Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Ternque01
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:04 pm
#742
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
If you choose to break the law, you are a criminal. It's that simple. To be sure the real issue here is not what is the law from who's perspective. That is not in the equation however interesting you make your post. At this point in time in the Star Wars universe any power that exists be it Imperial, Rebel, or local law enforcement views these items as contraband. No matter which of these three powers you claim allegiance to, the other two will declare your actions illegal and will do what is in their power to reprimand you. This is regardless as if your party views your actions like a hero.
....
Who's law? The law of a fascist dictator who delights in the torturing of others? His laws do not apply to me, I don't recognize them as laws, nor do I have anything to do with them. If I play poker in a public area where I am now, I am considered a criminal in other places of the world. Think on that for a bit.
If a US trooper kills a fellow who he suspects to be a terrorist, who is the criminal? That guy is still dead and depending on whose rules you follow that trooper is either a criminal or a hero. You are operating from only one perspective.
Robin Hood was called a criminal, but perceived as a hero for those he helped.
Almost anything you do can be breaking a law somewhere else. We don't however believe that we are criminals though their law says differently. Smuggling is not just about spice and weapons. It is also about food, clothing and raw materials. Every item that is destined for one faction or another is subject to the searching and confiscation of the opposing side, regardless of it's use. You are aiding the enemy by trying to get items through to them.
So no, I am notnecessarily a criminal when I smuggle something.
Who's law? The rest of that post you quoted went into fine detail who's law it is. It is not the law of a regime, not the law a local law enforcement, not the law of any pitiful rebellion. It is the unspoken, ill refuted, unquestionable fact that spices and illegal weaponry bring the health of a community down. The "law" i speak of is the natural law that says if you overdose on muon gold that you die, or if you shoot a modified weapon that it blows up in your handit kills you. That is the law I speak of.
And yes, if you deal with items that degenerate the health of all being involved then you are a criminal in every sense of the word.
If you choose to smuggle guns that are unmodifiedto maintain safetyand are used to fight a war for what you believe to be self-protection, fine, but if you're dealing with drugs and guns that kill their users and destroy neighborhoods, then you sir are a criminal, no if, ands, or butts 
If you sneak a crate of unmodified guns to the Rebellion through an Imperial blockade, yes you are smuggling for a cause.
Smuggling modified weaponry and illegal drugs isn't a "cause" it's a quick buck, and that's what I will be doing.
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:08 pm
#743
You seem to be ignoring the point that not all smuggling consists of Guns, spice and slaves.
I could be an imperial...
My mission... Imperial troops are having a Pop Tart supply shortage. Get these Pop Tarts through the rebel blockade around planet Kellogs.
I hide, I sneak, I bribe my way through the blockade with my Pop Tarts in tow. If I am cought though, I am quite possibly going to be killed for aiding the enemy, even though my cargo consisted entirely of pop tarts. Hardly something that is illegal by itself, but what I was doing was still smuggling.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
Thochkored
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:08 pm
#744
I can tell you one thing, I will not be slicing any gear for a Bounty Hunter if they'll be hunting me down later on. My main concern is that they send BH who are at an equal level to the Smugglers they are to kill. I think that once you are found you should have options other than fighting to get away, perhaps this will apeal to the PvE player who doesn't want the inconvenience of re-cloning.
Ipseck
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:10 pm
#745
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:You seem to be ignoring the point that not all smuggling consists of Guns, spice and slaves.I could be an imperial...My mission... Imperial troops are having a Pop Tart supply shortage. Get these Pop Tarts through the rebel blockade around planet Kellogs.I hide, I sneak, I bribe my way through the blockade with my Pop Tarts in tow. If I am cought though, I am quite possibly going to be killed for aiding the enemy, even though my cargo consisted entirely of pop tarts. Hardly something that is illegal by itself, but what I was doing was still smuggling.
why would you have to avoid rebels? why not just sweep in and eliminate teh terrorists? The rebels aren't a government or controlling authority of any type.. that really wouldn't be smuggling, that'd be taking the **edit** way out.
Nura
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:11 pm
#746
@Daker-Natrius
i realy like that idea and the problems u write also sound very logicly.
but im sure that will piss of alot of people.making factory crates contraband doesnt seem to be the right kind of solution.
thats just like exchanging problemAwith problem B.
what i like to see is involving a complete other profession to help making contraband items non scanable. lets take master artisans for example. how about giving them the skill to fake IDs of a weapon? they build items so they can change IDs too.
drugs should still be illegal to use. lets say players with 5 drugs will get a warning but left in peace. in order to keepdrugs wanted, thes realy need huge boost moun needs to give like 1000 mind instead of the 500. but i think thats more a matter of experimentation.
quasi illegal -> drugs till a stack of 5, stufffrom lok and other contrabanded planets (no visibility add)
banned -> sliced guns, weapons and armor. wont be the big problem with the artisan fake ID stuff
but im sure that will piss of alot of people.making factory crates contraband doesnt seem to be the right kind of solution.
thats just like exchanging problemAwith problem B.
what i like to see is involving a complete other profession to help making contraband items non scanable. lets take master artisans for example. how about giving them the skill to fake IDs of a weapon? they build items so they can change IDs too.
drugs should still be illegal to use. lets say players with 5 drugs will get a warning but left in peace. in order to keepdrugs wanted, thes realy need huge boost moun needs to give like 1000 mind instead of the 500. but i think thats more a matter of experimentation.
quasi illegal -> drugs till a stack of 5, stufffrom lok and other contrabanded planets (no visibility add)
banned -> sliced guns, weapons and armor. wont be the big problem with the artisan fake ID stuff
highly illegal -> massive amounts of drugs, special foodand maybe some other special weapons and tools
Daker-Naritus
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:11 pm
#747
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the point that not all smuggling consists of Guns, spice and slaves.
Exactly....that is why factory crates should be contraband 
SBRD0C
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:12 pm
#748
Daker-Naritus wrote:
What about this solution: Factory Crates. Make all factory crates contraband.
Now before you go crazy, hear me out on this.
Currently, all players have the ability to move mass quanties of goods in factory crates from planet to planet, without any interference from the empire, by putting factory crates in their backpacks/inventories. That is a job that should be left to smugglers.
There are only 3 times that players need factory crates: (1) storing goods in their houses or backpacks, (2) artisans moving goods to put on vendors, or (3) players moving goods they have already bought in bulk.
If you make factory crates contraband, it would have the following effects:
(1) Artisans - Artisans often have vendors on several planets, and often need to move mass quantities of goods between planets to stock those vendors. The only way to do this is in factory crates. If the crates are contraband, they will have to hire a smuggler a couple of times a week/month (whenever they restock vendors) to accompany them and assure them a safe passage.
(2) Consumers - Consumers of goods often buy then in bulk factory crates. Whenever that person bought a crate of something, they would have to hire a smuggler to help them get it to their house/bank (where they can remove a couple of items and go on their way). This would mean that all consumers of goods would probably need a smuggler a couple of times a month (every time they buy a factory crate of something).
This would also solve the problem of people running around with unlimited quantities of items in factory crates....the benefit of moving mass quantities of goods between planets should be a SMUGGLER ONLY skill, so ONLY smugglers can move around safely with factory crates.
The net result is that players often need smugglers (not every night, but often enough for there to be a market) to assure them safe passage from planet to planet (and elsewhere) when they are engaged in commerce. THAT is smugglers are supposed to be doing. This accomplishes PC smuggling activities without ruining the spice/slice market.
From a roleplay standpoint, it would work like this: The empire DOES NOT want people trading mass quantities of goods without their permission. To be able to trade goods, you have to have the blessing of the empire. So just like now...super high-ranking imperial players can go through the checkpoints with factory crates (maybe with a decent sized fine). Those imperial players essentially have the blessing of the empire to be engaged in commerce.
For everyone else, they CANNOT move crates of goods though starports without dying (they get attacked) unless they engage the services of a smuggler. They have to hire a smuggler to help them move the goods.
What do you think of that?
Translation: I wanna keep my uber weaponsand pay no penalty.. let the crafters pay for thier commodities instead!!
Your system is no different except instead of targting the overpowered combat folks your targeting EVERY crafter..
Honestly to me it makes no difference WHO I smuggle for but your argument holds no water, and it makes alot less sense to make commodities illegal as opposed to weapons and mind-altering substances, that are currently seen as commodities whether or not they should be.
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-18-2004 01:14 PM
SBRD0C
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:16 pm
#749
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the point that not all smuggling consists of Guns, spice and slaves.
Exactly....that is why factory crates should be contraband
Daker.. Caylin has a good point, but that is not a reason to go to the opposite extreme.
Just out of curiosity.. are you a smuggler?
Ternque01
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:18 pm
#750
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the point that not all smuggling consists of Guns, spice and slaves.
I could be an imperial...
My mission... Imperial troops are having a Pop Tart supply shortage. Get these Pop Tarts through the rebel blockade around planet Kellogs.
I hide, I sneak, I bribe my way through the blockade with my Pop Tarts in tow. If I am cought though, I am quite possibly going to be killed for aiding the enemy, even though my cargo consisted entirely of pop tarts. Hardly something that is illegal by itself, but what I was doing was still smuggling.
LOFL, I see you point well enough bro That is why I said smuggling guns (that are safe for the user to shoot, i.e. unmodified) past an Imperial blockade for the Rebellion is a cause.
Well in your example, you are still breaking the law. You would be charged for "aiding a known enemy" through the means of smuggling. If you were smuggling spice you would be charged with "transporting with intent to distribute illegal substances" through the means of smuggling. You are smuggling that's true, but smuggling is just trying to hide crimes - crimes to accepted laws. Smuggling just keeps it a secret, breaking the law is what you are doing. That is why you are a criminal.
If I were to out of fancy decide to smuggle my books into school, I'd be smuggling, but I wouldn't be breaking the (school) law.
BTW.. I strongly consider Pop Tarts contraband!!!
KodaVeers
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:20 pm
#751
Will someone tell me whay this won't work!!! This is the second time i'm posting it.
When PC does enough to get a bounty on his/her head they are somehow notified by a message or ingame email stating they have 24 hours to pay FINE or BOUNTY will be ACTIVATED and placed on BH terminal..
For PvE those who don't want to fight other PC BH PAY THE FINE!!!
For PvP those who don't mind fighting other PC BH DON'T PAY THE FINE
Now everyone in game has an option to handle there illegal activities when caught.
This is simple enough.
Tell me its not.
BOUNTIES ARE REMOVED BY PAYING THE FINE ONLY AT THE BEGIINNING BEFORE ACTIVATION. OR BEING KILLED BY BH.
IF BOUNTY LIVES HE REMAINS ON TERMINAL AND THE PRICE CAN GO UP FOR EACH BH HE/SHE KILLS.
This is sooo simple. I hope many agree.
HOTDOG
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:21 pm
#752
"I can tell you one thing, I will not be slicing any gear for a Bounty Hunter if they'll be hunting me down later on. My main concern is that they send BH who are at an equal level to the Smugglers they are to kill."
Well, that's the whole point, isn't it?
If you are a smuggler- and a smuggler only- you shuld have the abilities to get away from most BHs (this should be addressed in the revamp as well)
If you are a master smuggler/master combat profession then a BH will still be better than you but you should have a better chance at surviving the experience and a VERY good chance toget away- 'til the next encounter.
If you are a master smuggler/master commando you should be able to go toe to toe with almost any BH should you decide to do that.
If you are a master smuggler/master TKA/master pistoleer, also known asa "Triple Master" then you should be more than equipped to handle a BH.
Again- there are SEVERAL ways to AVOID having a BH sent after you in the first place and just slicing a couple of weapons is not going to instantly land you in trouble.
"I think that once you are found you should have options other than fighting to get away, perhaps this will apeal to the PvE player who doesn't want the inconvenience of re-cloning."
I hope so too- but there's nothing stopping you from offering a PC Bounty Hunter the amount of money they would have made on the bounty if they spare you.
Intelerebel
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:22 pm
#753
Daker, I like thegeneral concept of your idea, but I feel that traveling from planet to planet for people to smuggle crates could become extremely mundane. Don't get me wrong, I understand that the word "smuggle" involves travel by nature. It just seems to me that smuggling crates for artisans and their customers would become too much of a commodity. I dont think we'd be able to charge enough to make it really worth it. Also, there's nothing illegal about Artisan goods, or the people who buy their goods.
So I could argue that just as it seems foolish that smugglers only smuggle one gun at a time, it's also foolish that citizens who abide by imperial law would require someone's illegal services to transport their legal goods. We are smugglers, not UPS or FEDEX.
I think what needs to be done here is to create more instances where illegal goods are required or sought after. If the devs can find a way to make spices really attractive, then bulk smuggling runs could increase on that front. Maybe doctor's buffs could be made illegal. (After all, how many doctors do you know that can legally hand out pharmaceuticals for non-health related issues.).
How bout, instead of forcing artisans and their customers to engage a smuggler because of TEF, why not make it so that crates of LEGAL items are heavily taxed, and smugglers can sneak the crates into cities so that the artisans and their clients dont have to pay the high tax.People could still have the option of not paying the tax, thus incurring a TEF.
All in all, yes I agree that we need to be smuggling large quantities. But maybe we need to iron out some more of the specifics.
SBRD0C
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:23 pm
#754
KodaVeers wrote:
Will someone tell me whay this won't work!!! This is the second time i'm posting it.
When PC does enough to get a bounty on his/her head they are somehow notified by a message or ingame email stating they have 24 hours to pay FINE or BOUNTY will be ACTIVATED and placed on BH terminal..
For PvE those who don't want to fight other PC BH PAY THE FINE!!!
For PvP those who don't mind fighting other PC BH DON'T PAY THE FINE
Now everyone in game has an option to handle there illegal activities when caught.
This is simple enough.
Tell me its not.
BOUNTIES ARE REMOVED BY PAYING THE FINE ONLY AT THE BEGIINNING BEFORE ACTIVATION. OR BEING KILLED BY BH.
IF BOUNTY LIVES HE REMAINS ON TERMINAL AND THE PRICE CAN GO UP FOR EACH BH HE/SHE KILLS.
This is sooo simple. I hope many agree.
I do think that is one of many good constructive and workable Ideas similar to those that are spread throughout pages 10-30