Smuggler Archive

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RellikCro wrote:

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GuntherSlag wrote:

I thought of all people the Smuggler's would understand that this game represents a place full of danger and intrigue. How a BH hunting you after you've committed multiple crimes is considered ruining your gameplay is beyond me. If it bothers you that much, then why on earth are you playing criminals????

Danger Yes, forced PvP no. We are not afraid to dye, hunt, be hunted, or partake in battle... but that does not mean we want to partake in PvP.

Then don't do things that get visability, for one don't be a JEDI and don't carry illegal items. By doing this it will make your PvE experience more .... interesting.

Maybe you guys should be entertainers or something. I expect this kind of reaction from them. I can see the **edit** really hitting the fan when some AFK Dancer is killed because she had a sliced blaster hidden in her leotard

So now not only are PvE'ers a lower class then you (just my interpretation of your words and language) but entertainers are now also "below" you. We represent the largest group of players on the servers, over 90% last count... the casual gamers and RP'ers. Entertainers are a huge social group in the game, you may not like their playstyle, it may seem odd or even "stupid" to you but your not the one playing it so it dont have to be your "cup of tea". But you do need to respect that type of playstyle.

How can you RP when being hunted by a Bounty Hunter IS part of the movies? Again an NPC will not take the place of a real player. You do NOT have NPC medics,entertainers, weaponsmiths,armorsmith, etc. that provide goods. Smugglers and Jedi are both hunted by Bounty Hunters which is a Player profession

And you're absolutely right you have the right to choose. You have the right to choose NOT to slice weapons or carry illegal contraband. You can choose to live a life free of crime. A life that is blissful and happy and clean.

My profession is largely based on slicing and spice, I am a hardcore PvE'er, I deman to be respected as such. I, nor any other PvE'er I have seen posting here, wants a life free of crime and punishment.. in fact most of them have said right out they would enjoy beefed up mobs, tougher missions, and consequences for slicing. But they also want it done in their playstyle! Some are for pure hardcore PvE, some a mix of PvE and PvP, and others hardcore PvP.... there have been some very good suggestions on how to easily incorperate a system that would be beneficial to ALL playstyles. It was appeasing to alot of the more outspoken PvE'ers in this thread and alot of the PvP'ers alike. Hopefully one of these solutions can be a reality so we all can enjoy the game we pay to play.

And a Bounty Hunter 's profession is largely based on hunting marks. We get paid for doing our job with other Players NOT NPCs, yet you refuse another profession the same opportunity to interact with the community. Yes, other players DO NOT need to interact with us. However, if we took that position with all PROFESSIONS how boring would the game be. In addition it is a MMORG and interaction with others is required.

The devs will never make everyone happy. That's impossible. I'm just glad that the majority of players don't ever read these forums. It's too damn depressing. I'm going to go meet them in the game and enjoy myself. Have fun kiddies and don't do anything that might get you killed.

You are right, the devs will never make everyone happy... their job is to compromise and impliment systems that will be beneficial to the largest player base.

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Smug-Druggler wrote:

There needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from "The Skim".

I have acore concern regarding the basic structure of the Smuggling Mission.

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GreenMarine wrote:

At its core, a smuggling mission is similar to a delivery mission. The player is given a crate of illegal goods to move to another contact. The player must then return the payment for the goods to the source of the mission.

Ex: Jabba gives the player a crate of 50 to deliver to a cantina in Mos Eisley. After the player delivers the narcostims, she receives a payment of 12,000 credits. The player then returns to Jabba and delivers 8,000 credits, pocketing 4,000 as payment for the job.

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According to this model the Smuggler will become a de facto thief. A "skimmer" of his clients. I'm not sure I like this because:

1.) I'm a Smuggler. I want to get paid for moving contraband not necessarily by stealing from my shipments (in this case the Contraband or the dirty cash that comes back from it's sale).

Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.

2.) This mission model also forces you to take some risk in angering your clients thus raising your Visibility due to skimming. Personally, I don't want to chance that by trying to figure out how much Contraband/Cash skimming will keep me out of trouble (Steal Little, Steal Big). I want more risk in this game, but "The Skim" gamedevice as a sole means of payment is crude.

I would like to see us getting paid for the service of Smuggling, first. Then, if a Smuggler feels like taking the extra risk he can skim from his shipments.

Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.

This personal choice may leave a Smuggler out of the Spice selling business to a degree, but that's okay for me personally. I'd just make up for it somewhere else.

Regardless, I'd think that by having a reputation as a Smuggler who's known to always deliver the total shipment and always return with the total payment would bring you increasing rewards and trust within the underworld community.

In summary, there needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from The Skim.

Uhhhh! you are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.

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Let me say this:

You are getting paid 4000 credits. If you want to make a little extra on the side then you do the skim.

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RellikCro wrote:

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Nerj wrote:

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RellikCro wrote:

I do in fact know about BH's and their drive to get player bounties and I also am quite aware what SOE has stated on player bounties "We will never force PvP onto the playerbase" and this is why Player bounties have never been introduced.

They also stated that the game would be for the casual player too and yet we have 2 dungeons and the FRS system which is strictlly for the UBER power gamers

The game has alot of content for casual gamers but they must also provide content for the hardcore players as well. This goes back to respecting each playstyle.

The point is that the DEVs stated that they WOULD NOT put stuff in just for the power gamers. Now, they are stating that if you DO NOT want to be in forced PvP then DO NOT carry illegal goods. The Imperial Crackdown is NOT working because, it is strickly NPC based and using an NPC system the rewards will have to be less.

Take a look around you, (in my own experience) 90% of the playerbase cares not for PvP or the GCW (mostly because it only can be done thru PvP) and are casual pve based players. Even SWG own astrometric support this with showing only a 1% overt rating in the last astrometrics.

AND the DEVS are pushing to have more involvement in the GCW, hence the GCW revamp BEFORE ours. By the way this means more PvP not less.

Yes, they have stated that artisians, entertainers, and others will be more involved in the GCW but you must of missed them also stating this will be non-pvp content. SOE, not the devs, have mandated nonconsentual pvp... some speculate it was Lucas but without evidence it is all just rumors. Regardless it has been stated without question that PvP will only be implimented in a consentual way.

It will be, when carrying illegal goods you are consenting to PvP encounters, smugglers will take the majority of the risks. In addition new income streams open up by having smugglers remove players from the BH terms

If player bounties and/or smuggler bounties were inacted that forced PvP unconsentually (in other words neutrals) then you would defiantely see an increase of pve'ers posting on the forums and it will turn into another panic fix like what happened with the "awesome" artisian "upgrade" that was placed and then imediately taken out.

Maybe yes - maybe No, the response maybe see your local smuggler to get you off the terminals. Like we DO have Death Decay even after pages and pages of protests. We have IDers that are the ONLY ones that can change your stats (changed from the begining). These things are NOT going to change even after all the protests.

The difference between death decay, ID stat changes and PvP particpation is that the prior two were not taken out or put in but were already there. They changed who can perform it and how fast it decays because MORE ppl were complaining that items did not decay enough and if you want to get technical WE DID in fact have an impact on decay greatly by drastically reducing the amount. Plus it also gave somekind of "sting" to death that was being explioted simply for a "fast ticket home". So they patched an expliot (expliot just means using a system in such a way that it was not originally intended to be used) which is a must and something we all should cheer them for doing.

Ah death's sting -- decay, Ahillegal contraband sting -- PvP bounties. Using illegal goods with a "sting" is also an exploit, the first phase of which is the Imperial Crackdown. However, there are NOT enough server resources to implement good NPC Bounty Hunters you suggest, actual Player Bounty Hunters will fill this need AND provide additional content for them.

So yes, they do listen. They may not always do what you personaly want but they do indeed listen and we have indeed changed the game as players. Take the Artisian system that was put into place and they put alot of resources into... taken out the next day.

Of course they are listening, that is why we are getting a revamp. Smugglers want to be hunted, you said so yourself. The best solution is PvP bounties. Unless you want to double or tripple the number of servers in the system to handle your ideas.

I am all for PvP Bounties as long as there is a choice, as long as everyone can play the game to the fullest and still have a choice. I do not yell "take away any kind of PvP" so why do you insist on tell me that I can no longer enjoy the game without being thrown into PvP?

I am NOT, what I am stating is that the HIGHER RISK of PvP which is a small percentage of players, as you point out, get a HIGHER REWARD

You are stating in your opinion that PvP has a higher risk, I am stating as my opinion the risk is not higher but just more annoying and game ruining. My playstyle is hardcore PvE, I deserve the very same rewards that a hardcore PvP player has... after all we both pay our monthly payment the same. We both bought the game, we both shell out the manhours per week... you are not in anyway more special then I am.

LOOK Jedi are forced into PvP, as such they get a HIGHER reward for it (More Power). A Smuggler forced into PvP should also get higher rewards. Perhaps you think that we should also be at the same level as Jedi since "I deserve the very same rewards that a hardcore PvP player has" HIGHER RISK (aka visability) means HIGHER REWARDS, and getting visabilty does MEAN higher Risk.

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P.S. -- You do not have to be in PvP to be affected by jerks. There are plenty of players that can drag PvE MOBS on top of you and then laugh at you

Yes I totaly agree. This problem is not PvE or PvP related it is a common grief by all playstyles and at times purely inocent. But I am not forced to engage that person and I can easily add him/her to /addignore and either deal with the mobs or run for it. I have yet to see anyone successfully /addignore a PvP'er coming after them and not be affected by them. If such a feature was added I would be more willing to agree to your PvP terms.

Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 11:49 PM

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Wow, I come back and almost 200 more messages. Are we still debating PvE and PvP? What happened to the nice little system we came up with where one can choose PvE or PvP? Is that not sufficient for everyone, or did it just get ignored? Here's my last summary of it, if it's been further refined, please point the way to it.

The player has a switch set on his character, either in the launchpad settings or by some in-game means like Covert/Overt (probably better if someone wants PvE on one character and PvP on another) that will determine if a character is PvE or PvP for purposes of illegal activity visibility. Covert/Overt will continue to determine PvE or PvP for GCW.

Once a character's visibility has increased enough to get a Bounty, one of two things happens depending on this flag.

PvP Flag: Character is put on the Bounty Hunter terminals for PC BHs to hunt the character down. If the BH dies, another can try as usual.

PvE Flag: A random number is generated (say from 15-180) that indicates how long in actual online minutes before an NPC Bounty Hunter will track down the character. When this timer expires, a ship lands and the BH emerges to attack the character. If the character or the BH is not killed, a new random number is generated (this one from 120-240) and this is how long before another attempt is made. If the BH dies, the random number for the next attempt will be longer (say 180-300). These times can be adjusted for balancing risk vs. annoyance factor.

Either way, if the player is killed, the bounty is removed and visibility is reduced a great amount.

Visibility is reduced slowly over time during which no illegal activity is performed by the character to simulate "hiding out". If this drops visibility below Bounty level, NPC Bounty Hunters stop hunting the character (for PvE) and PC Bounty Hunters get a "Mission Failed" notice, the mission is removed from their datapad, and the character is removed from the BH Terminals (for PvP).

Message Edited by Nura on 06-18-2004 06:02 AM

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DRWolfe wrote:
Wow, I come back and almost 200 more messages. Are we still debating PvE and PvP? What happened to the nice little system we came up with where one can choose PvE or PvP? Is that not sufficient for everyone, or did it just get ignored? Here's my last summary of it, if it's been further refined, please point the way to it.

The player has a switch set on his character, either in the launchpad settings or by some in-game means like Covert/Overt (probably better if someone wants PvE on one character and PvP on another) that will determine if a character is PvE or PvP for purposes of illegal activity visibility. Covert/Overt will continue to determine PvE or PvP for GCW.

Once a character's visibility has increased enough to get a Bounty, one of two things happens depending on this flag.

PvP Flag: Character is put on the Bounty Hunter terminals for PC BHs to hunt the character down. If the BH dies, another can try as usual.

PvE Flag: A random number is generated (say from 15-180) that indicates how long in actual online minutes before an NPC Bounty Hunter will track down the character. When this timer expires, a ship lands and the BH emerges to attack the character. If the character or the BH is not killed, a new random number is generated (this one from 120-240) and this is how long before another attempt is made. If the BH dies, the random number for the next attempt will be longer (say 180-300). These times can be adjusted for balancing risk vs. annoyance factor.

Either way, if the player is killed, the bounty is removed and visibility is reduced a great amount.

Visibility is reduced slowly over time during which no illegal activity is performed by the character to simulate "hiding out". If this drops visibility below Bounty level, NPC Bounty Hunters stop hunting the character (for PvE) and PC Bounty Hunters get a "Mission Failed" notice, the mission is removed from their datapad, and the character is removed from the BH Terminals (for PvP).

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Lol, Trying to CHANGE the way the code works. First, when a player enter an area the area spawns with MOBS. you cannot have a player being tracked from server to server with a timer on them. Second, the easier way to implement the system is with PvP bounties. Third you cannot have NPCs doing the job of PCs, namely hunting other players.

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DRWolfe wrote:
Guys, we're making a system so every individual can decide PvE or PvP for themselves. Take a look a couple of posts up and give your thoughts. We know there is a difference of opinion on PvE and PvP and it doesn't do any good to continuously debate it or flame each other. Let's make a solution!

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The dual system you are advocating CANNOT be done. You cannot have some people show up while others do not for the same actions. You CANNOT have NPCs doing the job of other Players. Remember when DEs complain that only they should sell BH droids. Now there are no NPCs selling BH droids. Bounty Hunters hunt people, that is what they do!

The only other compromise well be a very weak smuggler revamp and very little if any changes from the way it is currentlly.

Message Edited by DaPrez on 06-18-2004 09:23 AM

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Smug-Druggler wrote:

There needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from "The Skim".

*SNIP*

In summary, there needs to be a payment system for Smuggling missions separate from The Skim.

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Nerj wrote:

The dual system you are advocating CANNOT be done. You cannot have some people show up while others do not for the same actions. You CANNOT have NPCs doing the job of other Players. Remember when DEs complain that only they should sell BH droids. Now there are no NPCs selling BH droids. Bounty Hunters hunt people, that is what they do!

The only other compromise well be a very weak smuggler revamp and very little if any changes from the way it is currentlly.

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Who's to say it can't be coded except a developer?

Also, I'm sure there are others who will disagree with you that it CANNOT be done and that you CANNOT have NPC Bounty Hunters hunting players. Namely those who would not want to take part in PvP. I'm not going to get into a big debate over PvE and PvP. I personally do not like PvP all that much, but if the system we proposed was put in place, I would choose to have PC Bounty Hunters come after me (that is, if I ever hit the terminals, avoiding that is the real mark of a good smuggler). Others would choose NPC Bounty Hunters. Give them that choice.

This is not like taking away customers from a crafter by having NPCs sell their goods. This is giving people a choice of how to play the game.

Besides, if PC Bounty Hunters can hunt NPCs, then NPC Bounty Hunters can hunt PCs.