very much CC roles...reading the docs actually makes me wanna play again... Hoping its well worth the wait... cya on the TS..whenever
Maybe you haven't read about the spice revamp, but smugglers will loose the spice tree. So i doubt our role wil be only slice and spice.
NickHeel wrote:
I don't want toargue with anyone so I'll say all this and you can rant and rave and do what you want, I won't care. My point is made and stands as is: I just want some ability in the Smuggler profession that can do damage on its own. If I have to pick up Pistoleer or another profession to get off the ground in my current one (Smuggler), then we're back to square one, just with a shiny new coat of wax.
I too like the crowd control role. I liked it back on January the 7th when I first learned we were "mezzers" and I saved the CU roles diagram to my hard drive. It fits us nicely. I just want us to be able to do something other than delay and run away. I don't know if that's all we'll do or not...I certainly hope that's not all but I'm just saying I'll be upset if it is. And from all intents and purposes and past history, I have a reason to be a bit worried.
Pistoleer
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Smuggler
Primary Role: Crowd Control Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate(3)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Very Strong(5)
As you can see the smugglers will deal better dmg than pistoleer, will better Crowd Control than pistoleer but will get less defence than pistoleer.
I doubt you will have to get pistoleer for better dmg dealing, maybe for better speed and defence, and for doing dmg on your own seems smuggler will be better than pistoleer.
And what makes me hope is this lines from the document:
Smugglers are the dominant Crowd Control profession.
Smugglers abilities combine well with many other profession abilities and will be vital in dealing with high end group content.
Message Edited by Atanmir on 03-30-2005 01:32 AM
Aheh.
Even so, I'll be on Test Center determining this for myself before I let myself get angry about it. I've been mad about this profession for a long, long time, so long I got sick of it and did grow apathetic. I'd like to think I'm vigilant again, but I've been trying to reserve my cynicism for when I'm certain it's deserved rather than letting it boil over at the first whiff of potential trouble.
seamus121 wrote:
How will combat xp now work? If we are dealing minimal damage will we get minimal xp as well, while the scores of rifleman will get all the xp?
i dunno but Exp --> FS exp ratio BETTER be lowered...
While there are several things that are not included with our revamp *at this moment* it does not mean they will never be included. In april of... last year? They had no details, no real plan. Just a couple moves in dirty fighting, two spices and a few token missions. What they are proposing is much more than what they had then, so I gave them credit for it.
Will smuggling without real player interaction be largely meaningless? Yes, I believe so. Do you think I like that? Do you think ANY of us who have fought for so long want that?
I'm not going to kick down the gates when it isn't included here when there is the potential of adding so much else though. I will continue to ask and push for player smuggling and player bounties till they are sick of hearing of it. I'm not going to say the revamp will suck because of the exclusion of items that due to whatever reasoning they have at this time they are unable to add. I don't believe the revamp is horrible, I simply believe it is not living up to it's potential and what they have does not lessen that. It does create a foundation for it to be added to for later though.
We're so off-topic here it isn't funny. The fight we want to have will not happen when the opponent simply isn't going to spar with us. My fear is in the CU due to the things I know but can't say. The arguments continue yet remain without a response or even a small amount of recognition.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
In case people have forgotten, this is the SMUGGLER Forum. We DO NOT turn on one another. Ever. We disagree, we may argue. But nothing gets personal, nobody gets flamed. We sit and discuss our issues like the prepared, insightful, mature players that we are. We may be of the Underworld, but that does not mean we treat our own community as though we were raised in the sewer.
I don't disagree with us being a crowd control profession. I think it does in fact fit into our reputations and fighting style. And I like that we'll be important in group-combat once again.
That being said, Nick has several valid points. If (and not knowing anything, it's still speculation) the Dirty Fighting tree is still ground out through Pistol XP, there could be an issue in how a primarily crowd-control profession builds up that XP. Think how much a pain it is to do DF without Pistoleer. The current (pre-CU) incarnation of Smuggler specials are, for the most part, consistent with a crowd control role. FD as escape, LowBlow and PanicShot as delay. The exception, of course, is LastDitch, which you receive upon filling out that tree.
Also, pre-CU Pistoleer specials tend to be Offensive in nature, steadily increasing DPS output. If, based on the Profession Roles Map, Pistoleer skills also go into the Crowd Control role, we'll be working with a redundant set of skills. This will make grinding that tree even more difficult than it currently is in addition to the increased difficult the CU is supposed to bring to general profession grinding. (For that matter, Pistoleer and Carbineer hold that same crowd control role, one with a heavier offensive bent, the other a heavier defensive bent.)
Secondly, Nick also seems to be correct in beleiving the CU looks excessivly "Everquesty." I've never played EQ or EQ2, but again the Profession Role Map continues to have a melee profession bias. There are no real defensive ranged professions. There are more "balanced" melee combinations than there are ranged. A Swordsman/TKA, Fencer/TKA, Swordsman/Pikeman, seems capable of receiving strong damage, tanking and crowd control modifiers. When it comes to Ranged, the Rifleman still looks to be the end-all/be-all of combat. Though BH/Pistoleer might become the uber-template again.
Also, while we may not want to admit it, many of us have been rather complacent lately. I disagree that we need to scream and shout to the devs to get attention, but it does seem we have sorta accepted what we're given. I'll be the first to admit that i've lost a little of my fire lately, though i'll scapegoat my search for a new job for some of that
. But, looking at the In Concept notes, we've really gotten quiet over there with maybe only 3 or 4 posts total a day on each. And the only real talk in the first place was the "to Bounty, or not to Bounty." I'd still like to hear more on how we can incorpoarate Ternque's methods of turning the proposed Smuggling System into more the Player-Smuggling we've been dreaming of. AND whether or not spices and slices will be contraband on vendors. And how i can move people through enemy controled area. etc. I haven't posted much the last few weeks because, until tonight, the vast majority of our threads have been the standard slicing/FP Sales questions, Post-CU Template ideas. And while our community is still sound and tight-knit, we do seem to have lost a little of the fire that drives us. Getting our dialogues back together, whatever. But, as always, we need to stand together as a unified front.