Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Allow smugglers to slice bounty hunter terminals to ADD or REMOVE players to terminals. There should be some restriction on what type of player can have a bounty put on him, such as overts, Jedi with TEFs, and smugglers who recently added or removed a bounty on a player (the act of puttinga bounty on a player makes the smuggler eligible for a bounty put on him). The Smuggler should have to front the money when adding a bounty, or pay a portion (depending on his slicing skill) of the bounty to take a player off.
REMOVING A BOUNTY: This is relatively straightforward -- choose Remove Bounty, receive a list of players who have bounties, and pay the fee to remove it. In turn, the smuggler becomes eligible for a bounty to be placed on him.
ADDING A BOUNTY: The smuggler gets a command, /targetForBounty, whch they can use to get a datapad biosignature of the targeted player that is good for 24 hours. The only players this command would work on are those eligible to have bounties placed on them -- Jedi with TEFs, overts, coverts with TEFs, and other smugglers who have active bounties. Before the biosignature item becomes invalid (24 hours) the smuggler has to slice it into the BH terminal to add the bounty. The smuggler can set the price with minimums and maximums depending on the difficulty of the mark. Optionally, getting a biosignature can make the smuggler temporarily targetable by the mark.
WHAT IT ACCOMPLISHES: Adding a bounty will add a lot of fun and interactivity -- and challenge -- to potential marks, smugglers, and bounty hunters. It is somewhat self-policing: players have to actively do something to make themselves eligible as a mark, the smuggler has to be near them to get the biosignature, bounty payout minimums/maximums will eliminate griefing and abuse to non-combat players (who wants to kill a Rebel chef for 1500cr?), and the smuggler makes himself a potential mark by adding or removing a bounty.
I think this idea is a little over complicated.
SBRDOC (I think that's the name) posted the idea of a PvE/PvP switch that is in your character sheet- THAT idea works.
The default setting would of course be PvE. You have to ACTIVELY go into your character sheet and CHANGE the switch to PvE.
At this point a window would come up (ala destroy character) that would require you to type "Yes! I agree to a PvP encounter".
Then that's it you are set!
Anyone who claims they are forced into PvP with this VERY simple system set up is clearly misunderstanding how the system works.
As far as making PvE BHs on par with PvP BHs:
First we have to admit that an encounter with a living- breathing- player IS more difficult than an NPC.
"Good against a remote that's one thing- Good against the living- that's something else"- Han Solo
The answer is NOT to change missions rewards (especially since you could end up on the terminals without ever taking a mission) but to make PvE BHs equal to PvP BHs.
One way (from many) to do that is to increase the HAM of the NPC BH-yes but also increase the FREQUENCY of the BHs and the NUMBER they come in as the PvE player defeats them. Example:
PRODO is a PvE only player who of course has never touched his PvE/PvP flag switch. His penchant for sliced weapons and spices have landed him a bounty.
Because he has his switch set to PvE his name never comes near going up on the BH bounty terminals- instead 60 minutes pass before a PvE bounty hunter named IG88 has come for him. Prodo dispatches him easily though by kiting him and using health shot.
Then about 40 minutes later another NPC BH named Greedo shows up- a lot harder to kill but Prodo survives.
20 minutes later while Prodo is in a cantina TWO PvE BHs show up. Both of them are of the strength Greedo was- but again, Prodo survives- Barely.
5 minutes later two more NPC bounty hunters show up- One as strong as Greedo and the other MUCH stronger. Plus, Prodo hasn't had a chance to really heal from the last encounter. It doesn't take long before Prodo is emerging from the cloning center.
Simple no?
PLUS visibility should work like a scale as far as the bounty amount. Example:
VISIBILITY
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Bounty Earned10k 50k100k 150k 200k
This way even after you become eligible to go on the BH terminals the bounty may be so small that no one will bother you but eventually EVERYONE will want you dead- just how it would be in RL.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Rueger_Karde wrote:
The smugglers is where it gets a little different, because they are career criminals. But even to that I say deal with it because you can CHOOSE to not skim off the top therefore CHOOSEING to not play pvp. Its so cut and dry but you bog down the issue with this playstyle crap. Your PvE playstyle is going to have to incorperate not breaking the law then.
I never considered myself a career criminal. I always found my smuggler to be a man with morals and a will to work against what he perceives as wrong. By joining the rebellion I don't consider myself a criminal I consider myself a being fighting for the greater good. I assist with the cause by transporting materials from one location to another.
People may call me a pirate, but I only board vessels that are directly aiding that which I perceive as evil.
While the Empire will label me a criminal, it does not mean that is my mind set or my inclination. I play as an honest person who may have a dark tendency to transform a jawa into a running torch,(can you really blame a guy for wanting to do that? He should get medals for it) but is without a doubt a person who operates from what he feels is right not what is criminal.
Rueger_Karde wrote:"If I get what you said correctly the only way a Smuggler could get a potential mark is if they themselves tampered with the BH term, to either put on or take off anothers bounty? If this is true then this is a good compromise... it is a clear straight forward option to participate in PvP and it will not take away from what smugglers can already do.
This IS the type of contirubation we need!"
YA but this is LAME! Putting the actual idea aside, your view of it at least is extremly tame. What about doing the illegal things that smugglers do on a day to day basis.
Let me try another way to get our point across:
You say you dont like PvP. In fact you hate it. You hate the people that do it, how they act, the difficulty of it. You just hate it. What a great punishment for breaking the law?
You know, you guys had me lulled for awhile. And I thank ternque for bringing me back to the light. You cannot **edit**-foot around this issue. The system is already in place, ready to go. EASY TO IMPLEMENT. The only thing that we SHOULD be arguing is which things Joe Shmoe player can or cannot do to keep off the BH terminals. Because they have it easy, they have a straight choice. The smugglers is where it gets a little different, because they are career criminals. But even to that I say deal with it because you can CHOOSE to not skim off the top therefore CHOOSEING to not play pvp. Its so cut and dry but you bog down the issue with this playstyle crap. Your PvE playstyle is going to have to incorperate not breaking the law then.
Please remove your crack pipe before you continue to speak.
THIS IS IN CONCEPT DUMMY!
This system DOES NOT EXIST YET. That is why we are having this debate, in the hopes that when the system goes into concept, and those of us on Test Center start running it through the motions, that is the most well rounded option for EVERYONE.
---
As to the "if you hate PVP, isn't making you PVP a great punishment" comment above.
What is the Punishment to you then? If you love PVP isn't that exactly what you want? How is that a Punishment to YOU? It's a F'ing REWARD! This is the conflict we are all having, it needs to ballance out for EVERYONE. If the answer is a PVP Flag, or permanent Covert/Overt Status where Coverts are PVE, and Overts are PVP... so be it!
Most of the PVP'ers hide behind Covert Status anyway! The Overt % is ONE! O N E 1! That means 99% of EVERYONE else isn't Overt, and is NOT open to being attacked.
One of the big problems I see here, is the PVP Mentality for Trolling. Many of you are itching for a chance to tell us how we don't deserve our way of playing, well guess what, if you weren't such pains in the ass more PVE'ers would USE THE FORUMS and we'd get a more well rounded opinion from everyone.
I took a Poll on Starsider about these official Forums, what I then heard was that people AVOID the forums because its nothing more than "This Guy Is a Scammer! He Sucks!" and "REIGN PWNED ECHO!" posts that make the general conversation more confrontational than conversational.
PVE'ers do not want to be harassed if they happen to kill their BH opponent. If they kill an NPC, they deal with Jabba (as written by the Devs), and not some 16 year old spouting "DEWB YOU FAUXING SUX YOU NOOBN! I'LL HAVE MY GUILD PWN YOU!" and then when you stand there in front of 16 Masters, they yell at you for not accepting all of their duels at once... its THAT kind of nonsense that is what keeps us in our quiet close nit communities and away from the majority of you!
If the game forces me to interact with people I do not wish to interact with, I will stop having a good time. I can /addignore someone in a cantina, I can't /addduelignore so that their Missions and my Visibility will keep them out of my life.
The PVP audience seems to be missing a big point here. If the PC BH's played the game like respectable adults, and not blabbering children, we would be happy to duel them, die or win, be captive, whatever. But when they become blabbering idiots the emmersion for us is gone! If a difficult (No not SBD Difficult Dummy!) Bounty Hunter comes after me, I will only hear "You're coming with me, dead or alive!" and "You're worth a fortune, you're not getting away that easily!" not some teenage dribble about my "leetness" or lack thereof.
As much as it troubles me to continue to argue the same point, I am not going to go quiet. That is what has us where we are today, people not speaking their mind. You know on Test Center, everyone that is Overt is considered safe from PC attack? You will be banned from Vendors, Cities, and possibly the server if you attack another player without permission. Through this setup, they have a very beautiful community, where the idiots are quickly added to ignore and the Devs deal with those that cause trouble even after being ignored.
PVP is consentual, PVE is not. Playing a game means you wish to PVE, you cannot avoid the Environment, but we should be able to choose to avoid other people who FAIL TO PLAY THE ROLE OF A STAR WARS CHARACTER PROPERLY.
The Right to Choose IS Universal, we offer it to you, please do the same to us.
Rueger_Karde wrote:Wedge, I like the idea of Imps taking a faction loss for being cought. I was wondering how that could work. Great idea.Rockweaver, you quoted me but didn't say anything about it (or did the quote belong to what "this" entailed at the beginning of your post)Rockweaver said: "This is about the RIGHT to CHOOSE not to have those encounters, and being told "Well don't play that part of the game"What are you doing when you choose to not PvP? You are not playing part of the game because that entails things you dont like. How is this different from you not carying sliced items. You will get to choose to not have these encounters just like you would by not going overt reb and sitting in theed.I dont think its different, just another area of risk vs reward the devs are offering us. And you want to throw it away.
And you say you repeat yourself too much... sheesh.
REPEATING - PVPers should NOT have an advantage over PVE'ers simply because they are willing to fight other players. This means that a PVPer who happens to be on a hunt, should not be more powerful than a PVE'er when attacking the same thing. It is bad enough that the games wealth based mentality is what it is, the PVE'er is probably already at a disadvantage because so many PVP'ers sit for 15 hours a day running a loot macro to get Crystals or some such and sell to buy their Uber Krayt Double Sliced Weapons and Gear. (Before you jump on me for that, it is THOSE people, not necesarily YOU, that we don't want to deal with.)
If I have a 10-100 Damage Gun, and Master Pistoleer, and the PVPer to my right has a 10-100 Damage Gun, and is also a Master Pistoleer (poor guy) we should do the SAME damage at the same rate. If the PVPer can then have their items illegally sliced, they would be given an unfair advantage in PVE over us, just because they are PVPers.
IF the Bonus is for PVP ONLY, I have no problem with that, you all slice away and kill eachother all you want. It is when PVE'ers experiences are lessened because PVPers become more powerful than they already are. PVPers don't care what they do compared to what the Lore would dictate, as long as they get that bonus and score that extra hit, PVE'ers are concerned with Lore for the most part, and your choices (when you are then forced on us) lessens our rights as customers and players.
PVP the way most people do it, is NOT the way PVP was intended to be. If you remember back when, there used to be Battlefields and people used to actually place bases and raid. Its now that all the PVPers have no content and sit in Theed harassing entertainers, that these conflicts come up.
Sending your Kimogila to attack his AT-ST while shouting "YOU ARE SO PWNED" is not Star Wars. We choose to do things closer to the Lore, when every PC BH that would be coming after us also sticks to the lore... then sure... send them my way. But the REALITY is that PEOPLE will ruin and otherwise straight forward system, and the Devs must be prepaired in advance to protect players from exploit, grief, and harassment.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
They can still hunt down players Ternque, but they shouldn't be able to hunt down the players who have had no interest in PVP. It's not so much an insult if they think about it. They have their own mature community members who would understand that others don't care to be in PVP of any kind and will respect it.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 06-18-2004 09:56 AM
First of all, I completely understand that many PvE'ers want absolutely zilch to do with PvP. I was not addressing the issue that you are describing to any degree at all. If you go back up and read my post. I reprimanded the guy I quoted for hastily generalizing that all pvp'ers are not roleplayers. I see you say the same thing yourself. This is a stereotype, and I don't appreciate it being put upon me. No thank you.
Perhaps you'll read my many posts which do desparately attemp to find solutions for PvE'ers while at the same time maintaining the "bite" of this contraband system. I have shown alot of respect for them, as I've done nothing in the past few days but think of ways to fix their problem. Don't assume otherwise.
To be sure I'm not really sure what you are refering to in your post above. Please note my many recent posts to institute smuggler missions that are of lower risk and make it easy for a PvE smuggler to remain off the terminals. Same smuggler xp, lower visibility risk. Whew! I hope you weren't incinuating that I have no respect for the PvE'er. I have respect for the law (that I will break), nothing more nothing less.
THIS IS IN CONCEPT DUMMY!"
YA but this is LAME! Putting the actual idea aside, your view of it at least is extremly tame. What about doing the illegal things that smugglers do on a day to day basis.
Let me try another way to get our point across:
You say you dont like PvP. In fact you hate it. You hate the people that do it, how they act, the difficulty of it. You just hate it. What a great punishment for breaking the law?
You know, you guys had me lulled for awhile. And I thank ternque for bringing me back to the light. You cannot **edit**-foot around this issue. The system is already in place, ready to go. EASY TO IMPLEMENT. The only thing that we SHOULD be arguing is which things Joe Shmoe player can or cannot do to keep off the BH terminals. Because they have it easy, they have a straight choice. The smugglers is where it gets a little different, because they are career criminals. But even to that I say deal with it because you can CHOOSE to not skim off the top therefore CHOOSEING to not play pvp. Its so cut and dry but you bog down the issue with this playstyle crap. Your PvE playstyle is going to have to incorperate not breaking the law then."
You tell me I'm using a crack pipe? Get your responces straight.
I do apologize if you couldtn' see the sarcasim in the line about you hating PvP. Since that post I have been trying to K.I.S.S.
Please respond to more of my posts.
EDIT: /thank to the 5 starer
Message Edited by Rueger_Karde on 06-18-2004 10:48 AM
Ternque01 wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:They can still hunt down players Ternque, but they shouldn't be able to hunt down the players who have had no interest in PVP. It's not so much an insult if they think about it. They have their own mature community members who would understand that others don't care to be in PVP of any kind and will respect it.Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 06-18-2004 09:56 AM
First of all, I completely understand that many PvE'ers want absolutely zilch to do with PvP. I was not addressing the issue that you are describing to any degree at all. If you go back up and read my post. I reprimanded the guy I quoted for hastily generalizing that all pvp'ers are not roleplayers. I see you say the same thing yourself. This is a stereotype, and I don't appreciate it being put upon me. No thank you.
Perhaps you'll read my many posts which do desparately attemp to find solutions for PvE'ers while at the same time maintaining the "bite" of this contraband system. I have shown alot of respect for them, as I've done nothing in the past few days but think of ways to fix their problem. Don't assume otherwise.
To be sure I'm not really sure what you are refering to in your post above. Please note my many recent posts to institute smuggler missions that are of lower risk and make it easy for a PvE smuggler to remain off the terminals. Same smuggler xp, lower visibility risk. Whew! I hope you weren't incinuating that I have no respect for the PvE'er. I have respect for the law (that I will break), nothing more nothing less.
This comes down to a numbers game I'm afraid.
You are a rarity, as a PVP RPer. I am a PVPer myself to some degree, but I only PVP with my friends, as I know they are not using exploits, hacks, double slices or anything like that, and will not DB if that is what is agreed on. So I would call myself a PVE'er before I call myself a PVP'er as it is a rare day that any of us actually duel.
The PVPers that I (and those of us who are pro-PVE have also) come in contact with, are usually young, brash, often educated but imature players who get PURE JOY out of ruining someone elses time. This of course is not limited to PVPers, but 9 times out of 10 when we find someone Spamming that they are selling Mando armor or Stormtrooper armor out of their vendor and it turns out to be an empty pack... its usually someone from a PVP Guild, and a known PVPer.
If everyone were as intelligent and respectful as some of you from the PVP side are proving to us you can be, then everything would be fine. But there is no mutual respect between players, and without Mutual Respect, PVP holds no interest for me.
Can we at least agree that there are some PVPers out there that are hell bent on ruining the time for everyone else? If you fail to recognize at least that truth, I think we can get no where, because those people ARE in the game, and without protecting other players right not to have to interact with those poor souls, you are really condeming us to unwaranted Torment.
WE ARE CRIMINALS!! THERE ARE NPC POLICE FOR A REASON! NOT EVERYONE IS A MASTER AND NOT EVERYONE CAN FIGHT EVEN THE IMPERIAL PATROLS!! IF YOU ARE A MASTER, GOOD FOR YOU! YOU DESERVE TO BEAT THE STORMTROOPERS!
Problem is... in the PVP community, everyone IS a master. Because it is the grind to Master that you do, rather than leveling up slowly like much of the PVE Community. To you, an NPC bounty hunter is nothing... because you stack yourself to be invincible to most NPCs... but to say we can be attacked by PC BH's, means we would then have to focus on being competant fighters, rather than the joy we get from exploring a dungeon, or conversing with friends while looking out at Tatooine's Twin Suns.
It would change the way we play the game, it wouldn't change anything for you, get it? If this hurt your community, as it is going to hurt ours, you would be reacting the same way. Please try to show some intelligence by at least seeing these points, as you cannot change our values, and our opinions.
The problem is when PVE'ers are griefed and out damaged by PVPers because they have higher end equipment available to them by being open to PC bounties. If you give perks to those willing to PVP, and restrict those from PVE'ers, whats the point of being a PVE'er?
Avoidence of PvPers
We need better gear for our play style just as much as you need better gear for yours.
Illegal goods will increase the possibility of PvP though and you don't want that to happen do you?
Since NO ONE is playing their role properly, you can hardly say one side deserves to have features from the film that the other side doesn't. PVE'ers go out in Solo Groups, Get Buffs, Spice, and Sliced Items... PVPers stack foods, and dabble in professions, wear items and use items that their faction wouldn't have access to. Sure this is a very Star Wars Idea to be attacked if you Smuggle, but the players aren't following Star Wars as it is... so you give them more opportunity for Griefing and general Harassment.
Again we are talking about Bounty Hunter PvP, restricted skill point use very little dabbling available. In addtion, all players can gain visibility more likely someone who is an uber power gamer will be on the terminals before the weaker ones will. May have Bounty Hunters going ater each other too 
The IDEA is perfect, its the REALITY that is flawed.
Merchant with a bit of pistol is NOT going to be able to compete in combat with a Master BH. It's a no-win situation.
Merchant will have the money to pay us to remove them from the terminals. Therefore avoiding PvP. BTW, what would a Droid Engineer/Merchant be doing on the terms anyway? With Vehicles they don’t need Armor or Weapons to service their harvesters. Plus their small amount of Visibility will fade. In addition, Player Bounty Hunters may wind up with more TKM/Fencer/Doc templates to worry about. Uber competition for an MBH, how will they know until they find their mark?
This is NOT general PvP, it should be calledPvPlayerBountyHunter