Smuggler Archive

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

The smugglers is where it gets a little different, because they are career criminals. But even to that I say deal with it because you can CHOOSE to not skim off the top therefore CHOOSEING to not play pvp. Its so cut and dry but you bog down the issue with this playstyle crap. Your PvE playstyle is going to have to incorperate not breaking the law then.

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I never considered myself a career criminal. I always found my smuggler to be a man with morals and a will to work against what he perceives as wrong. By joining the rebellion I don't consider myself a criminal I consider myself a being fighting for the greater good. I assist with the cause by transporting materials from one location to another.

People may call me a pirate, but I only board vessels that are directly aiding that which I perceive as evil.

While the Empire will label me a criminal, it does not mean that is my mind set or my inclination. I play as an honest person who may have a dark tendency to transform a jawa into a running torch,(can you really blame a guy for wanting to do that? He should get medals for it) but is without a doubt a person who operates from what he feels is right not what is criminal.

This whole thing would Open up Thug or Imperial Griefing of Rebels. Hah I can attack you because you killed an NPC Imperial. This is the purpose of Faction Points to begin with. Granted, I would like to see more penalties FROM NPCs if a Rebel opennly attacks Imperial NPCs.... but when you give the right for one Player to attack another, against the second players will, you are telling him what he can or cannot do in a game.

This is NOT a personal thing. We are not against YOU individually. We are against the PVPers who ruin the whole pot. Unfortunatly a few good PVPers don't make up for all the bad ones, because it only takes 1 idiot to ruin an otherwise good time.

This is about the RIGHT to CHOOSE not to have those encounters, and being told "Well don't play that part of the game" is just an insult because we pay the same 15 bucks that you do, and we are not going to have Less Content than you because we prefer not to bicker and brawl with 14 year olds.

Before you say there is less PVP Content than PVE Content... PVE CONTENT IS AVAILABLE TO PVPers!

This is like us saying, you can't go to the Geonosian Cave anymore because you PVP. Is that fair? of course not! Its the same idea though, and that is our problem, you are saying our gameplay should be restricted based on our player style.

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

Alright, how about this.

Who is the most feared individual in the galaxy in star wars? Well depending on who you ask...Jabba would be up there, why? Because of the resourses he has at his fat fingers. He has the ability to get the best bounty hunters to work for him. Who else is feare? Vader, not because the average guy worries about Vader taking his time to track him down, but because of the resourses of the Empire, who can use the resourses to hire bounty hunters.

Also, in the movies, only the Empire and Jabba actually hired bounty hunters (forget ep II for now...lol)

So why not make DIRECTLY screwing with Jabba or screwing with the Empire the things that can get player bounties. Darth isn't going to call a bounty on someone with a sliced weapon in Kor Vella. Probably even if he did it time and time again. Jabba probably isn't going to waste a 75k in payout credits on someone who justskims a little off the top, that kinda thing is probably expected in his business.

That was of course from a more RPing aspect of my idea. Now for the nuts and bolts.

Just make it so that only High level Illegalitys cause player bounties. This will take care of the Empire. But this leavesus with a keyquestion only moderatly asked in thisgiantthread, "what are thethings that are highlyillegal".You wouldalso have to make it so that many minor offences (such as basic weapon slices and low to moderateend spices) cantadd to be highly offencive. Kinda like making sure 5 mistamenors (sp) doesn't equal one felony.

As for jabba, its even simpler. Just dont get in negative faction withhim. Doing missions will get you faction, getting cought cheating negates it. If you cost Jabba more money than you are making for him...bam, player bounty.

Moderatly illegal stuff calls in the NPC bounties. And quasi illigal stuff just gets you a TEF and maybe fined.

This provides you a way to keep of the bounty hunter terminals by defualt. Its not like in the other posts where you HAVE to do x, y, and z to STAY OFF them. Instead its only x, y, and z to get you on them. So you have to DO something bad to get on them. This gives you a choice.

Dont want to get player bountys, dont jack with Jabba. That one is very easy because you can see how you are standing with him.

The imperial one is slightly more difficult, but I think has the answer we need.

Maybe cariying a crate of high end spice is highly illegal (therefore getting a player bounty), because you will be selling it. However carying just a few of them will only be moderatly illegal and get you NPC bountys. Sure ti will cost you space in your inventory, and more trips to your house, but is that too much of a price to pay for the best spice the galaxy can offer?

Maybe sliced LOOTED weapons (DOT) are highly illegal.Sorta like black market weapons. Sliced reagular weapons only give you NPC bountys. If you think about the consequences of something like this, it benefits the PvEers. Correct me if im wrong, but do you guys regularly use DOT weapons? Those seem to be something that high end PvPers enjoy. Maybe those boys leave the big weapons at home most times because of this, so there is less 1337 guys running around.

Maybe using the word "pwn"or "r0xx0r" becomes highlyillegal therefore getting a player bounty on your head. You can refrain from doing that can't you?

The point is, make the levels of legality a very clear line. That way someone who wants to be ahard core criminal with the extra bonuses of doing something illegal (why is it illegal if it wasn't unfair for someone in the first place) witht he risk of the bounty hunter. AND someone who is moderatly breaking the law only has to put up with NPC bountys, easer to kill, and less crap to put up with, but slightly less perks (but you are still getting everything you have right now).

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

Im sorry, but I think your entire point is nulled do to the fact that there will bea major resructering of how combat works. They are trying to keep PvP from doing this. You are basing you opinions of PvP on the current why combat works and saying no to an idea based on facts that will change before this idea will be implemented. PvP wont be about the best armor buffs and stun guns anymore.

There will always be the 'best'. All weapons and armor will not be made the same. The mind set and attitudes will persist and the role-players who pvp will still be scarce. Exploiters will do anything to win and players will still have no interest in pvp even after the combat revamp.

We dont know the numbers yet, what we have to do at this point is argue about the CONCEPTS. The concept of a player bounty is exactly what this game needs. You cant get bogged down in, "well they are uber and I will have no chance" because by then you have no idea how uber uber will be. Let the devs worry abou the numbers, that is thier job. We have been givin the chance to worry about the concepts, and we wasted 30 pages on "PvPers are different than PvEers".

They are not so much different, but they enjoy different aspects of the game more than others. The concept of the player bounty is NOT what the game needs, it is the concept of being punished for doing something illegal or carrying something illegal. There will always be those who stack defenses or try to be the best mix of abilities as the skill points system supports that. A Droid Engineer/Merchant with a bit of pistol is NOT going to be able to compete in combat with a Master BH. It's a no-win situation.

Player bounties are the way to go, and THAT is what is going to save this game, not Jedi, not chef, not Image Designer, it will be player bounties.

Again, it is not player bounties, it is the idea of real consequences for illegal activities.

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

Ok Caylin thats great. But the fact remains that the Empire is in charge, and DOES see you as a career criminal. They have the resourses to hire the player bounties. So weather you think you are or not, you are playing a career criminal.

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Ever hear that might doesn't make right? France and England had this wonderful little party that lasted a good number of years, where people who did attrocious things to the other sides population would be hailed as a hero for their cause, not a criminal. For a more modern perspective, look at the middle east.

I am all for a PVP Only Perk. Like a modifier to a To-hit against a PLAYER.

The problem is when PVE'ers are griefed and out damaged by PVPers because they have higher end equipment available to them by being open to PC bounties. If you give perks to those willing to PVP, and restrict those from PVE'ers, whats the point of being a PVE'er?

We need better gear for our play style just as much as you need better gear for yours.

Since NO ONE is playing their role properly, you can hardly say one side deserves to have features from the film that the other side doesn't. PVE'ers go out in Solo Groups, Get Buffs, Spice, and Sliced Items... PVPers stack foods, and dabble in professions, wear items and use items that their faction wouldn't have access to. Sure this is a very Star Wars Idea to be attacked if you Smuggle, but the players aren't following Star Wars as it is... so you give them more opportunity for Griefing and general Harassment.

The IDEA is perfect, its the REALITY that is flawed.

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FrankLee wrote:
The idea of having the risk of being hunted by a Player BH (who may or may not be a complete jackass obsessive-compulsive stalker) is what allows the Jedi to have the flexibility to be hugely powerful. It's still a widely grief-able system, but at least the Jedi reap the rewards of that risk.
I don't propose that Smugglers be that strong, by any means. I think there should be a happy medium. If you run missions that give you PvP visibility, the reward should be appropriately high. If you run missions that aren't as risky, keep the reward low, but keep the visibility PvE, or rapidly-decaying.

If a smuggler gets enough visibility to warrant a PvP attack, he should have some good, and immersive, ways of both _finding out_ about it, and _losing_ the flag. Like:

-Smuggler Bob heads to a Cantina, and chats with the barkeep. The barkeep (or any slimy NPC) tells him he's a wanted man, that so-and-so put a contract out on him. Or, if the guy's actively being hunted, as in BH-Joe picked up the bounty, the Barkeep tells Smuggler Bob that BH-Joe is coming after him.

-Smuggler Bob takes a quick shuttle hop, trying to slip a tail. He heads to another seedy gin-joint to see if he's managed. If the word on the street says no, he makes a few more jumps, maybe heads offplanet.

-Smuggler Bob goes to the source, brassing it out with Jabba. He explains why he had to dump the spice, or why the Rodian didn't pay up enough, or whatever. If he's a quick enough talker, maybe Jabba drops the contract.

If all else fails, Smuggler Bob should have a chance to get a 'tell' or a note, a call, a com, whatever you want to call it, from a pal if BH-Joe shows up to kill him. Imagine if your local spynet operative just took 5 seconds to tell you he sold your DNA profile to BH-Joe and he was dropping you a line... you'd get out of Dodge fast.


If someone's too lazy to execute one of several dodges to get out of PvP, or if they really want the struggle, then hey, let them have it.
My main idea I guess is, you can add the content of PvP possibility with a lot of immersion, but don't _mandate_ it. If Smuggler Bob doesn't mind ferrying ancient bothan relics instead of hot spice, let him stay unattackable. He still gets to do smugglerish things, benefits from the revamp, and doesn't have to fight leetspeaking asshats all the time. But if he wants excitement and adventure, pay him for it.

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Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 06-18-2004 09:56 AM

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RellikCro wrote:

While others try to find ways to impliment a system beneficial to all you are still hell bent on forcing your playstyle on everyone. Your way or the highway it seems.

Why don't you stop trying to force feed us your playstyle and start contributing to ideas that will benefit all players. We do not want your playstyle.. is that simple enough for you to understand?

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First, you do not know my playstyle. Second, In order to get the revamp done the BEST way, you cannot have NPCs doing the Job of PCs. What you are suggesting, is to give people a choice between an NPC BH or a PC BH. Why not then give people a choice between a NPC Doctor or a PC Doctor. I hate having to wait in the Medic center while being ignorde by medics, just interested in healing tumblers. But that is there playstyle, to ignore other players.

The ideas have been presented, low level illegal goods -- no visability (therefore no chance of PvP), high level illegal goods -- high chance ( a possibility of PvP) <-- NOTE: No force involved .. is that simple enough for YOU to understand?

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Rueger_Karde wrote:

"They can still hunt down players Ternque, but they shouldn't be able to hunt down the players who have had no interest in PVP."

Then those players are getting a distinct advange. Your asking that YOU guysonly get arrested by local police (NPCs) whileothers have to putup with the FBI (PC) for breaking the same law. That sounds a little unfair to me.

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Asking players who only play against NPC's and have no interest in the GCW or PVP to be hunted down by players does not sound fair to me.