Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Ipseck
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:48 am
#729
hmm.. maybe because I pvp I griefed him and abusded him so he /addignored me... cuz he sure doesn't seem to be seeing any of my posts.
Rockweaver
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:50 am
#730
Ipseck wrote:
rockweaver, have you read any of my posts?
seriously... This isn't some pvp vs pve war. we all want the same thing in the end and thats the content that being hunted by bh's would provide. why is it so important to you that it be an npc?
And I'll reiterate my question:
whave you ever PvPed?
It seems like you're pulling one of those jewish-passion arguments, and saying something is horrible without ever going to the trouble of actually seeing the movie.Message Edited by Ipseck on 06-18-2004 11:42 AM
You shouldn't have enhancements, that we don't get, just because we play against the GAME and not EACHOTHER. I used to be very much into PVP when people still raided bases and it was more envionmental and tactical based than "I have more Rifleman so I win" based.
I prefer a challenge, not a CM vs. CM war.
Ternque01
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:51 am
#731
Rockweaver wrote:
PVPERS THAT USE CONTRABAND WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER PVE'ERS IN PVE! THAT IS NOT FAIR!
IF THIS ADVANTAGE PERTAINED ONLY TO PVP, THAT WOULD BE FINE AS IT WOULD NOT EFFECT THE PVE'ERS!
It's that simple. Being open to PVP conflict does not entitle you to better gear, or better options. Restricting our use of Contraband would be bad for our RP environment and our gameplay experience.
Do you believe that using illegal weaponry should be illegal?
Do you think it's fair that other player should be able to use superior equipment without a negating consequence?
In your above statement you state that restricting your use of contraband would be bad for a RP environment. Do you think that legal restrictions and actions are the exception, be they PvE or PvP?
I would hope so, because to properly RP the Star Wars universe, contraband is highly illegal and very rare. This game needs said restrictions on contraband to maintain a proper RP perspective.
Your sentiment that is somewhat expressed above that you want little to do with PvP is noted around here, so don't worry. I am pushing for several soluions to this problem, however you might want to accept for the time being that if you choose to carry illegal contraband you will be penalized, inconvienced, attacked, and fined. Just how this is going to happen remains to be seen just yet. Your life will be a living hell (or heaven) if you choose the path of the criminal, be that from PvE or PvP enforcement. I pray that this is comes to pass.
I know what you're saying, you don't have to yell it in my ear.. i can't state every argument that a pro-PvE community can state in all of my posts, so forgive me if I don't mention yours 
Under any contraband system, there will be perks for combat given to criminals - that's how this galaxy works. You say, "PVPERS THAT USE CONTRABAND WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER PVE'ERS IN PVE!" The truth is that any player who wishes to carry illegal good has that advantage over those players who do not carry them. Your true enemy here is a contraband system that you feel gives you no options to avoid PvP, not your brother PvP'er. It's not PvP'ers against you here. You may be correct that a PvP'er will be more successful at defending a PC BH, but let's be honest here, a PvE'er could just as easily die, with absolutely no penalty of death, brush themselves off, and start using more contraband! Don't argue that dying as a PvE'er costs you buffs and a time inconveniece, because as an avid PvP'er myself, i'd have to get buffs, have my best armor get worn, eat tons of very very expensive foods, and if I die, I actually lose more! My buffs are gone, my food is wasted, and on top of it, I have to wait until my entire stomach empties before i can go fight again - because guess what? your stomach stays full after you die!! yup. I'm loaded on brandy, canape, synthsteaks, maybe accuracy food. That is alot of $$$.
You may be correct that a PvP'er will be more successful at defending a PC BH, but let's be honest here, a PvE'er could just as easily die, with absolutely no penalty of death, brush themselves off, and start using more contraband! Don't argue that dying as a PvE'er costs you buffs and a time inconveniece, because as an avid PvP'er myself, i'd have to get buffs, have my best armor get worn, eat tons of very very expensive foods, and if I die, I actually lose more! My buffs are gone, my food is wasted, and on top of it, I have to wait until my entire stomach empties before i can go fight again - because guess what? your stomach stays full after you die!! yup. I'm loaded on brandy, canape, synthsteaks, maybe accuracy food. That is alot of $$$.I can't state how destructive bashinga community is, but your enemy is your perceptions to a future contraband system. Nothing stops you from voicing your distaste for a contraband system who's upper eschalon of punishment is PvP, and it is within your power to advocate a system that doesn't force you to be a smuggler and PvP at the same time.
I understand your passion man, just please be easier on my ear
Ipseck
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:52 am
#732
Rockweaver wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
rockweaver, have you read any of my posts?
seriously... This isn't some pvp vs pve war. we all want the same thing in the end and thats the content that being hunted by bh's would provide. why is it so important to you that it be an npc?
And I'll reiterate my question:
whave you ever PvPed?
It seems like you're pulling one of those jewish-passion arguments, and saying something is horrible without ever going to the trouble of actually seeing the movie.Message Edited by Ipseck on 06-18-2004 11:42 AM
You shouldn't have enhancements, that we don't get, just because we play against the GAME and not EACHOTHER. I used to be very much into PVP when people still raided bases and it was more envionmental and tactical based than "I have more Rifleman so I win" based.
I prefer a challenge, not a CM vs. CM war.
what are you talking about?
1) I'll ask the question for a THIRD time: HAVE YOU EVER PVP'ed?????
2) you don't respond to anything I say
3) you're responding to arguments I didn't even make
4) bounty hunters can't sling poison from 90meters last time i checked
5) HAVE YOU EVER EVEN PvPed????
Message Edited by Ipseck on 06-18-2004 11:54 AM
Rueger_Karde
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:54 am
#733
"Missions are based on level, the NPC BH could easily be too. Low level PVE'ers wouldn't be breaking the big laws to warrant uber NPC BHs anyway.
But the high end game, for masters at PVE (the ones breasking the most laws) would represent this with higher end NPCs and Scenarios for them to appear. BUT, making a cap on quality, that only PVPers can pass, would be very unfair to PVE'ers that put just as much time into their toons as you do."
But the high end game, for masters at PVE (the ones breasking the most laws) would represent this with higher end NPCs and Scenarios for them to appear. BUT, making a cap on quality, that only PVPers can pass, would be very unfair to PVE'ers that put just as much time into their toons as you do."
If the developers once agian listen to the whims of the minority and say this is how it must be done, I can live with an optoin like this. But im telling you right now, this is somethin that is WAY moe trouble than its worth. People will never be happy with something that is dynamic like this. You need to make it fair across the board.
My views are all here in black and white and if anyone wants to see them read the last 10 pages. I am tired of talking to a brick wall. Although at least this time you came up with an idea to support your ideals, which is why I'm saying I suppose I could live with it. But like I have said, when more people are involved if we can accomplish a goal with somthing simple, it would be much better than trying to make it overly complicated for the whim of a minority.
I'm not going to post again about this topic, everyone who has read the last half of this thread knows how I feel.
When the next topic starts up, I will be putting my input there as well.
Good luck to those who continute to argue this point who agree with me. You are going to need it.
Rockweaver
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:55 am
#734
Ipseck wrote:
hmm.. maybe because I pvp I griefed him and abusded him so he /addignored me... cuz he sure doesn't seem to be seeing any of my posts.
Yep thats me, abusded. lol
You are no righter than I am, the fact is, the current layout sides with you, instead of in between.
This is not a compromise, when it needs to be. Sony will have us leaving the game if they force PVP onto us, you might not care, but they do. There needs to be a ballance.
Rueger_Karde
Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:58 am
#735
Rockweaver wrote:
PVPERS THAT USE CONTRABAND WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER PVE'ERS IN PVE! THAT IS NOT FAIR!
IF THIS ADVANTAGE PERTAINED ONLY TO PVP, THAT WOULD BE FINE AS IT WOULD NOT EFFECT THE PVE'ERS!
It's that simple. Being open to PVP conflict does not entitle you to better gear, or better options. Restricting our use of Contraband would be bad for our RP environment and our gameplay experience.
Do you believe that using illegal weaponry should be illegal?
Do you think it's fair that other player should be able to use superior equipment without a negating consequence?
In your above statement you state that restricting your use of contraband would be bad for a RP environment. Do you think that legal restrictions and actions are the exception, be they PvE or PvP?
I would hope so, because to properly RP the Star Wars universe, contraband is highly illegal and very rare. This game needs said restrictions on contraband to maintain a proper RP perspective.
Your sentiment that is somewhat expressed above that you want little to do with PvP is noted around here, so don't worry. I am pushing for several soluions to this problem, however you might want to accept for the time being that if you choose to carry illegal contraband you will be penalized, inconvienced, attacked, and fined. Just how this is going to happen remains to be seen just yet. Your life will be a living hell (or heaven) if you choose the path of the criminal, be that from PvE or PvP enforcement. I pray that this is comes to pass.
I know what you're saying, you don't have to yell it in my ear.. i can't state every argument that a pro-PvE community can state in all of my posts, so forgive me if I don't mention yours
Under any contraband system, there will be perks for combat given to criminals - that's how this galaxy works. You say, "PVPERS THAT USE CONTRABAND WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER PVE'ERS IN PVE!" The truth is that any player who wishes to carry illegal good has that advantage over those players who do not carry them. Your true enemy here is a contraband system that you feel gives you no options to avoid PvP, not your brother PvP'er. It's not PvP'ers against you here. You may be correct that a PvP'er will be more successful at defending a PC BH, but let's be honest here, a PvE'er could just as easily die, with absolutely no penalty of death, brush themselves off, and start using more contraband! Don't argue that dying as a PvE'er costs you buffs and a time inconveniece, because as an avid PvP'er myself, i'd have to get buffs, have my best armor get worn, eat tons of very very expensive foods, and if I die, I actually lose more! My buffs are gone, my food is wasted, and on top of it, I have to wait until my entire stomach empties before i can go fight again - because guess what? your stomach stays full after you die!! yup. I'm loaded on brandy, canape, synthsteaks, maybe accuracy food. That is alot of $$$.
I can't state how destructive bashinga community is, but your enemy is your perceptions to a future contraband system. Nothing stops you from voicing your distaste for a contraband system who's upper eschalon of punishment is PvP, and it is within your power to advocate a system that doesn't force you to be a smuggler and PvP at the same time."
/agree
/point
RellikCro
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:25 pm
#737
Pvt wrote:
Listen to me very closely!
If you non PvP B!tches keep crying the Smuggler revamp will be nothing more than delivery missions.
Stop crying you #ucking **edit**. This game REVOLVES around PvP. If you don't want to PvP then don't go Jedi, Bounty Huner, or SMUGGLER you little cybabies.
I'm so sick of you little girls who only want to PvE..............Boo Hoo Hoo............ Cry me a river you little whiny brat. Who gave me a 1 star earlier without postin a retort............. just one of the hoes that plays SWG that's too afraid to to go against another player..........Whine whine whine whine that's all these boards are fillled with is a bunch of whiners.
If you don't want a PvP game then go play something else like everquest kid not SWG.
StarWars is all about a fight you lame @ss, it's about two factions or more fighting for control. So stop your crying kid, grow up and fight for the side you are a part of.
What you see as a balance I see as a Nerf!
Just Say no to Nerfs!
I rest my case why I do not like PvP and the attitude it brings........
Rueger_Karde
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:32 pm
#738
Man, im starting to feel like pvt up there.
Alright, I will dumb down my posts from now on.
Rockweaver said:
3) "Well don't use it" is not an excuse because that limits the potential Power of a PVE'er simply because they choose not to fight other players. You should not be able to attack a Kimogila better than I can, simply because you also fight other players. The use of Contraband would give you an advantage over PVE'ers who decided to protect themselves from potential griefing
I said:
"The problem with this is you are comparing something you will do to what you think everyone else will do. Just because someone likes PvP (like myself) doesnt mean I will be an all out criminal and get the sliced weapons and be that person you are comparing yourself up agiasn't. You have NO IDEA how many criminals there will be out there.
If the penalties are really that much, then they will be rare. Are you also mad that bounty hunters have the best combat available? (ok in theory) They have taken the hit on skill points therefore making some adverse effects, and therefore less people playing BH. Some rule will apply here. Most people wont want to have to worry about a bounty comming on thier heads 24/7. Therefore they wont be criminals. Therefore you wont be at a disadvantage when you go out without sliced weapons.
If the penalties arn't that much, and there are still alot of people out there breaking the law, then hell, there isn't a reason for you not to do it as well.
Either way EVERYONE will be forced to make the same choice you will, lots of risk and lots of reward, vs little risk and little reward."
This system will just be like attacking an imp and getting a tef. The option will be yours to do so. Sure you may not get the loot off the imp. And someone who takes that chance may have an easier time of making money (due to loot) than you, but they are putting up with the risk of PvP. The same goes with this. You may not be using the best possible manifestation of your weapon, and somone who does get it sliced may have a better weapon, and an easertime of killiing things than you, but they are putting up with the risk of PvP.
Due to the possibility of confusion I will stop here. Its like im talking to someone in high school.
RellikCro
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:39 pm
#739
Rueger_Karde wrote:
Man, im starting to feel like pvt up there.
Alright, I will dumb down my posts from now on.
Rockweaver said:
3) "Well don't use it" is not an excuse because that limits the potential Power of a PVE'er simply because they choose not to fight other players. You should not be able to attack a Kimogila better than I can, simply because you also fight other players. The use of Contraband would give you an advantage over PVE'ers who decided to protect themselves from potential griefing
I said:
"The problem with this is you are comparing something you will do to what you think everyone else will do. Just because someone likes PvP (like myself) doesnt mean I will be an all out criminal and get the sliced weapons and be that person you are comparing yourself up agiasn't. You have NO IDEA how many criminals there will be out there.
If the penalties are really that much, then they will be rare. Are you also mad that bounty hunters have the best combat available? (ok in theory) They have taken the hit on skill points therefore making some adverse effects, and therefore less people playing BH. Some rule will apply here. Most people wont want to have to worry about a bounty comming on thier heads 24/7. Therefore they wont be criminals. Therefore you wont be at a disadvantage when you go out without sliced weapons.
If the penalties arn't that much, and there are still alot of people out there breaking the law, then hell, there isn't a reason for you not to do it as well.
Either way EVERYONE will be forced to make the same choice you will, lots of risk and lots of reward, vs little risk and little reward."
This system will just be like attacking an imp and getting a tef. The option will be yours to do so. Sure you may not get the loot off the imp. And someone who takes that chance may have an easier time of making money (due to loot) than you, but they are putting up with the risk of PvP. The same goes with this. You may not be using the best possible manifestation of your weapon, and somone who does get it sliced may have a better weapon, and an easertime of killiing things than you, but they are putting up with the risk of PvP.
Due to the possibility of confusion I will stop here. Its like im talking to someone in high school.
Just because we do not agree with your "conclusions" does not mean we are high school'ers. Again this is the very reason I am inclined to never like PvP'ers in general because of their lack to think out of the box and look at all playstyles as equal. Equal not one over the other, not one rewarded better then the other... equal. We all take the same risks in the game.. although as pointed out PvE'ers are penalized more then PvP'ers upon death even. So who really is taking the bigger risk?
You will not get very far if all you can do is call ppl names and try to degrade their intelligence. We, or at least I, understand where you are coming from... I do not agree with it but that does not mean I do not understand what you are saying.
Rueger_Karde
Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:55 pm
#740
I'm not talking about the relative equalness of PvE vs PvP. Im talking about just straight risk vs reward. I never said PvP was better, in fact I dont really do it that much, I do it only to defend my PAs base. Thats about it. Hell, im a pistoleer so you can guess how well I do.
Alright, to keep from going in circles, lets focus down a little bit.
Now, which are you arguing the most (we all have things we want, but pick one) the fact that smugglers shouldn't be forced into PvP or that the basic citizen shouldn't be forced into PvP.
Then we can discuss that aspect of the contraband system and its effects of each playstyle.
Ipseck
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:03 pm
#741
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:If you choose to break the law, you are a criminal. It's that simple. To be sure the real issue here is not what is the law from who's perspective. That is not in the equation however interesting you make your post. At this point in time in the Star Wars universe any power that exists be it Imperial, Rebel, or local law enforcement views these items as contraband. No matter which of these three powers you claim allegiance to, the other two will declare your actions illegal and will do what is in their power to reprimand you. This is regardless as if your party views your actions like a hero.....Who's law? The law of a fascist dictator who delights in the torturing of others? His laws do not apply to me, I don't recognize them as laws, nor do I have anything to do with them. If I play poker in a public area where I am now, I am considered a criminal in other places of the world. Think on that for a bit.If a US trooper kills a fellow who he suspects to be a terrorist, who is the criminal? That guy is still dead and depending on whose rules you follow that trooper is either a criminal or a hero. You are operating from only one perspective.Robin Hood was called a criminal, but perceived as a hero for those he helped.Almost anything you do can be breaking a law somewhere else. We don't however believe that we are criminals though their law says differently. Smuggling is not just about spice and weapons. It is also about food, clothing and raw materials. Every item that is destined for one faction or another is subject to the searching and confiscation of the opposing side, regardless of it's use. You are aiding the enemy by trying to get items through to them.So no, I am not necessarily a criminal when I smuggle something.
His laws do apply to you, no matter how much you say that they don't. That'd be like me running H from mexico and when I got caught claiming that these fascist rules don't apply to me. Aiding the enemy in any way shape or form is a crime. If I just started shipping radioactive materials to some terrorists because I believe in their cause, its still against the law. I'm still held accountable for it. Perceptions have no place in law. If its against the law and you do it, you're a criminal. Even if you're a corrospondent
Message Edited by Ipseck on 06-18-2004 01:03 PM