Smuggler Archive
Thread: Just a Quote & Clicky that Makes me a Sad Smuggler *Tiggs Posted Within*
Seems SOE will never do a damn thing to this CRUTIAL SWG prof.
Do yourself a favor, drop smuggler (i know, it's hard... made me feel down for 2 days).
Kamileon wrote:
Why don't we all act like b*tchy, spoiled, complaining children that attack the hand that is at least remotely starting to do something for our profession? Won't that help the revamp come along, and help us get what we want?
Instead of "Thank god, they're mentioning us" it's how much they've lied, how much they suck, how much they've ignored the smuggler community, and nothing but complaints.
Bleh.
I don't like this community when it gets like this.
NickHeel wrote:
Kamileon wrote:
Why don't we all act like b*tchy, spoiled, complaining children that attack the hand that is at least remotely starting to do something for our profession? Won't that help the revamp come along, and help us get what we want?
Instead of "Thank god, they're mentioning us" it's how much they've lied, how much they suck, how much they've ignored the smuggler community, and nothing but complaints.
Bleh.
I don't like this community when it gets like this.
QF teh MF'n E!!
You all know that acting like that isn't going to get the community anywhere. You're damaging everyone.
In fact, I was the one that PM'd Tiggs to look at this thread and try to get her to find out about the communication loop to see why we haven't heard whether we're being worked on and why we're not involved or whether we're pushed back and why we were told. She told me and I quote "I knew posting would stir the hornets nest but I still have hopes one day they take what I say at face value =)" At first, I was slightly offended by that. But now I see that she was right and I'm ashamed.
This is why SWG-Goliath ran off (not even his Ezekiel name has been around) and this is why they won't work with us. Yeah, it sucks having to tolerate the people that we have paid for 2 years to coffee can our asses.
But here's the real trick: no matter what they've done or will do, they won't work with us with the bad attitude going around. And that's why we don't see Devs posting in here....Tiggs said it herself. Sometimes you have to bite your lip and do what you have to for the better good. You don't have to suck up, you don't have to brown nose, or even be nice. You just have to not ignite the flames and just stay professional. It sucks but you have to do it...the Devs won't go for any less no matter what.
/clap
Absolutely. You know, one would think that all this community has been through, that we wouldn't have t ogo through this everytime. Hell, Nick even prefaced the comments coming from Tiggs with a plea to not flame. We have got to stop reacting like this.
The old addage: If you don't have anything productive to say, don't day anything at all...
They are simply going to turn away when it happens. You can kick and scream about how unfair it is, but the fact remains we play by their rules, and we get nothing if we don't.
The fact that Tiggs said what she said to Nick in PM over this somewhat tame reaction to comments is shameful to me, and the rest of this community who has put in so much time, work, and devotion to this profession and this forum community.
I say we got our answer, let's not discuss it further in this thread. Tiggs posted once, that doesn't mean she will continue to answer questions. Let's leave it be, please.
Kamileon wrote:
Why don't we all act like b*tchy, spoiled, complaining children that attack the hand that is at least remotely starting to do something for our profession? Won't that help the revamp come along, and help us get what we want?
Instead of "Thank god, they're mentioning us" it's how much they've lied, how much they suck, how much they've ignored the smuggler community, and nothing but complaints.
Bleh.
I don't like this community when it gets like this.
We've tried being nice, we've tried being mean, we've tried being passive, we've tried being aggressive... nothing works. It's like the Devs don't care how Smugglers treat them, they will still ignore us. Sure they pushed one fix in, which is great, I'm glad they did, but that's only one fix of many many more that need to be addressed .
If the Devs think this fix on TC is going to tide us over or shut us up, they're sadly mistaken.
NickHeel wrote:
I don't think the patch on TC is meant to tide us over. It's meant to fix and upgrade things that can be done in the here and now. Tiggs posted on page 2 that the Devs are working on upgrading things in us now, but none of it is a revamp. Just upgrades that have been sorely needed.
I agree Nick, I don't think these things are designed to simply tide us over. It seems a bit convenient that two things that definately help Smugglers (Crackdown and faction selling) are suddenly improved. To me, I belive the DEVs have recognized certain foundations they need to build for an actual Smuggling system to be implimented, and are starting to 'ready' the rest of the playerbase about the future changes. Basically, the Crackdown got jacked up bit by bit so everyone doesn't suddenly freak when they end up NEEDING Smugglers in a few months to transport illegal goods. Just my thinking.
Do you really think that they're going to trot into a thread or a forum that's obviously going to take shots, openly attack, and flame them? Or do you think they're more likely to visit and ask questions to a forum that can respond with the answers they need...nothing more, nothing less.
I definately agree with this statement, but there's also part of me that finds a problem here. The thing is, they don't really give us the opportunity to respond either way. There's this assumption that we'll automatically start a flame-fest if we hear bad news, and I don't believe that's how this community tends to work. Yes, there may be a few bad apples that will flame, but I think the community leaders would put that down rather quickly. To me, from what I've seen of this forum over the last year or so, we don't so much respond negatively to hearing bad news. It's the NOT hearing bad news that angers us. We get angry more about the communication issues than we actually do the development issues, i.e. the spice-nerf.
Honestly, I think many issues would be easily resolved if Tiggs made one simple post in here. All she'd really have to do is repeat back to us what it is we'd like to see in a revamp. This would acknowledge that the devs have heard our pleas and understand where we're coming from. It would keep us from having to repeat ourselves over and over again because then we'd KNOW that they know what is important to us. And then we could go from there and actually begin helping with the details of our own revamp, which is something this community i believe more than any other reallys wants. We're not looking for uberness, we're looking for something that we can own.
Orcajum wrote:
I agree Nick, I don't think these things are designed to simply tide us over. It seems a bit convenient that two things that definately help Smugglers (Crackdown and faction selling) are suddenly improved. To me, I belive the DEVs have recognized certain foundations they need to build for an actual Smuggling system to be implimented, and are starting to 'ready' the rest of the playerbase about the future changes. Basically, the Crackdown got jacked up bit by bit so everyone doesn't suddenly freak when they end up NEEDING Smugglers in a few months to transport illegal goods. Just my thinking.
It's a bit silly to assume such things, when we just don't know. They might or might not prove to be true, and if you assume that there is some kind of a big smuggling system and that everything is a part of a grand scheme to somehow ready the playerbase to implement it, well... you might be very disappointed. The only thing we actually know is:
"We did start that work and just to be clear it is work on several of the non-combat professions. The Combat Upgrade is still coming first before we get into implementation however some fixes like the one currently on Test Center will be coming in the interim. "
In other words, the facts are that a) the work on Smuggler Revamp has started without publicly acknowledging any of the big issues and revamp ideas/proposals posted by the Smuggler community or correspondents during the past year, and b) it won't be a Smuggler Revamp but a complete non-combat profession revamp where Smuggler is just one of the professions affected. If/until we get any other words, that's it.
Cloudchasing wrote:
ok, I agree with Nick, but we (and the devs)have to face facts. Nick you say we wouldn't yell at our boss, but the difference is WE pay the DEVS, not the other way around. And like I said in my post responding to Tiggs, we just want SOME news. A little bit of news. A sign that we aren't forgotten. As a great person said once (no idea) but anything is better than nothing.
At this point, I'd be happy with almost anything, as long as they took almost any of our ideas.
I'd really like an actual conversation. And I'll promise right now, that if we got Tiggs to respond to us, to have a conversation in here, that I wouldn't complain, flame or incite. I just want a conversation, with ideas being exchanged.
Kinda goes like this;
Smugglers: How about this idea?
Tiggs: too difficult, would be a nightmare to implement.
Smugglers: Ok, how about this?
Tiggs: Well, that's a possibility, maybe if it was this way instead?
Smuggers: Yeah, that would work, but maybe like this too?
Maybe, something like this
I think both of you are on the right track. The only problem with this exchange (which I personally have no problem with) is that there is always that one or two persons that will take any chance they can get to take potshots.
Sometimes when I read things people say to the devs, I could swear that they would cut off their nose just to spite their face.
I mean honestly, where is bad-mouthing the devs going to get us? Nowhere. So just be professional. You don't have to lick their boots, just be professional and intelligent.
Cloudchasing wrote:
ok, I agree with Nick, but we (and the devs)have to face facts. Nick you say we wouldn't yell at our boss, but the difference is WE pay the DEVS, not the other way around. And like I said in my post responding to Tiggs, we just want SOME news. A little bit of news. A sign that we aren't forgotten. As a great person said once (no idea) but anything is better than nothing.
At this point, I'd be happy with almost anything, as long as they took almost any of our ideas.
[snip]
I agree, Cloud. Totally. But apparently, that's not the way it works. We've still got to treat them like our bosses. I don't like it one bit but it's just the way it is and it's pretty well set in stone that it's not going to change. I think "doing what we can with what we've got" is going to be our best policy. Sucks, but we can't really do anything about it besides /cancel. 
That was a large problem with the Publish 9 fiasco. We'd been lied to and pushed back and were finally going to get something. And the initial shock of some missions and a few other things put the "wow" in a lot of Smugglers. Including myself. We need to get what we need. Everything from blue sky ideas to the minor fixes. Nothing less.
Good conversation 
Message Edited by Cloudchasing on 02-01-2005 07:57 PM
Cloudchasing wrote:
Yeah,
one of the things I've been trying to do is not get my hopes up. But at the same time, I want to get my hopes up. There is a fine line in choosing your expectation. I really want to be blown away, but the realist in me just wants to accept whatever and hope for more.
/cheers to all, the CURB is coming!!
Message Edited by Cloudchasing on 02-01-2005 07:57 PM
What is teh CURB and will it help me unlock? 
It's tough to say where to put your expectations. If I may offer a suggestion:
I'd say go with what you want. Help as much as you can to get as much as you can done for the Smuggler community. That's my plan. I've given up on what I think will or won't be in the revamp. I simply try to do my best as an average poster to help the community get as much as we can. That way, whatever we get, I can say that I did my best no matter what. If it wasn't up to my expectation then, well, sucks but I did what I could. If it surpasses my expatations, more the better and I hope I helped in some small way.
If you sit back and wait for the glory and power of the uber Smuggler Revamp to come to you and it's not what you expected, how can you complain when you didn't try? If it surpasses or meets your expectations, then you got lucky and it fell in your lap.
I'd rather do the best I could and whatever happens is out of my control. I'll either enjoy it or hate it. Wow, did that make any sense? /boggle