CUEmu - Thread Posts

Fatismo

Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:11 am

FeynBarich wrote:
The smuggler revamp is just like Doom 3 and HL2... it will only come out when you stop thinking about it.

Ermmm... You mean Duke Nukem: Forever.... Cause It takes that long for a revamp to occur!!!!! Forever

Oh well.. Just another shameless bash!

Naven Frypock

Smuggler - Corbantis

Naven Frypock
(Master Doctor / Master Smuggler - Corbantis)

Sengis

Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:59 am

#67

id appreciate it as asmuggler /pistoler if at least one ofmy proffessions worked as it should do, forget the revamp, i just want my brokenmoves, to work

ex Colonel Sengis Ghean NVA

Founder, Arroyo, Dantooine and NVA - I²D²

Master Smuggler since 01/04 | | Spice for sale PST

"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres

Capt_Baobab

Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:14 pm

#68

speaking of Proffessions, I was crusing the stratics, and came across this little bit of info in the Rumor Control Article;

" 1. There are 4 new professions: Alliance Pilot, Imperial Pilot, Basic Pilot, Shipwright

Essentially true. There will be four new professions, including the Shipwright (makes ships), the Imperial Pilot (fly for the Empire) and the Rebel Pilot (fly for the Alliance). We're actually calling the "Basic Pilot" a Privateer - a mercenary pilot rather than a faction-affiliated pilot. Progression through all three of the piloting professions will require XP (gained by fighting enemies in space) and completion of story-driven mission arcs (as an Imperial, you might be asked to deal with a Rebel presence in the Tatooine system, a mission arc that culminates in a showdown with a Rebel fighter ace)."

they're calling the pilot class "Privateer"? does this mean that EVERYONE who isn't going faction or shipwright would be able to smuggle? are we getting nerfed again?

R.I.P. Chenlambec 6-23-04 to 8.9.05. Rogue Wookie,Smuggler, and Go To Wookie for Radical Limb Removal.
"I was born a smuggler, and I died a smuggler, and only the spicefiends mourned my passing."
The Inimitable Capt. Baobab

JediArashi

Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:34 pm

#69

I'll say it astrus, your being ridiculous. You obviously are fairly new around here and have experienced far less of the affects of these delays and broken promises as some of us old timers. Your views are the same ones that have come up everytime there been a delay and everytime some "nerf" comes along, which is why it all sounds so trivial coming from you.

I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it just seems like your trying to create an attitude that has no place in this community. Our community has never been about whining to get what we want and throwing a 12 year-old temper tantrum. Regardless of what it seems, the Devs do pay far more attention to the non-whiners then the whiners. You cite the BH changes as though they are actual revamps. They are not, they have never been revamped. They have had some changes put in, but all the professions have...just some are better then others.

The BH changes aren't there because the BH's whined. It's because with the Jedi revamp they realized that BH's didn't stack up well as the "population control" mecahnism for the Jedi. Just because there wer BH's whining about that fact doesn't mean that is what turned the devs attention there. I think maybe Caylin took his approach in this thread wrong, maybe he should've pointed out where the BH, Chef, and DE correspondants didn't whine and they got kick-ass revamps. (if that is true of course, I wouldn't know)

They have stated numerous times that they pay more attention to, and keep better tabs on the forums that remain constructive, that's the kind of attention we want. Whether it means being pushed off doesn't matter, the fact that we have been a constructive community means that we are more likely to get a lot of the things we ask for once the revamp comes. I like that option better.

The fact that GM is working on our revamp in his spare time is a testament to our community, do you think if we were whiney **edit** that he would want todevote his own time to us? I think not.

We did have a revamp coming, Caylin said it in his post, but you must have missed it. We had a crappy revamp coming...it was all done. It was complete crap, there was nothing that we'd been asking for in there and we systematically rejected it. Yes, we as a community went against what you stated you would prefer, and chose to have our revamp delayed instead of having a crappy one. The devs listened to us, and that is where we are at.

Did we want to keep being pushed back? No, of course not. Did we want a kick-ass revamp that would make us hold our heads up high? Hell yeah! Were we willing to wait it out awhile to get said kick-ass revamp? Absolutely, nearly to a man (or woman) all of the active Smugglers of this community opted to wait and get the revamp we wanted.

You are by far in the minority in your opinion Astrus. I feel your frustration, I've been feeling it since June 26th 2003. For a lot of great Smugglers, enough was enough long long ago. We salute our fallen comrades, but the game goes on, and so do the Smugglers.

However, the result of our patience thus far has been great input into what changes are made. We have put numerous hours into revamp proposals that are floating in the devs heads everytime they think about things to add to us. We will get a lot more of what we asked for then any other profession has, because that is the reward for patience and understanding.

PS - Caylin, thanks for the posts, it shines well upon you that you were willing to take the risk to justify yourself. Keep fighting the good fight.

-Arashi

Bloodfin

Arashi - The one and only "Agent Zero"

Proud member of the greatest community around....Smuggler for life!

SeraCohw

Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:24 pm

#70

all i know is smugglers beter get a dam good spacecraft only they can fly in the expansio to make up for the crap now like being useless

Astrus

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:59 am

#71

Astrus wrote:

"Ridiculous" ?....go read the (BH) forums and just look at the DEV responses bro....then come back and try to hand me my ass again if handing it to me means that much to you. Cause you failed this go around.

\/,,

This is how that last sentence shouldve read....and if i have anymore typos please forgive me ^_^ This doesnt mean THAT much to me just yet hehe.

/bow

1011010011001000000001100001010110101011       A s t r u s  
0100000110100001001111011001011011100011
1110110100101011111000000101011101011110     "The Rebel Himself..."
1010101000110001101010010001000110011100     
0111111101101010011111111110111111001000     Elder Politician
0111011001010111000011111101100000001100     Guild Master of SancTuarY
1111101111100111110110011101010011000011
0101111111110010010110111100000010001000     www.sanct-guild.com

slugeater

Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:40 am

#72

Seems like I'm going to enter the omen business. "I see....smuggler revamp delayed....and 20$ out of your pocket into miiiiine."

Well, serves me right to get yearly subscriptions at launch. JTL had better be GOOD if they went me to pay even 1 month more.

Sluggy Devlya
Master Smuggler-Politician
Avian City-Talus-Chilastra
Best way to deal with the tall guys is to give them incentives to lick the ground. And dont look down on me that way youre not THAT taller.

ZeckAzuenden

Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:33 am

#73

I don't even want to see these boards when we actually get the revamp, and it's aempty shell of most of the things discussed. Lot of whats being tossed around is really cool and what smugglers should be, but lets be honest here; how many of you actually think that they will take the time to code it up properly considering the amount of work that will need to be done?

I'd have to say I'm less annoyed by the constant delays than I am by SOE realeasing a paid expansion before fixing the game we have already paid for. True, they got the little "Gamplay may change" clause going for them, but hey, there is a line between change and "it's a broken peice of unfun crap"

Now, for those of you that keep up with EQ, you will see they got into major hot water and are backpedaling like made because of a huge amount of backlash from the community for releasing another expansion while the current one was still broken. People finnaly got sick of it. Btw, ya'll are right, it's the money grubbing bean counters at SOE corporate that are shoveling incomplete crap down your throats, not the devs. Why are Jedi getting all the attention? Why are Jedi going to be commonplace now? Simple, some bean counter did a study and found that having lots of Jedi will sell more boxs and more subscriptions. Why does SOE not care that so many things are not fixed? Simple, because we aren't cancelling and boycotting their expansion.

Did people honestly think that SOE changed their approach over on the EQ side cause they cared? Well, if by cared you mean they saw a significant change in their revenue stream and community image, then yeah, they cared. When all your top guilds that are known game wide decide to up and cancell on ya and the bulk of the community websites/fansites are calling for a boycott, then they change their tune.

Want to grab their attention, cancell. The devs listen to us, the bean counters listen to our credit cards. You want SOE to change, the money guys are the ones you want listening.

Zeck Ravenclaw
BH,day one player, Eclipse

JediArashi

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:01 am

#74

Astrus wrote:

JediArashi wrote:

I'll say it astrus, your being ridiculous. You obviously are fairly new around here and have experienced far less of the affects of these delays and broken promises as some of us old timers........

....I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, it just seems like your trying to create an attitude that has no place in this community. Our community has never been about whining to get what we want and throwing a 12 year-old temper tantrum....

....The BH changes aren't there because the BH's whined. It's because with the Jedi revamp they realized that BH's didn't stack up well as the "population control" mecahnism for the Jedi.......

....You are by far in the minority in your opinion Astrus....

1st....Look at my register date and youll see that you Ive been around long enough to have enough experience....shame on your for the assumption.

- Equally shame on you for yours. I was referring to the Smuggler Community forums for which you have not participated at all untile very recently...hence the "around here".

2nd...If you dont want to imply any disrespect...try to leave out implications that a 30 year old man (who is sick of PAYING for a game in which his profession of choice is being utterly ignored) is throwing a 12 year old temper tantrum.

- Again, you are assuming that I am speaking of you personally, don't take these comments as a personal affront; that is not the intent. Having an entire community whine t oget what they want is the equavelant of a twelve year-old temper tantrum. Don't read into something that's not there.

3rd....and anyone who says that changes were NOT made in this game, due to BH whining in thier forums, seems to be the one who doesnt have "experience" in what really goes on in this game.

- There is simply no way that this can be proved. Any of the changes that were made to BH's could just as easily been done at the same time that they were whining, so that it looks like they got a change as a result. I would expect that the BH correspondant did not whine and complain in the correspondant forums to get a change. Did the Chef community whine as much as Jedi do to get their revamp? No, I was dabbling in Chef around that time and did not see nearly the level of whining in those forums...yet they got a great revamp.

The fact is that there is going to always be people complaining all the time, there is always something that needs to be fixed, changed, or overhauled. Just because a change comes, doesn't mean that the people who were screaming for a change were heard and instituted the change.

4th ...You need to read the majority of complaint posts on this forum brother....IF im the MINORITY in the smuggler community then that means that most everyone who is a smuggler thinks that the profession works just fine as it is....

- I do read nearly all the threads here, and your failing to see the significance between complaining, and whining. There have been a few threads, a lot of them just after the formal revamp delay announcement, that stated flat out by some of our more outspoken community members that indeed the profession works just fine the way it is. It does. However it is not working the way all of us feel it should be. The potential is great, and what we have falls flat of that potential. There are few things in our profession that is "broken" there are just a lot of things we should have but don't....mainly content.The reality of that hit when we worked on the last revamp document, in the section for broken skills and abilities to be fixed (as in bug fixes) we didn't have bloody much. Most of it was documentation more then anything.

"Ridiculous" ?....go read the forums and just look at the DEV responses bro....then come back and try to hand me my ass again if handing it to me means that much to you. Cause you failed this go around.

\/,,

I by no means want to "hand you your ass". I just want you to see that whining will get us nowhere. It will only make us just as bad as the BH's and Jedi. It will provide us with a sub-par revamp thats slapped together, and we won't get any attention for another year and a half. I'd rather wait another couple of months to get a revamp that will do what we want it to, and not have to worry about more changes in a year from now.

Go check out the 19Answers thread that TH put up in May (or whenever it was) that had the revamp items in it and tell me that you would have wanted it knowing that in exchange we would not get anything else for over a year.

Look, I can agree to disagree with you on this, I just don't want you to take it all personally. This medium is wide open for assumption and misconstruing of someones message. I don't want to see this community fall into the trap that others have where the threads turn to nothing but **edit**-fests aimed at the devs. It's not healthy for the game, and it doesn't work the way you think it might. It pushes them away more then anything.

Hopefully Caylin can really lay into them at the "summit" and make sure that we don't get pushed aside. The fact that GM has done as much as he has though, is evidence to our patience and understanding garnering attention....the kind that we want.

-Arashi

Bloodfin

Arashi - The one and only "Agent Zero"

Proud member of the greatest community around....Smuggler for life!

JodoKai

Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:43 am

#75

Jasnyx wrote:
I feel bad for you correspondent's, i mean you guys/girls are just players like the rest of us. what i can't understand is how you can not be as dissapointed with these devs as so many of us old time players are after paying forover a year for a broken product, and constanly beinglied to.

I didn't read the whole thread but I wanted to comment on this:

The Correspondants get to read all of the messages about all the professions on their boards. This gives them an insight to what most people don't want to hear: There is more professions than just one. There are professions that are in worse shape than smuggler. You want to feel good about being a smuggler try being a Squad Leader for awhile, that will make you appreciate everything smuggler has. Or how about CH? They went through the combat rebalance months ago, where no one else has. They are like mortals in the realm of the gods. What about Ranger that is an incredible skill point sink that is made totally useless by being able to call pets/vehicles without a camp, the harvest bonus is negated by droids and Chef foods, tracking can't find anything closer than 150m, and the Devs stated at Fanfest they have no idea how to make it better. Sure we see adding new dances stupid and friviouls, but but if you were an entertainer you'd be happy about it. Plus it was probably an easy fix that didn't take much dev time or resources.

All I'm asking is before people get all bent out of shape, try to look at the big picture and realize that no matter what board you go to, there are people in that profession that are up in arms saying their profession is the most broken and needs the most attention first.

Bzzzz

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:25 am

#76

JediArashi wrote:

However, the result of our patience thus far has been great input into what changes are made. We have put numerous hours into revamp proposals that are floating in the devs heads everytime they think about things to add to us. We will get a lot more of what we asked for then any other profession has, because that is the reward for patience and understanding.

While I otherwise agree with you, I haven't seen a lot of evidence that they actually read any of our design proposals. If that were true, why would they ask us fornew onesevery week? And why was the lastproposed revamp so far off the mark? It looks more along the lines of busywork, and in that regard ithasworked brilliantly.

While I concede that they were more than willing to REDUCE their workload and cut a poorly designed revamp, I don't see how that translates into getting much new content later on. Why? Will we pay any more for it? Will more people sign up for new substo play smugglers?? Will the rest of the community applaud our improvement?

On the last question, I doubt it. The Stratics poll pretty well summed it up: More content for us means less for everyone else, and they soundly rejected us.

Zz

jbezorg

Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:33 am

#77

JediArashi wrote:

<snip>

I by no means want to "hand you your ass". I just want you to see that whining will get us nowhere. It will only make us just as bad as the BH's and Jedi. It will provide us with a sub-par revamp thats slapped together, and we won't get any attention for another year and a half. I'd rather wait another couple of months to get a revamp that will do what we want it to, and not have to worry about more changes in a year from now.

<snip>

-Arashi

Bloodfin

Exactly, Market Research Analysts probably said "Research indicates that we'll generate more revenue if there Player Jedi in the game. Put Jedi in the game by the end of the month." and you know what? They probably pointed to the forums where peopled complained that they wanted to play Jedi as proof.

So what did we get? Holo grind that ruined the game for most and the delay in everything else because of the need to fix the grind. A halt in the production schedule necessary to fix the mess as well as the loss in man hours that resulted in the devs having to rush out the Jedi addition and then having to go back and rework Jedi, then fix BH because the changes in Jedi, ... this list of the necessary fixes to correct the introduction of Jedi to soon in the game is probably a mile long. The loss of man hours is probably staggering. Not to mention the loss of revenue because of over all customer satisfaction is low.

So should history repeat itself? Should smugglers push for a revamp now which would most likely not meet our expectations? No. It's stupid not to learn from the holo grind mistake. If anything, the holo grind mistake illustrates that capitulating to the complainers is the last thingSOE wants to do.

I want the revamp and I want it done right the first time and this should apply to any change. It's simply the best approach because it's more efficient. I will see the devs adding content rather than going back and fixing things.

If you feel that the game is unplayable, don't play. If you've paid for the game in advance, talk politely to a customer service rep about a pro-rated refund. Depending on the SOE's refund policy, you may or may not getit but the reason why you want to quit will most likely go into SOE's market research database.

"There's one, frag her ass" - What the Storm Trooper who spotted Leia should have said
/panicshot - "You have succefully delayed the smuggler revamp 10 seconds"

RylanStorm

Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:29 pm

#78

"The way you get things worked onin the correspondent system does not revolve around pitching a fit, whining and bitching about your problems. If that was what we did on the c-forum, nothing would be accomplished. "

Caylin. I appreciate your work and would never wish to be detrimental to anything you have done for us. I dofeel you are a very active correspondent who had done us a great service. But with this statement I need you to understand why things, I feel, are going wrong.

Whilst it's easy to argue that the best way is the reasoned, well thought out and considered way, it simply is not possible for us, as a community, to understate the importance of "a good whine". Their is only one language that SOE has ever understood; Money. When 500 Jedi all get together and threaten to cancel their accounts two forces come into play. Firstly Sony don't want the loss of revenue, and secondly they don't want the bad publicity that that brings.

But a tradeoff was made since with all the whining many of them earned the disrespect of the player base. They have managed to pull out of the bag not one, but two good publishes.

I am not suggesting that we all get together and whine, simply that we make our statements and as a community we stand by them. Yet with each failed promise there are still smugglers who could be called nothing but "fanboys"

These people have the audacity to tell us to wait patiently whilst deadline after deadline goes un-noticed. These people serve no purpose to our profession other then tomake the developers excuses for them. It is these excuses which must be stamped out because whilst we have our own people telling us that we should not expect to have our class fixed we cannothope for it to happen.I'm personally happy to wait till after Jump to Lightspeed, I've accepted this but I will not stand by and be understanding and patient when Greenmarine makes a promise to post the underworld information and hasn't been seen in three weeks.

It is time for us as a community to stand togetherand demand the correspondence and attentionthat we so obviously need because with all due respect I do not see that your service, not matterhow good it has been,has produced results. Not because of anything you have done but because you lack the full support from your community which has been presented to many other of your fellow correspondents.

What is becoming clear though is that with every passing week in which our continued neglect continues, these fanboys find it harder and harder to post in support of "overworked developers who have more important things on their plate's then a smuggler revamp" or tell us that a 30 second post from Greenmarine is too much to ask for since "he has very important things to do"

__________________________________________

Rylan Storm - Pistoleer
Master Smuggler

Rogue's Hideaway - Naboo - Sylvex

Eclipse Rocket Launcher and Proton Grenade Sale
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