Smuggler Archive

Thread: The CU looks REALLY cool!!!

Datink_Nieleft
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:28 pm
#40






HOTDOG wrote:





Shambler9 wrote:

Thats it? Thats your thread?

Why wont somebody post examples? Those who have found the CU to be a joke have examples of what they claim. I dont see any of that in positive threads.

(I cannot post a positive, need someone else to)








Okay- I LIKE IT.


I'll tell you why:



  • The new armors are cool- I was SO SICK of seeing EVERYONE wearing composite.

  • I can put armor on WITHOUT having to get a buff to do it.

  • I can fight things without needing a buff. Seriously- the Buff situation was like a bad drug habit. And VERY time consuming.

  • My chosen profession is now worth a damn in combat.

  • We have our own pistols and one of them is a suped-up version of Han Solo's favorite pistol.

  • I don't HAVE to be a "pistol smuggler" as our specials work with ANY gun-(something we asked for in many a thread by the way).

  • I can readily SEE if a MOB is out of my league without stoping and examining first. I look and immediately decide fight or flight.

  • MOBs are more challenging. Attacking with specials- instead of just playing moving target (was playing Outcast last night- the AI is much more fun- I would LOVE our AI to duck and cover like that)

  • The new weapons are AWESOME- even though they are equal in most ways the flavor was SORELY needed.

  • Professions like SL and Commando have been retooled so well you might actually SEEthem now (if you can lookthroughthe wall of Jedi)

  • PvP might actually be interesting enough now that people will participate in it. That whole playstyle has been dead for a LONG TIME.

  • Recovery moves have added a new dimension to fighting- KDs were nerfed repeatedly since launch and now we got a system that works.


That's what I can think of off the top of my head-


I mean, SURE, there are things I don't like about it-



  • Like the new colored UI. Seems it would have been easier to tell what was going on with the cool down situation if the icons were two-color.

  • And I'm not crazy about not having a combat cue.

  • Also, I would like to know when I've successfully landed a DoT.

But I think I'll get used to those things or figure them out.


Things like the MOBs levels being too UBER- i don't worry about because IF it goes to live like that I know it will change immediately. I seriously doubt that it will go to live like that.



What I am tired of is all the "OMG this SUCKS" "I'm going to cancel my account" posts.


I mean, you got a team of people out there TRYING to make the game fun again. They are offering us stuff that we have asked for, for a long time and all we can do is complain about it?


It's rude. Frankly.


I'm not saying that there aren't problems and bugs.


There are.


A lot of them.


But we KNEW it was going to be this way.



I'm not saying you have to take whatever they give you and be happy.


I'm saying- can't someone find something good about the CU without everyone questioning their sanity?


This is a good thing- A needed thing.


Let's /bug the parts that don't work but enjoy the good stuff too, man.






Hotdog,..your my hero! That was a great post and it covered exactly how I feel about the CU!


NNNNN


Five gosties for you! Yarr!





GostNDajtink
Original Smuggler
My bowels are loose and I'm a little gamey Want some toast?


NyghtsSecond
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:50 pm
#41

I'd like to throw in a few thoughts here.


Up front, I fall on the side of Rag, LM. Spinning and others. I think we are losing far more then we are gaining.


But then, I never PvP'd or fought high end mobs or did group trips to the DWB or whatever.


I am a mid-level player I guess, most of smuggler and bout 1/2 of CM. I live on Talus, and when I step outside on live, I have to give some thought to where I travel (no buffs or armor). On TC-EP3 this same character is a god among greys.


What my play is like: If I put on an Ubese jacket, boots, gloves and helmet (no buffs). I can go outside on Talus and kill white cons. I have to think about BAF and the type of creature and the surrounding area. If I kill a white I would get about 1k exp. The point is that this experiance is not significantly different from test. No buffs, kill whites, and my rate of progess in live is probably faster then TC since the experiance requirements are lower.


What is different? Well, my target selection is severely restricted. I am watching the fricken tool bar way too much. Combat takes much longer solo for mobs my level. I don't really need Batman style KAPOW effects. And I cannot group unless me going afk without notice every ten minutes is acceptable to your group.


Guess I am into game play more the the graphical look of this or that weapon.


Beyond my personal play though, there is a bigger issue: Will more people like SWG after the changes?


I am afraid the answer is no. Different people perhaps. But more? I don't believe so.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." - someone important...
I am the audience.
rixo1
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:26 pm
#42

ok whats up with this you say it looks cool, but yet I fail to see reasons. the only thing i look forward to so far is no buffs and no 3 hour obligations to buffs



Rixo
Xeranx
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:56 pm
#43



rixo1 wrote:
ok whats up with this you say it looks cool, but yet I fail to see reasons. the only thing i look forward to so far is no buffs and no 3 hour obligations to buffs





If that's the only thing you're concerned about then congrats, the CU will give you everything you're looking for.

I remember there was a day I went hunting with my guild. It was the day I finally mastered TK. I made 333K+ xp in a matter of hours just going after pikets. What was great about it was me and my pet rock beetle seperately took on the pikets while everyone else (the majority of my guild there was ranged) fired on them. At times I took on two pikets at once trying to keep the doctors in our group safe. What professions did I have? I was 3/3/4/3 in TKA, Exploration 4 in scout, novice medic, some pistoleer which I never used and Smuggler.

For a good long time I successfully hindered creatures we hunted if not successfully served as defense for the entire group without relying on other professions to give me my defenses. I absolutely loved that about the old system. Where someone who isn't remotely capable in PvP was able to actually TANK (what is happening in the CU in my opinion isn't tanking) for the benefit of the group. The CU effectively removes that and I spend way too much time worried about my next action (I still can't get the sequence correct or know which action is next when I hit the toolbar to select my next attack) on my toolbar instead of watching everything that goes on screen. In the CU if I'm the highest level person in the group I will always draw aggro and if I'm watching to toolbar trying to deal with one critter I could miss the next critter I unintentionally aggroed and die as a result.

I'm not complaining about higher levels aggroing the creatures, if nothing else it helps the group out, but having to watch the toolbar exclusively for your next attack (because different attacks have different wait times) will get you killed. There's no saying, "Well you have to be more careful" here. There will be a point when you aggro a mob that you didn't intend to and they will kill you while you focus on the one creature or NPC you're fighting mainly by watching the toolbar. It's insane.

Gone are the days of near deaths. My TKA character was never buffed except for about two times I foolishly entered PvP and I was always unarmored. I loved how I would hunt with people or solo, would fight against one mobe or NPC only to unfortunately get attacked by some crazy aggressive NPC and barely make it by the skin of my teeth. I relished those accomplishments. Knowing what attacks would work in certain situations or even having to adapt to a surprise attack was something I valued in the old system. The CU dumbs it down and resigns me to being a chaser of creatures (I'm still concerned if xp is damage based because if it is I'm getting less because I have to chase down a critter in a group while ranged players keep plugging away).

So as good as some view the CU it created a bunch of problems that shouldn't have existed. They could have done so much with the current system and found a way to work it. Instead they gave up. And if the developers (not devs as that is a familiar term and as seen over the last two years they don't deserve to be called devs) feel slighted by any statements here they would do best to reflect on their work thus far and the work of their predecessors and reevaluate how they operate.

I think that's all I say about this now. As I said earlier, the CU started to grow on me, but I thank those who bring up valid points about the CU being bad...it's woken me up.





Teräs Käsi Master 9-27-2003
Master Smuggler 3-04-2004
BasicScumbag
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:24 pm
#44

The CU has potential for sure, (when the Cheesy Effects are gone) But...


Am I the only one to notice that both Smuggler and Pistoleer have about 5 total working skills between them?



Low Blow NEVER knocks down!



So far, the only working skills I have found with these 2 proffessionsare:


Panic Shot- Snares, but not for long enough to save you

Body Shot- does good damage

Fan Shot- does good damage

Stopping Shot- Rooting skillof course,but might ruin the game for Melee folks





This is what I found from 50 hours of testing, has anyone found any others that are working?



-Sylas
cpz
Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:31 am
#45

The things I'm confused about is why have the additional HAM for combat skill boxes and character level mitigations and defence skill bonuses?


Surely you only need one of them?



oooooooooooooooooo
Colonel Narayan Darkfly (RIP)
Master Smuggler
Eclipse

The Awful Truth [now santized for family friendly fun]: One Two Three Four Five Six
Zeritul
Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:27 am
#46

I have been playing the CU and here are my thoughts:


What I don't like: -No combat queue(sp)

-The new UI, you can't even shrink some of the boxes.

-Armor certifications by profession

-A level system and conning


What I do like: -New armor

-Mods and skills for us

-So far combat professions seem to be more balanced(this could change though)

-Doctor buffs are not a necessity any more



My favorite thing is: The Renegade Pistol. I was busy all weekend and didn't get to play, but last night I equipped a Renegade pistol for the first time. That thing is impressive, big, and mean looking. I like it, it will be my pistol of choice. Any weaponsmiths on Eclipse want to make me one?
jbezorg
Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:01 am
#47









TomoRainer wrote:





jbezorg wrote:
Instead of defense stacking, it's going to be combat level stacking and once again, those hybrids are going to be left in the dust. How do you think a level 65 MTK / M Brawler / M Merchant is going to do against a level 80 MBH/M Commando / M Smuggler in PvP?






FYI, level won't have any effect in PVP. We won't see damage modifiers either way there.




Given that, it's 3k hit points vs. 2k hit points and given the same damage per second and armor effectiveness. What is going to happen?


This port to EQ2 commonly reffered to as the CU just took the problems we had with the old system and just made them official.


Problem: Everyone was attacking only one HAM bar.
Solution: Color that HAM bar red, call it health, get rid of the other 2.


Problem: Dependancy of buffs.
Solution: Buildbuffs into the professions as hit points per combat level. However, in the old system, an artisan was just as capable of getting a 2k bonus to stats and a BH, now it's exclusive. Exactly how is that an improvement?


The combat system they are porting in works under the assumption that everyone is a combatant. That isn't the case in SWG... yet.

Message Edited by jbezorg on 04-19-2005 07:04 AM




"There's one, frag her ass" - What the Storm Trooper who spotted Leia should have said
/panicshot - "You have succefully delayed the smuggler revamp 10 seconds"

HOTDOG
Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:57 am
#48






jbezorg wrote:






Given that, it's 3k hit points vs. 2k hit points and given the same damage per second and armor effectiveness. What is going to happen?


This port to EQ2 commonly reffered to as the CU just took the problems we had with the old system and just made them official.


Problem: Everyone was attacking only one HAM bar.
Solution: Color that HAM bar red, call it health, get rid of the other 2.


Problem: Dependancy of buffs.
Solution: Buildbuffs into the professions as hit points per combat level. However, in the old system, an artisan was just as capable of getting a 2k bonus to stats and a BH, now it's exclusive. Exactly how is that an improvement?


The combat system they are porting in works under the assumption that everyone is a combatant. That isn't the case in SWG... yet.


Message Edited by jbezorg on 04-19-2005 07:04 AM




The thing we are overlooking with the old system's Mind bar attack is:


The MAIN reason that the mind bar was targeted was it could not be healed in the field (CMs did have the ability to heal mind at a heavy price).


SO this is not a case of just coloring a bar red and getting rid of the other two.


Maybe a better solution would have been to allow for mind stim packs but I'm sure the Mind Bar weakness was not the only reason we are going to this new system.



As far as the buff situation goes- This system is WAAAAAY better.


You point out a minorinconsistancy that could easily be fixed by allowing for non-combatantstogain HP with their Masteries- BUT I don't think it's their intention to have non-combatants as healthy as combatants so as to make for a dependancy on combatant profs(as body guards and the like-) as we have a dependancy on them (for weapons/armor/food etc.)


The old system was messed up in that- as a combatant- you NEEDED buffs. Especially for PvP.


If you look at what is going on- what the Devs are trying to do is:


Make game play faster and more accessible.


Pump up the GCW- (that means get us to PvP each other in the name ofyour chosenfaction)


Level out confrontations so as there are no uber temps/weaps and creatures that are not meant to be defeated truly never are defeated.



The old system of looking for buffs for an hour- and then spending another hour preparing for battle had to come to an end.


I agree the change is overly drastic but I don't know what they plan to add after this goes in.


EXAMPLE:


The level of creatures thing sucks. To have it set so that (x) levels above my level is a guaranteed kill BITES.


But what if they are doing that so that we can have confrontations with known SW characters? What if they want Vader to come after Jedi and this is a guarantee he will survive the encounter?


I'm reaching but they HAVE hinted at this kind of thing on a number of occasions-



You see? My suggestion is- instead of complaining about how bad you are going to miss the old system (that we moaned about constantly) lets throw in some ideas on how to salvage what we liked about the old and embrace the good stuff about the new.


I don't have a problem with not liking the CU- I have a problem with ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE, not making suggestions with how to fix it and totally ignoring the good stuff that is happening that we ASKED FOR.


That's all.








TEVIN STARGUNNER | WASODO T'GADIE

Rogue | Desperado | Demolitionist Short | Dark | Handsome

Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Commando 0400 | Rebel Capt. Smuggler | Teras Kasi Artist | Unaffiliated
FinderComnet
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:01 am
#49

Things I don't like:

Crashing to desktop every few steps. The fact armorsmiths schematics require far too many resources and time to complete a set of armor and they can't play with their experimentation points completely. Slicing barely doing much change to anything we slice (eventhe money output in terminals are smaller after a slice.) The level multiplier being too stiff, it really needs to be let up a little more (people should be able to defeat things one or two CLs higher than them if they fight intelligently, it makes it feel like more of an accomplishment and it just feels *heroic* when you beat something a little higher than your CL . It is also just no fun to be beaten down by someone/something only a couple levels higher than you in just a few hits.) Many of the specials not working properly. All the super god spawns everywhere, right now it is impossible to take a base or fight someone with an AT-ST. Things need to be leveled to the actual CL of players. If CL 80 is the best of the best and you can't get any better, most NPCs should not be able to get higher than that unless they are a boss or something special.



Things I like:

I like how most of the armors are the same and there isn't one far superior over the other, giving a better choice in style. I like how a combatant is now a combatant with out requiring buffs to fight things that should be their level. I like how buffs are extremely nice to have for the extraedgein combat but not required. I like the fact that entertainers now can buff my experience, faction, and crafting success while at the same time getting rid of my BF. I like how many fights are actually challenging compared to the old "spam the I win button" of the old system. I like ranged combat finally beingjust as viable a form of combat as melee. Shock of shocks and probably heresy on these boards but I actually like the new icons. I like the fact my wife doesn't have to spend her entire play time crafting buffs for the game now as a doctor and can instead come with us on missions instead, making it so we can actually *play* together. I like the fact a group can do better than a solo artist now. I like having more leeway on what professionsI can use to support my Smuggler profession. I like the fact the Devs realized that almost 2 years of bandaids to the old system didn't do any good and a complete overhaul was needed. I like the fact that my friendscame back because the CUis finally coming about.




SO, I like the CU over the old game by far. I will like it even more if they can get the things I don't like fixed.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neugen Morgenstern,
Everything has a price.
cpz
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:56 am
#50

For the most part I agree with hotdog


But LM made an excellent point yesterday that's still sitting with me - they're gradually turning the world into a game. And having levels is a massive step towards cementing the fact that it's a game into the most obvious aspects of the world. As are the OTT visuals.


The swg world out there as it is, is unbalanced, but it feels kind of real. TC, for all the great work they've done balancing professions and spicing up combat, does not feel real. And that's the killer issue



oooooooooooooooooo
Colonel Narayan Darkfly (RIP)
Master Smuggler
Eclipse

The Awful Truth [now santized for family friendly fun]: One Two Three Four Five Six
SpinningCloud
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:12 am
#51

Presicely.


There is more 'game'.


But there is less immersion, less 'world'.






Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Two years of "Soon"(TM), a harsh bunch of lies.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie"

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Dancers can't smuggle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Why are there Jedi, I don't know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

HOTDOG
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:24 am
#52






SpinningCloud wrote:

Presicely.


There is more 'game'.


But there is less immersion, less 'world'.









/agreed.


Thinking about it- I can see where that was the goal from the outset- the creation of a world.


But as people left to go to other games maybe they decided to rethink that goal. /shrug Who knows?


All I know is I AM looking forward to the CU and the things that come with it.


I think I will miss that "world" feel but it is early- VERY early for me to be casting that out there.


-honestly, I can barely deal with what little time I have toget things done in my world.







TEVIN STARGUNNER | WASODO T'GADIE

Rogue | Desperado | Demolitionist Short | Dark | Handsome

Master Smuggler | Master Bounty Hunter | Commando 0400 | Rebel Capt. Smuggler | Teras Kasi Artist | Unaffiliated
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