Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
DRWolfe wrote:
Guys, we're making a system so every individual can decide PvE or PvP for themselves. Take a look a couple of posts up and give your thoughts. We know there is a difference of opinion on PvE and PvP and it doesn't do any good to continuously debate it or flame each other. Let's make a solution!
its risk Vs Reward. and its not like u cant get yourself out of the BH terminal. ask a Smuggler, get shooten and loose visibilty or just dont use that illegal stuff.
i wonder what happens if the GCW is working aggain.
- Not sure if I agree with sliced weapons being banned which makes the target attackable. A few possible solutions to this -- some which are changes to slicing and some which are changes to how sliced items are handled as contraband -- are: make slices wear off over time (either totally disappearing or "eroding" a little bit at a time until totally gone); allow smugglers to unslice an item (creates a market for unslicing items before entering a city/starport); have detected sliced items automatically unsliced and marked as sliced with no modifiers ("this item has already been sliced", so the only way to get it sliced again is to have a smuggler unslice it then slice it -- creating a greater smuggler market and making it inconvenient and expensive for the player.
- The scans should not just be done by Imperial stormtroopers but of other police forces (CorSec, etc.).
- Having "city crackdowns" perhaps should be based on the number of players in a city. Coronet, as we all know, is where most people are. When that many people are in an area, the police presence will be higher, resulting in more crackdowns, which will hopefully result in spreading out the population.
- You have to be very careful to not have contraband scan locations (starport entrances, etc.) be "spawn points" where people will sit with contraband and continually attack the police presence. Perhaps the way to handle this is to make the police force "not attackable" unless they attack you, and then only attackable by members of your group. Further, if you kill a police member, a progressively harder one will spawn, until you get to the point where you just get killed yourself because you can't keep up. (Think combat balance.)
- Having the faction for folks like Jabba and Valarian mean something will be good, too. Jabba will progressively hate you if you keep ripping him off.
- If enemies spawn to stop you when moving your goods, the player will just zip past them on the swoop bike. Either allowing pistol-based combat while driving (perhaps with an accuracy penalty and a vehicle speed penalty) or make sure these enemies can knock you off your bike effectively. Making them spawn at the end of the mission is too predictable.
- Player-made spices should never be as good as smuggled spices from Jabba and the like. This will keep the smuggled goods the most valuable, which they should be -- they are the most time-consuming and difficult to get.
KodaVeers wrote:
Ok GM thanx for the info once again. This is like my 4 post here and my last one. Tooo many people arguing and not discussing. Alot of people are saying "FORCED PvP" I've got a solution to this. It's an easy solution I think everyone will agree. It may have been mentioned already. But i have a job and a life and cannot read over 400 repeated arguments.
The forced PvP issue can be haandled this way.
When the time comes just before a Bounty is put on ones head, an in-game email is sent warning you that you have accumilated enough crime against the Empire or double crossed a crimelord. You now have XXXX amount of time to pay your fine or debt(this being the PvE option), or Bounty will be activated.(this being the PvP option.)
If you commit the crime you should have to suffer some consequence. It's up to YOU(the PLAYER)to make it a PvE or PvP.
I think this will solve the issue for those who want PvP and who don't.
The other issue alot of people are saying is that no one will buy slices ne more cuz they dont want the hassle.I really dont have a solution for this other than its all opinionated.
I beileve the PvPer's will buy the weopons to stay competative and get the edge. There are alot of people that will do what they need to, to win. As far as transporting contraband for people, i believe alot of smugglers run in guilds and would provide that to guild members cheap.
Thanx again GM for the much needed info...
maybe we should just change the fail rate on that one or improve the BH term slice task itself.
Nura wrote:
KodaVeers wrote:
Ok GM thanx for the info once again. This is like my 4 post here and my last one. Tooo many people arguing and not discussing. Alot of people are saying "FORCED PvP" I've got a solution to this. It's an easy solution I think everyone will agree. It may have been mentioned already. But i have a job and a life and cannot read over 400 repeated arguments.
The forced PvP issue can be haandled this way.
When the time comes just before a Bounty is put on ones head, an in-game email is sent warning you that you have accumilated enough crime against the Empire or double crossed a crimelord. You now have XXXX amount of time to pay your fine or debt(this being the PvE option), or Bounty will be activated.(this being the PvP option.)
If you commit the crime you should have to suffer some consequence. It's up to YOU(the PLAYER)to make it a PvE or PvP.
I think this will solve the issue for those who want PvP and who don't.
The other issue alot of people are saying is that no one will buy slices ne more cuz they dont want the hassle.I really dont have a solution for this other than its all opinionated.
I beileve the PvPer's will buy the weopons to stay competative and get the edge. There are alot of people that will do what they need to, to win. As far as transporting contraband for people, i believe alot of smugglers run in guilds and would provide that to guild members cheap.
Thanx again GM for the much needed info...
nice idea, but isnt that the task of teh smuggler allready? to remove someone from the BH terminal?
maybe we should just change the fail rate on that one or improve the BH term slice task itself.
but the email idea is definatly good.
i wasnt talking about slicing BH terminals..i think u lost me 
i have been talking about removing possible BH mission on you, by paying a fee (to the smuggler).
i said, that this was allready mentioned by greenmarine. smugglers can slice BH terminals to remove such missions from someone. if the msugg fails, both land on the BH terminal as target.
so there is acutaly a chance to remove yourself from the BH terminal allready, only problem is that its not 100% guaranted
so either visit the smuggler and ask him to remove yourself from teh BH terminal (no PvPoption)
or dont visit him and land on teh BH mission term (PvP option)
Message Edited by Nura on 06-18-2004 07:25 AM
ya this is a cool idea from the smugglers standpoint. But it doesnt gaurantee a non PvP for those who dont want it. But then again if for some reason they can't pay the fine or pay it on time they can seek out the smuggler to slice the Bh terminal and remove the name. But you know us smugglers are gonna wanna be paid...lol...
Nura wrote:
i think u lost me
i have been talking about removing possible BH mission on you, by paying a fee (to the smuggler).
i said, that this was allready mentioned by greenmarine. smugglers can slice BH terminals to remove such missions from someone. if the msugg fails, both land on the BH terminal as target.
so there is acutaly a chance to remove yourself from the BH terminal allready (with smugglers help), only problem is that its not 100% guaranted
Message Edited by Nura on 06-18-2004 07:19 AM
DrakoonShao wrote:
Well before I start out my post let me give some background. My character's only combat skills are those I've gained through the Smuggler tree (and the prereqs) and one-handed 1-3. All my other points are devoted to crafting since I'm also a DE. I'm pretty much a casual player and don't have the credits to devote to top of the line equipment. Needless to say I would probably have no chance of surviving against an actual player bounty hunter.This is also one of the same reasons I don't like to PvP. I have gotten accidentally sucked in a couple times though. I'm a Rebel purely so I can shoot stormtroopers when they try to scan me if I should choose to do so. In doing this I've gotten ganked a couple times by PC Imps, I didn't last long. It's something I accept as a risk for actually playing myself as a Smuggler.
Despite my combat shortcomings, I can pretty much take down any NPC I run into as long as I play it smart and use all my skills at my disposal (Did I mention I'm hardly ever buffed and practically never wear armor ?). From this outlook I can honestlysay that I believethe reward for escaping/defeating a player BH should be greater. NO game has ever had an AI that rivals a real human player. They usually have to cheat and do stuff like make them never miss or have instantaneous reaction times. If they tried to make NPC BH the equal to PC ones, I honestly believe that they would end up being something like the Super Battle Droids in the dungeons or people would always figure a sure fire way to beat them. Therefore I think that that there is no contest that the reward for those who fend off the pc BH should easily be greater than those who do the same to NPC one. This is from someone that hates PvP.
Just another thought from someone who hates PvP. I would have no problem if it did end up being only pc bh that came after smugglers with marks on them. Simply make it so that handling contraband is considered consenting to PvP. I know some might not like this, even I would have to rethink my desire to be a smuggler and I've been one forever. Sliced weapons, spice, and other contrabandare NOT required. You can get by just fine in a PvE world without it. Sure you won't be soloing Krayts (and other "uber" creatures) but you're not supposed to do that anyway. I never wear armor unless I'm going into a dungeonand have run around with unsliced weapons before. I still survived and everyone else could too. Just put the warning on contraband (and since the Smuggler profession deals in contraband it would be a given for the profession) "Possession of and dealing in Contraband opens you up for the possiblity of attack by law enforcement or Bounty Hunters". That would make the PvP consentual, plain and simple. Currently, contraband is a luxury item with no real risks. If you change that and make contraband what it's really supposed to be, people will complain a bit do to the change, but will get used to it. There has to be a risk, that's what smuggler is all about.
Finally, for people like RellikCro and others thatact likeyou are speaking for all PvE'rs, please remember that you DO NOT actually speak for all PvE players. You are offering YOUR point of view as PvE player, don't claim or act likeit's everyone's from a set playstyle. Hopefully my post will show that not all PvE players think in the way that some are acting like we do.
Oh yeah, one final final thing
Okay okay, quite frankly I've had enough. If it is too hard to code a NPC BH, I'd rather all bounties be taken by players. I've thought about this, and while i've recently been a huge supporter of a PvE/PvP "switch", if it is not possible I say to hell with the complaints.
Caylin and some others bring up the point that one can't level up a smuggler without having to PvP. I'm sorry guys, but I don't little sympathy for someone who chooses the life of crime. If you choose the smuggler profession - the profession of a criminal, reaping rewards from breaking the law, then you must suffer the risks. PC bounty hunters are a risk. If anyone should be hunting people it is them.
How long have we cried for real risk/reward? How many times have we thought up plans to get it? Well damnit we got some real rewards now, and we've got some real risks. I suggest you all take responsibility for your actions. The time has come for one helluva change in this game. If the change gets to hot for some of you smugglers, then just play your missions cool and do what you're told - simple as that. I for one am dying to be hunted. I am dying for some real risks for some real rewards.
Hell make two sets of smuggler missions... one is less risky but also offers less reward, the other... more risky and more rewarding. That way those who don't want to take the risks that will get them a BH don't have to. Those who want some danger and excitement (everything a Jedi doesn't crave mind you) can take the harder ones. If a PvE oriented smuggler wants to take on a more risky mission every now and again for fun, that's fine i'm sure that by taking the less risky missions all the time they certainly have some leeway to take some risk.
I can only appologize if this comes off my sleeve as rude, but it's how I feel. If you don't want PvP, then don't consent with yourself to use contraband. You're the ones who make your own choices. I'll be damned if I get jipped out of something that could be absolutely incredible becauseour player base cannot livewith the freedom to make their own choices. That is the point when a game ceases to be a challenge, and begins to be el Lamerito Supreme with extra hot Taco Bell sauce. Using contraband = consenting to PvP. There's the equation.
My solution is this toward smugglers wanting no PvP: institute two different missions on our terminals, risky and er.. not so risky. Risky Missions give better payouts and L00t, but for an equal risk of raising visibility. Low Risk MIssions give lower forms of payout, as well as equally lower risk of raising visibility. BOTH missions will give EQUAL amounts of smuggling XP. This is a fair system.NPC BH's are an insult to the BH community, and are much less of a threat than PC BH's. It is like comparing apples to oranges, there is no separate but equal here. Because they are not equal, a PvE smuggler should not be privalidged to the same rewards. If a PvE/PvP switch were in place it would be in effect equal reward for unequal risk.
Guys/gals, the rules have changed, either we adapt, or we get the lamest revamp I've could even think of. You know it. I know it. Hell even the Pope knows it.
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 06-18-2004 09:55 AM
) law; unlawful; illicit; hence, immoral; as, an illegal act; illegal trade.
I wanted to be clear on this part. If they decde that sliced equipment will continue to be illegal, then they have to institute consequences for using illegal goods.
Consequences serious enough that players who do not wish to face them will do what they can to avoid it. If this means that they do not partcipate in that area, problem solved. If they hire a Smuggler to help them (gasp) Smuggler, problem solved.
You cant have something "illegal" but have no consequences for doing it!
I still think the PvE/PvP "switch" is the best option. Make it similar to how you resign from a faction...a long delay is needed to accomoplish the switch. Maybe 24 hours or so, AND not having any active bounties on your head. I really dont see us making any headway till GM posts more on the issue. All we are donig now is getting more and more flames.
Thats not how we want to be represented to the Devs now that we *finally* have their attention.
Lets wait and see what GM has to say about what is or is not possible for the PvP-thing.
Nura wrote:
KruddMan wrote:
Ah! Fake ID crafting! That'd be great!
Just one method of getting past patrols and landing in starports safely.
The expirementation/quality level would be how likely it is to be noticed as a fake.
I like the idea of Bothans getting bonuses in these types of things too. Bonus to Fake ID Experimentation. Makes sense to me.
I feel that sliced weapons should not be considered contraband, or give much visibilty at all, because wouldn't it take some skill in slicing to recognize that the item has been sliced? They'd have to open the weapon and examine it.
I've posted in this thread earlier that I'm against forced PVP just for taking part in smuggling missions, but I'm all for increased risk and danger. I'd love to be hunted by NPC bounty hunters, even ones I'd have to run away from 'cause they're so uber.
It'd be cool to be chased by the same UberNPC bounty hunter all over the galaxy. Relentlessly pursuing you through space and showing up in your favorite cantina.
If it were a player character doing this to me... I'd just be annoyed and frustrated. There is no end to players. You can't KILL them, really. When they die they clone and come back and may hunt you again some day. There's no way to get them off your back, permanently.
sorry but whers the difference between a ueber NPC BH u wont be able to beat or the RL BH u might be able to beat?
im currently not sure what people are so feared about. u wont loose anything besides buffs and maybe condition. and the condition problem isnt even for sure cause such a death could also be PvP death which doesnt include any decay.
You are not sure because you fail to listen to what the pro-pve'ers, read the last 10-15 pages, are asking for... or in some cases not asking for. We are not asking not to be hunted down, we are not asking not to get killed, we are not asking to have the death be done away with, we are not asking to have consequences for our crimal activies. What we are asking for is to respect our playstyle, it really is that simple. Hardcore PvE'ers play this game, they pay the same monthly fee you pay, they are no better nor worse then you are... so I continiously fail to see why, in general, PvP'ers deem it completely necesary to trash our playstyle. We want PvE based consequences its that simple.