Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smugglers forgotten AGAIN
RylanStorm wrote:
"The way you get things worked onin the correspondent system does not revolve around pitching a fit, whining and bitching about your problems. If that was what we did on the c-forum, nothing would be accomplished. "
Caylin. I appreciate your work and would never wish to be detrimental to anything you have done for us. I dofeel you are a very active correspondent who had done us a great service. But with this statement I need you to understand why things, I feel, are going wrong.
....
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Iwill willingly point to a large petition or some good posts in these forumsand say 'look' but I will not bring that attitude to the c-forum.
Ok, this thread has become much more important then I think any of us realized it would be. Kudos to Silversaber for starting it. I think it is glaringly obvious that I am in agreement with Caylin on his stated stance on "whining". However I recognize some of this communities "last ditch effort" so to speak in getting the devs attention.
In light of this I suggest that either Astrus, Rylan, or SS start a petition thread that is as well thought out and formulated as can be to garner the type of large post or petition that Caylin mentioned above.
Who knows,I may even sign it as well. Let Caylin do his job in the c-forums and if people feel they need "a good whine" to be heard then more power to you.
BTW- RylanStorm if I offended you in anyway thenI apologize; you have always been a strong voice in these forums, and I respect your opinion.
/bow
-Arashi
Bloodfin
Message Edited by JediArashi on 07-19-2004 08:18 PM
. Afterall, I have to do something while waiting to actually smuggle and move spice (as opposed to crafting spice) until the revamp happens.
Leitor wrote:
There is nothing I can do to hasten the CB or Smuggler revamp. Therefore, I will be picking up my copy of JTL when it hits the shelves (most likely I will have a copy on hold for me so that I do not lose out on day one and miss all the lag and crashing that is likely to occur :smileywink
Keep up the good fight Caylin. We are behind you 110%
What you can do is stop waiting, cancel your preorder and cancel your account. This they will listen to. EQ community pretty much proved it earlier this year. Course, you can wait. Some folks are not that unhappy about the state of the game, some are Right now I'm even on the edge of cancelling but haven't yet. The neverending delays are getting to me though.
And when I say they, I mean SOE and not the devs. No doubt in my mind that the devs care, but I really doubt TH or Greenmarine can go out and hire 5 or 6 new guys. And even if they went and hire those new guys today, probly be a min of 6 months to a year before they were really up to speed on a project like this.
Message Edited by ZeckAzuenden on 07-20-2004 06:13 AM
gomi321 wrote:i've given up on the smuggler revamp. My main profession is broken, so be it. So what do I do? I master Pistoleer...another broken profession. That's when I mastered TK. Now I have something that works right. I still wear my Master Smuggler title and will never drop it, but I seriously don't think we will see a revamp until next summer.
The game should live that long.
The game should live that long.
BlueCelt wrote:
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TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
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TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
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TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
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TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
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TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
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TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
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TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
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TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
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TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
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TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
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TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
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TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
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TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
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TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'll be preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week that will help everyone get on the same page for going forward
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TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
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TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
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TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
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TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
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TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
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TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
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TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
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TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?. It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
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TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
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TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be "the weapon" that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
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96)?96:this.scrollHeight)"
TH 7/15/04: I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes
Gary Gattis's State of the Game Letter (around pub 8!): We are cranking on the Combat Balance, and we think development on it will span 2 more publishes.
So...which is it? Were we lied too? mislead? or ???
Message Edited by BlueCelt on 07-16-2004 07:26 PM
Now. Something has to be done- we, not only as the smuggler community but as a player base, have to send a message to the bigwigs that something needs to happen. We are giving our ideas, paying our money, and supporting this game yet, we are on the pointy end of the stick when it comes to satisfaction.
People are screaming "cancel" and "boycott" but beneath it all we really like (and are addicted to) our characters and the people we have met through this game.
What I want to suggest is something that is not as drastic BUT would send a message and could probably even garner some publicity-
What if we all logged out for a week!
That's right. No one logs in game for a whole week. Instead we come here and voice our opinions. If we all did it that would say something. They haven't heard our screams so maybe they will hear our silence.
I tried that…oh wait, that was because they gave away my server hardware to the **self-edit** Jedi testing.
HOTDOG wrote:
What I want to suggest is something that is not as drastic BUT would send a message and could probably even garner some publicity-
What if we all logged out for a week!
That's right. No one logs in game for a whole week. Instead we come here and voice our opinions. If we all did it that would say something. They haven't heard our screams so maybe they will hear our silence.
RylanStorm wrote:
"The way you get things worked onin the correspondent system does not revolve around pitching a fit, whining and bitching about your problems. If that was what we did on the c-forum, nothing would be accomplished. "
Caylin. I appreciate your work and would never wish to be detrimental to anything you have done for us. I dofeel you are a very active correspondent who had done us a great service. But with this statement I need you to understand why things, I feel, are going wrong.
Whilst it's easy to argue that the best way is the reasoned, well thought out and considered way, it simply is not possible for us, as a community, to understate the importance of "a good whine". Their is only one language that SOE has ever understood; Money. When 500 Jedi all get together and threaten to cancel their accounts two forces come into play. Firstly Sony don't want the loss of revenue, and secondly they don't want the bad publicity that that brings.
But a tradeoff was made since with all the whining many of them earned the disrespect of the player base. They have managed to pull out of the bag not one, but two good publishes.
I am not suggesting that we all get together and whine, simply that we make our statements and as a community we stand by them. Yet with each failed promise there are still smugglers who could be called nothing but "fanboys"
These people have the audacity to tell us to wait patiently whilst deadline after deadline goes un-noticed. These people serve no purpose to our profession other then tomake the developers excuses for them. It is these excuses which must be stamped out because whilst we have our own people telling us that we should not expect to have our class fixed we cannothope for it to happen.I'm personally happy to wait till after Jump to Lightspeed, I've accepted this but I will not stand by and be understanding and patient when Greenmarine makes a promise to post the underworld information and hasn't been seen in three weeks.
It is time for us as a community to stand togetherand demand the correspondence and attentionthat we so obviously need because with all due respect I do not see that your service, not matterhow good it has been,has produced results. Not because of anything you have done but because you lack the full support from your community which has been presented to many other of your fellow correspondents.
What is becoming clear though is that with every passing week in which our continued neglect continues, these fanboys find it harder and harder to post in support of "overworked developers who have more important things on their plate's then a smuggler revamp" or tell us that a 30 second post from Greenmarine is too much to ask for since "he has very important things to do"
Money talks
SOE has invested a large sum of money and want to see a return on it's investment. The people involved in the creation of SWG have a more personal agenda, they would like to keep their jobs. With that in mind, issues that have an effect on the larger customer base will be addressed first. Unless you can convince SOE that a large customer base is adversely affected by holding back the smuggler revamp, it ain't ganna happen until such time that it is slated to happen. If any issues come up that have an effect on a larger customer base, then smuggler revamp will be pushed back along with any other revamp. And such an issues did. Yes there are only a handful of Jedi, but how many people informed SOE that they are playing SWG because they wanted to be a Jedi or wanted to be a BH that hunts Jedi?
There are whiners in every single profession. All of them are absolutely certain that their profession issues are so important that it demands immediate attention and threaten to quit if a resolution isn't forth coming. SOE has listened to what we want along with every other profession. They have taken note of the whiners who threaten to quit yet continue play and have determined that the threat is an empty one. Finally, they have done the math and have determined we can wait.
Okay, call me a "fanboy"
“fanboy” still has fun so sees no reason to quit.
People who complain post after posts about how the current situation is totally unacceptable yet continue to play confuse the hell out of me. Obviously, they continue to find value in something that is a "total waste of their time". The only way I can figure it is that they want everyone else to quit to make their protest for them without sacrificing their personal enjoyment.
"Fanboys" keeping you from you smuggler revamp? Pllleeeease! I bet there was what you called "fanboys" in the Jedi forums and that didn't stop the Jedi revamp. Nor the Chef’s, Image Designers, Droid Eng…
"fanboy" here realizes that no amount of bitching and whining is going to get him the smuggler revamp any sooner (see above). Any bitching and whining that coincided with another profession's revamp is probably coincidence (see above). Excessive bitching and whining will probably label me as a "whiner" and, given the choice, I would prefer the title "fanboy".
"fanboy" would ideally like to see resolutions being discussed rather then grip sessions about “we’ve been totally screwed” (HA! Yeah right. Snowball’s chance in hell! But hey, I did qualify that with an “ideally”).
HOTDOG wrote:People are screaming "cancel" and "boycott" but beneath it all we really like (and are addicted to) our characters and the people we have met through this game.
What I want to suggest is something that is not as drastic BUT would send a message and could probably even garner some publicity-
What if we all logged out for a week!
That's right. No one logs in game for a whole week. Instead we come here and voice our opinions. If we all did it that would say something. They haven't heard our screams so maybe they will hear our silence.
were you talking everone, as in the total sum of SGW playersa or the total Sum of Smugglers?
if we(smugglers) as a profession dropped out for a week, would it get their attention? How many people here get slice tells for weapons/armor/containers? even though we may seem like glorified Can openers at times, it might get their attention.. might...
Caine_Chapel wrote:
Hobbs_Nguyen Wrote:
The game should live that long.
I wouldn't worry hobbs... the game WILL live that long, despite all the doom saying =) as far as i know there have only been a FEW MMOs that have EVER shut down (m59 and E&B) and as far as i know most of them are still around... even UO. So i'm sure SWG is safe... even with its dwindling numbers (as this been proven?) it still has had more subscribers than 90% of the MMOs out there.