Smuggler Archive
Thread: The CU looks REALLY cool!!!
Ternque01 wrote:I don't get all of this complaining about the level system because we already had a level system in the old combat system, but it was just borked because of uber armor/buffs/insane weapons.
The old level system didn't change defense and offense values of mobs relative to your level!
riotcontrol wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
I don't get all of this complaining about the level system because we already had a level system in the old combat system, but it was just borked because of uber armor/buffs/insane weapons.
The old level system didn't change defense and offense values of mobs relative to your level!
I'm aware of that, but the old system was a good example of what homogenizing and NOT adding in those modifiers will do: you could kill everything.
In a way, them adding those modifiers is the devs' way of limiting players, and it is something that is needed to be done considering we are supposed to live in a "dangerous galaxy" as opposed to a "not so dangerous" one
The sense of danger could have been replanted into the game if they had just worked on minimizing the effectiveness of buffs and armor.
"In addition, the game is more about having fun than particularly worrying about getting killed trying to determine the combat level of a mob because it only cons a generic red. If anything, the level system will allow hunters to be more selective about their prey and tailor the level of difficulty they experience to the rewards of loot/xp they get from a mob."
To my knowledge this was already being done on the servers currently. It has been done since release.
"Perhaps the most important point that must be brought up is that the "fun" in MMORPG's is falling into a fight with a mob that is "just right" for a challenge. The BEST fights that occur are the ones you can just BARELY walk away from! This level system will allow players to find those "awesome/challenging/rewarding" fights MUCH easier, something the old system left you in the f'ing dark about."
So what exactly is fun about something being easy?
"The BEST fights that occur are the ones you can just BARELY walk away from!" You're right about that, but ask yourself why they're the best and why they're the most fun. Is it because you were buffed, and armored to the wahzoo or because you were ill-prepared for the challenge? Chances are it's the latter.
The most fun fights are those you win when you're ill-prepared. Those that just suddenly happen and you find yourself fighting for survival and win or lose you have a great story to tell . The current system allows for the sudden battles and those that players choose to take on. You can tell your great battle stories when you decided to, for instance, look for the Gorax or if you just happened to be enjoying the beaches on Endor and are suddenly attacked by a wild boar.
The "CU" puts in limitations. Limitations that you should not see all that readily. I always attributed the con in the current system to your character's ability to make an educated guess. There are plenty of creatures that con red to me that I managed to best because I knew what I was doing. I knew which specials to use and when. I actually thank that TKA vk HAM nerf otherwise I would be the fool only using one special instead of using all that I had available to me. I never buffed. There were times when I came out of the battle with minimal damage taken and there were times fighting the same creature(s) that I came out on top because I lucked out.
That was fun. The "CU" will remove that completely.
jbezorg wrote:
And with the new system, as it stands, you will need to be a level 80 combat player. In the old system, removing the buffs, armorand the uber weapons the game IS pretty balanced. The core of the system was sound. The add-ons just needed adjustment. The first step should have been done months ago by bringing doctor buffs in line with entertainer buffs.
This is a situation that you and many others will disagree on and you won't be able to talk either side to see their view point. I like the fact that in the CU, the new system is character driven and not buff driven. Buffs were required for a combatant to properly fight things of their actual combat skill and buffs were also used to overstep that combat skill for many other players. I also highly doubt so many people have actually played this game unbuffed as much as they say they do, I'm sorry but I just don't think its fair to the fulltemplated combatants to allow a crafter into the same scale of combat as they can get into. In this way it is fair. You can either spend your skill points on being a hardcore fighter or you can spend your points on being a crafter. Heck, to tell you the truth, I don't even care ifcrafters get the health boosts that combatants get, it still wouldn't change the fact a crafter is NOT a fighter and the combat skill level should reflect that. Disagree all you want but the Dev's seem to agree that crafters should not equal combatants in combat, just as combatants shouldn't equal crafters in crafting. Sorry.
If you want to be able to fight at a moderate level split your classes and that would be more than sufficient to allow you to move around most of the worlds landmasses without too many problems. Combat level on most spawns are 27, if you meet anything higher than that go around it or get some guildmates or friends to help you.
The game was far to solo-centric and was far to dependent on armor and buffs for anyone to do anything at all. Character driven game systems are far superior than loot driven system. I am not against good loot but I am against good loot controlling the game systemto the detrimentof the characters.
Most of the people complaining say the new system doesn't feel like Star Wars. Well the old system was far worst. I never seen a single one of the main characters from the movies or read about a single character from the EU stop to get buffs before they went out on their adventures.Nor did many of them wear armor. These things should be a great addition to the world, not a requirement. As far as the sounds of the original combat, the Devs already stated that they will be fixed and it has not been fully implemented yet. As far as the cheesy partical effects, maybe instead of just complaining about it, start giving them ideas to help fix it for those of us who don't like it. Say, have them allow us to turn the stupid things off in options just like they allow us to turn off shadows.
The old system sucked and band aids weren't going to fix it. They tried band aids for almost two years and it didn't work. This change is a must for this game to continue with actual balance. If they decided to cut everything down like you say, it would only be a matter of months before it would get out of wack again.
I understand your fear ofbeing in a world you love but forced to play with a game system you do not like. I really do. I have been playing in a game system I don't like since the games beta.
jbezorg wrote:
Instead of defense stacking, it's going to be combat level stacking and once again, those hybrids are going to be left in the dust. How do you think a level 65 MTK / M Brawler / M Merchant is going to do against a level 80 MBH/M Commando / M Smuggler in PvP?
FYI, level won't have any effect in PVP. We won't see damage modifiers either way there.
FinderComnet wrote:
This is a situation that you and many others will disagree on and you won't be able to talk either side to see their view point. I like the fact that in the CU, the new system is character driven and not buff driven. Buffs were required for a combatant to properly fight things of their actual combat skill and buffs were also used to overstep that combat skill for many other players. I also highly doubt so many people have actually played this game unbuffed as much as they say they do, I'm sorry but I just don't think its fair to the fulltemplated combatants to allow a crafter into the same scale of combat as they can get into. In this way it is fair. You can either spend your skill points on being a hardcore fighter or you can spend your points on being a crafter. Heck, to tell you the truth, I don't even care ifcrafters get the health boosts that combatants get, it still wouldn't change the fact a crafter is NOT a fighter and the combat skill level should reflect that. Disagree all you want but the Dev's seem to agree that crafters should not equal combatants in combat, just as combatants shouldn't equal crafters in crafting. Sorry.
If you want to be able to fight at a moderate level split your classes and that would be more than sufficient to allow you to move around most of the worlds landmasses without too many problems. Combat level on most spawns are 27, if you meet anything higher than that go around it or get some guildmates or friends to help you.
In short, Yay for built in buffs for combat players
The game was far to solo-centric and was far to dependent on armor and buffs for anyone to do anything at all. Character driven game systems are far superior than loot driven system. I am not against good loot but I am against good loot controlling the game systemto the detrimentof the characters.
Most of the people complaining say the new system doesn't feel like Star Wars. Well the old system was far worst. I never seen a single one of the main characters from the movies or read about a single character from the EU stop to get buffs before they went out on their adventures.Nor did many of them wear armor. These things should be a great addition to the world, not a requirement.
The thing is, when I started playing, it was very Star Wars with people grouping and not alot of armor. You do remember that don't you? Then doc buffs, armor, rare loots. These indicate a problem with those items, not the combat system. Sure the combat system could have been tweeked. and those items addressed on an individual basis. Okay.
Again going back to the inequity of the buff system we have now. Mind stat can't be healed. Mind stat gets the lower buff. Ummmmm.... lower the other buffs to make the other stats more attactive targets? Makedoc buffsa precentage base to eliminate the min/min/max HAM that makes the player dependent on buffs? Lower the overall buffs so a single player can't solo Rancors? Can't heal mind so disable being incapped from the mind stat?
These are adjustment that could have been made over a year ago but SOE was only interested in Jedi then.
As far as the sounds of the original combat, the Devs already stated that they will be fixed and it has not been fully implemented yet.As far as the cheesy partical effects, maybe instead of just complaining about it, start giving them ideas to help fix it for those of us who don't like it.
I and may others already have. How much mor detail must one go into beyond "put the original music and sound effects back" & "remove the cheesy partical effects"?
Say, have them allow us to turn the stupid things off in options just like they allow us to turn off shadows.
The old system sucked and band aids weren't going to fix it. They tried band aids for almost two years and it didn't work. This change is a must for this game to continue with actual balance. If they decided to cut everything down like you say, it would only be a matter of months before it would get out of wack again.
I understand your fear ofbeing in a world you love but forced to play with a game system you do not like. I really do. I have been playing in a game system I don't like since the games beta.
So now we have a completly new system and it's anybody's guess as to what will go out of wack. We have only a few weeks before this goes live.Even in Blair's blog it is stated that this new combat system will require many tweeks or, as you called them, "band aids" after it's live. So what have we got? 2 more years of testing with a whole new set of problems rather than fixing the identified problems in the old system?
You guess is as good as mine and in fact probably as good as the Devs.
Message Edited by Guamarhea on 04-19-2005 05:27 PM
jbezorg wrote:
You ask me to come up with ideas and ask me to address issues. Well I have stated my concern and that concern is"How to get players who are not 100% combat into the GCW and PvP and enjoy it and not get owned". You dedicate 2 paragraphs that basically state that they are SOL.
Wrong answer.
Nice final back handed statement but thats ok. To be able to enjoy pvp and the gcw, all they need to do is join a group and get their CL automatically bumped up to help deal with any NPCs one may encounter. Yes, your right, they still won't be able to go one on one with a combat template.... well, thats kind of the idea, a crafter shouldn't be able to go one one with someone who dedicated their skill points to fighting. Yet, with a group and fighting with strategy, they will be passable soldiers. With the old system and buffs, do you really think they would be any better off? Im' not talking about the god mode level we are at right now, I am talking about dropping everything down to the low level buffs and armor we were at in the first two months of the game. This is a moot point of debate, your not going to agree with me no matter what I say and I won't agree with you, so this will turn into an arguement instead of a debate, as your final back handed statement proves. Yes, I dedicated two paragraphs towards supporting my beliefs on crafters crafting and combatants fighting (now a third.)While you have dedicated post, upon post,upon post,for your arguement, with no possible solution, other than stick with the old abused system, which is already a moot point by now.
As to the others that took the time to reply to me. Yes, you have very good points unfortunately the old system would still leave a very large hole open for loot abuses not just buff abuses. The old system started everyone small and let buffs. armor, and loot, be the end all and be all way of making oneself *uber*, thus it would easily continue to fall into a buff this, nerf this situation. The best way to combat this is to make it truely character driven (which currently it is not, no matter how much you try to fool me into thinking so), And yes, I believe this new systemis farmore character and player driven than the old system. This new system is to allow the character to be moderately powered and give the characters a chance to get moderate to low powered itemsfor enhancements instead of uber loot, thus making it easier to tweak items and skills without full bore nerfs likethe game suffered previously. Youclaim this new system will suffer the power players as much as the old one, yes the power players will have a field day but they will not have as many things topower as high as they were before. The twinks can still twink for that little bit of extra advantage in this new system but they won't be able toget themselves to godmode as easily as they could in the old system. Band-aids for the new system will be able to help the scrapes that it will get.Band-aids for the old system, could not stop the gushing wounds it had acquired through out its life.
Well, I am leaving this discussion as it is, you will cling to your beliefs, just as I willcling to mine. No one is going to change anyones minds here with just words. Either you play the new system and get used to it or you don't and leave.Unfortunately SOE has given us little choice in the matter and givenus little voice in it as well (trust me on this, I hate that just as much as you, I would rather you be heard and they listen... the commmunity would be better for it and the game just might turn out better than it has or will be, under the new CU if we werelistened to more as a whole.)
FinderComnet wrote:
To be able to enjoy pvp and the gcw, all they need to do is join a group and get their CL automatically bumped up to help deal with any NPCs one may encounter.
Dantooine/Dathomir/Yavin starport:
/shout lvl 80 solo group crafters sit in chair
/shout lvl 80 solo group crafters sit in chair
/shout lvl 80 solo group crafters sit in chair
Etc.
