Smuggler Archive
Thread: Bad trend for smugglers.
Jarkatoo wrote:
well i am not liking what is going on 1 bit, it seems we are becoming a FOTM.... i see a trend of a lot of TKA/Smuggler/BH and itis starting to disturb me. BH's are picking up smuggler for the feign death skill. and jedi are starting to complain about it, which only means 1 thing, the golden children are gonna get there way and smugglers will get nerfed once again..and the worse part is the players doing this keep bragging on the flurry forums about it. i feigned and you couldnt do anything about it. so what is happening is if a jedi is beating them they feign death, wait till the tef wears off and goes back and start attacking the jedi, because he doesnt lose his mission that way..
Caylin i think we are going to need your intervention in the outcome of this. BH's are abussing a skill of ours and i know the devs dont like it and thought about getting rid of it, well now they have fuel to do it.......
So what's to prevent the BH from trussing up the Jedi laying on the ground in front of him and dumping his butt if front of the guy who hired him? I say mission complete for the BH.
As for the BH who feigns? Well, sorry fella, looks like that one's obviously got away.
Why does this kind of stuff always brings a suprise to SOE? I know hind sight is 20/20 but what did they think was going to happen when theygave a group of players free reign to kit themselves with uber professions?
I see a pattern here.
"Lets do this and see what happens" rather than "If we do this, what will happen"
and
"Profession A & B are abusing Profession C's abilities. So we are going to nerf Profession C's abilities and leave Profession A & B untouched." rather than "Profession A & B are abusing Profession C's abilities. Lets fix Profession A & B."
TashunkaSapa wrote:I don't see a reason for that. A bounty hunter who plays dead until an opportune moment can still take out his target and succeed at the mission. There's a reason for Feign Death and let's be honest, this is an example of the right time to use it.It's bad enough that FD is so useless in PvP - your opponent can still target you and black-bar you. They should change it so that when you are feigning death, you are no different than any other corpse and cannot be attacked.Yes, FD can be abused... so can any other ability, by many professions. That doesn't justify changing it so that it works in nonsensical ways, the game's already got enough stuff that defies logic.
Does anyone else find it rather pathetic that BH and Jedi are getting better use out of a smuggler skill than smugglers currently are? I think that's the point that galls everyone and why the Master skill cry has been heard. You'd think the profession a skill is found in would have better use of that skill, on a more regular basis, than someone dabbling in that line.
One point to really consider though. FD really needs to stay at the bottom if for no other reason than when we finally get smuggler bounties in this game. IF it becomes a Master skill, there will be worse camping on non-Masters than there currently is on Padawans.
/sarcasm on
But hey, what am I talking about. I'm sure the devs already have it in hand. I won't be surprised to find in Publish 10 that Feign Death has been moved to the BH pistol tree and exchanged for Torsoshot. Except torsoshot will be nerfed to eliminate that bleed and be on a 6x delay.
jbezorg wrote:
Jarkatoo wrote:well i am not liking what is going on 1 bit, it seems we are becoming a FOTM.... i see a trend of a lot of TKA/Smuggler/BH and it is starting to disturb me. BH's are picking up smuggler for the feign death skill. and jedi are starting to complain about it, which only means 1 thing, the golden children are gonna get there way and smugglers will get nerfed once again..and the worse part is the players doing this keep bragging on the flurry forums about it. i feigned and you couldnt do anything about it. so what is happening is if a jedi is beating them they feign death, wait till the tef wears off and goes back and start attacking the jedi, because he doesnt lose his mission that way..Caylin i think we are going to need your intervention in the outcome of this. BH's are abussing a skill of ours and i know the devs dont like it and thought about getting rid of it, well now they have fuel to do it.......So what's to prevent the BH from trussing up the Jedi laying on the ground in front of him and dumping his butt if front of the guy who hired him? I say mission complete for the BH.
As for the BH who feigns? Well, sorry fella, looks like that one's obviously got away.
Why does this kind of stuff always brings a suprise to SOE? I know hind sight is 20/20 but what did they think was going to happen when they gave a group of players free reign to kit themselves with uber professions?
I see a pattern here.
"Lets do this and see what happens" rather than "If we do this, what will happen"
and
"Profession A & B are abusing Profession C's abilities. So we are going to nerf Profession C's abilities and leave Profession A & B untouched." rather than "Profession A & B are abusing Profession C's abilities. Lets fix Profession A & B."
The reason they nerf profession C's abilities, is because it takes less time for them to do this than to work on profession A and B to fix the issue the correct way.
I too don't wish to see FD moved to master, but we can expect the inevitable with regards to FD being nerfed, as i have wondered for a long time how long it'd take to happen. From way back when the old abusers used to lay bleeds on something, then FD till it was killable in one single shot, to what it's being abused for now.
I fear the worst will happen. They destroyed our panic shot, they destroyed our low blow, i think the multiplier in Last Ditch got lowered too, doesn't seem to do as much damage anymore. So FD would be the next thing.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Orcajum wrote:Does anyone else find it rather pathetic that BH and Jedi are getting better use out of a smuggler skill than smugglers currently are? You'd think the profession a skill is found in would have better use of that skill, on a more regular basis, than someone dabbling in that line.
The problem with that reasoning is simple: Smuggler, on its own, is NOT a combat class. Let's be serious - just how far do you expect to get with just Pistols IV, Unarmed IV and Dirty Fighting?
Plain and simple, you're not getting out of a starter city with those skills alone. So, by nature, you pick up other skills to supplement your combat ability (say, Pistoleer).
Guess what? That makes YOU a dabbler! It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as a Smuggler with Pistoleer skills and the other guy is a "Pistoleer who dabbled in Smuggler", the fact is that there is no difference.
If you expect the skills of a profession to be exclusive to that profession, we can do away with skill points entirely and have you choose a character class during generation.
That makes very little sense... If you're a master smuggler/master pistoleer you're not a dabbler. Even if you're a master smuggler/0004 pistoleer, while technically a dabbler, you're still not a bad dabbler since you didn't pick that up to misuse skills. On the other hand, if you're an expert BH/0040 smuggler you're just getting rogue in order to use defensive skills in an offensive (pun intended) way. Last ditch...at least as I read it, was a strong attack meant to be used when you're getting low and you only have time for one more hopeful shot to finish an enemy before he finishes you...it wasn't meant to be spammed right after you use low blow to open up a fight....
Frankly, I almost wish they'd left 4000 artisan as a requisite for smuggler so it wouldn't be so dabbled by high impact combat profs to begin with...not the merchant line of artisan though...that was going too far.
guessit wrote:
Actually the solution is simple; make jedi hunting a thing that only master bh can do.
Until Scatters, Carbines and LLC do a bit more damage to Jedi, I doubt that BH Missions would be moved to Master BH. Mahaps Inv. IV at the highest.
Only a Jedi would suggest such idiocy as pushing Jedi Missions to Master BH. Only a BH would know why that idea is idiocy. There are no real good melee nor ranged defenses if you have Master BH, even if you pickup another profession.
The only classes that need full revamps at one time are classes where everything works together as one. Smuggler is now that at all. We have four unique skill trees that can be worked one 1 line at a time rather then all at once and still come out just as good as a full revamp all at once. We need a minor revamp now. Smugglers need those two skills moved to protect the profession and the game alike from the exploiters.
TheLemming wrote:
That makes very little sense... If you're a master smuggler/master pistoleer you're not a dabbler. Even if you're a master smuggler/0004 pistoleer, while technically a dabbler, you're still not a bad dabbler since you didn't pick that up to misuse skills. On the other hand, if you're an expert BH/0040 smuggler you're just getting rogue in order to use defensive skills in an offensive (pun intended) way. Last ditch...at least as I read it, was a strong attack meant to be used when you're getting low and you only have time for one more hopeful shot to finish an enemy before he finishes you...it wasn't meant to be spammed right after you use low blow to open up a fight....
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Bamsee wrote:
When the DEVs did their newest stupidity with revamps and gave BH's so many free points it made BH the dabbler profession of the game. I personally do NOT want to see Smuggler become another class for wussies to use and abuse because they can't handle not winning every time.
What do you know about being a Bounty Hunter? Let me tell you something: When Smuggler requires 217 points (and mastery of two other professions)to Master, then you can complain about relaxing the skill points for another profession.
Let me put this into perspective:
To become a Smuggler, one need only invest 64 points. To become a Bounty Hunter, even now, requires 106. I'm sure you haven't lef those 42 points unspent, so every Smuggler is more of a dabbler than any Bounty Hunter.
When I started as a BH, we walked everywhere, there were no vehicles or mounts or player shuttleports. When I mastered BH, I had invested 217 skill points and 1860 Apprenticeship XP to get there, and done three times as many bounty missions as are needed today. I had 33 points left - enough for Novice Medic and Ranger Tracking 3.
Would you like the Smuggler revamp to set those sort of requirements on your profession? I think not.So ifan old-school MBH doesn't have a problem with this situation, I don't think a Smuggler has any right to either.
F F S people, no one owns their profession. You play your game and let other people play theirs. They aren't doing anything to you personally.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Orcajum wrote:Does anyone else find it rather pathetic that BH and Jedi are getting better use out of a smuggler skill than smugglers currently are? You'd think the profession a skill is found in would have better use of that skill, on a more regular basis, than someone dabbling in that line.
The problem with that reasoning is simple: Smuggler, on its own, is NOT a combat class. Let's be serious - just how far do you expect to get with just Pistols IV, Unarmed IV and Dirty Fighting?
Plain and simple, you're not getting out of a starter city with those skills alone. So, by nature, you pick up other skills to supplement your combat ability (say, Pistoleer).
Guess what? That makes YOU a dabbler! It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as a Smuggler with Pistoleer skills and the other guy is a "Pistoleer who dabbled in Smuggler", the fact is that there is no difference.
If you expect the skills of a profession to be exclusive to that profession, we can do away with skill points entirely and have you choose a character class during generation.
I think you may have misunderstood the intention of my post. Well, honestly re-reading it I guess I was rather vague. I'm not against dabbling. I think dabbling is a good thing, even though I wish it was structured to facilitate more interdependence between players of different classes.
I'm not necessarily against these classes using the FD skill. What I don't like is that they have a better reason to be using it than smugglers currently do. There is a content driven interaction in the BH/Jedi war that makes FD an important skill to use. For us, however, Feign Death just seems like one more skill we possess, one we use on rare occasions. It just seems that in this case, the player-based content to back up the existence of the skill in the 'smuggler' profession has been handed to other professions. I suppose to my way of thinking, the end-goal of Feign Death, if you will, was to give smugglers a fighting chance once smuggler-bounties were finally added. It seems, however, that this content has been handed to BH's and Jedi before we had the chance to use it in that manner.
I hope that makes more sense. That i'm against BH's and Jedi using the skill, but against the fact they have the content necessitating that skill we currently do not have.
Bamsee wrote:
When the DEVs did their newest stupidity with revamps and gave BH's so many free points it made BH the dabbler profession of the game. I personally do NOT want to see Smuggler become another class for wussies to use and abuse because they can't handle not winning every time. FD need to be relocationed to a new position rather then the at 0010. Move this skill into say... Underworld IV. And while doing this move Last Ditch up to Master Smuggler. yes I know that makes the grind a little harder and longer for Smugglers coming up but it keeps the new wussy FOTM professionals from abusing Smuggler. If they are allowed to continue this trend Smugglers will have cries of nerfs and less will support Smuggler actually getting the revamp as quickly as we should be. This will take away unique skills and as we all know, at the moment, we have very few of those at hand for one of the most loved professions from the Star Wars Universe.
The only classes that need full revamps at one time are classes where everything works together as one. Smuggler is now that at all. We have four unique skill trees that can be worked one 1 line at a time rather then all at once and still come out just as good as a full revamp all at once. We need a minor revamp now. Smugglers need those two skills moved to protect the profession and the game alike from the exploiters.
How about not making Jedi and BH dabbler professions? But the devs have screwed the pooch, haven't they? There is no way that they can go back to the BH community and say "Sorry, we messed up, you're gonna have to master scout again."
So what to do after you have burned all your bridges? How about a 3rd teir to the BH profession only reachable by a Master BH? The "Extraordinary Bounty Hunter" or "Legendary Bounty Hunter"? Something to suck up all those dabbler skillpoints and make them capable of hunting Jedi? After all, there is no hard and fast rule that says that there can be only 2 teirs in a profession. This gives the Devs something to tweek and F' with without having to mess with another profession's abilities. If someone complains that the can't hunt jedi as a Master BH and don't want to be a Legendary BH? Tough.
This can also be used as a model to allow Master Smugglers to move intothe proposed "Crime Lord" profession.