Smuggler Archive
Thread: Quick summary of Caylin's famous 100 page doc
From what I understand what Caylin is saying is basicly you will get truly better slice's the higher up to and including the master level. It would be a skill based system and not a random based type of system like now. In other world a novice would slice at like 13% to 28% on average and a master would slice between 28 and 41% on avaerage, still through some randoms in there but base it on skill more. BTW before anyone freaks the % i put on this post a pulled out of my bottom and are not anything other then examples, we can let the dev's figure %'s out.
Raanan wrote:
Yimaz, the spices summary was decint. I think it could use a bit of editing to make the meaning a bit more clear but it has the basic concepts. The slicing outline is very well written. There's one thing I personally need clarification on though.
b. The addition of a Slicing Modifier: Slicing would be similar to crafting with experimentation points replaced with slicing points. Scaleable number and types of items to slice based upon skill.
If I'm understanding this correctly, this means when we click the slice option on something, we get the standard expirimentation window to pop up like what I would get if I expiriemented on a weapon while crafting it. We then modify the available attributes using our expirimentation points (renamed to slicing points). Am I understanding this correctly?
If I am, I really like that idea. It removes the idoicy of cutting wires in a wood staff or stone knife.
All in all, clear and concise. Good job and thanks for posting it.
yimaz wrote:
BTW do we want more stuff to slice (i.e. droids speeders yadda, yadda) and if so what are they and what are some ideas on what we can do to them?
Personally, the only thing I'ld like to be able to slice more of and to greater use is terminals. Droids are good enough and there are combat droids coming (eventually). Bikes are already at their maximum velocity in swoops (technical limitations as per the devs) and we've already had the idea of durability slices tossed out by the devs (of questionable usefullness also if they decay faster due to slicing). Bio engis are the pet slicers. I'm not exaclty sure how a person would go about slicing clothing. Tools are good enough to get 99% expirimented items. The only other things I can think of are weapons, armor, containers, and ships. We already get to slice the first 3 and I do believe we get to tinker with our own ships in the se (aside from the custom parts we loot which everyone can do).
That's my take.
yimaz wrote:
From what I understand what Caylin is saying is basicly you will get truly better slice's the higher up to and including the master level. It would be a skill based system and not a random based type of system like now. In other world a novice would slice at like 13% to 28% on average and a master would slice between 28 and 41% on avaerage, still through some randoms in there but base it on skill more. BTW before anyone freaks the % i put on this post a pulled out of my bottom and are not anything other then examples, we can let the dev's figure %'s out.
Raanan wrote:
Yimaz, the spices summary was decint. I think it could use a bit of editing to make the meaning a bit more clear but it has the basic concepts. The slicing outline is very well written. There's one thing I personally need clarification on though.
b. The addition of a Slicing Modifier: Slicing would be similar to crafting with experimentation points replaced with slicing points. Scaleable number and types of items to slice based upon skill.
If I'm understanding this correctly, this means when we click the slice option on something, we get the standard expirimentation window to pop up like what I would get if I expiriemented on a weapon while crafting it. We then modify the available attributes using our expirimentation points (renamed to slicing points). Am I understanding this correctly?
If I am, I really like that idea. It removes the idoicy of cutting wires in a wood staff or stone knife.
All in all, clear and concise. Good job and thanks for posting it.
Ah, sweet. Been a while since I read Caylin's doc so... couldn't remember. I like it though and am all for it.
a.Smuggler vs BountyHunter: The ablity to slice into Bounty Hunter Terminals and remove the names of Jedi. A Smuggler could gain some sort of BH tiff for 15min for doing this.Also ajedi will want to seek out a Smuggler for help (like in the movies). It would create a very cat and mouse type of mini-game and it is still consent based combat.
Personally I prefer the Counterfeit ID approach or something else entirely. I could just see smugglers and BH'ers just standing next to each other at the same terminal, the smuggler has a screw driver and is fiddling with the terminal while the bounty hunter is trying to use it... the smuggler curses about the same time the bounty hunter then looks over at him and smiles while pointing at the screen.
I could see it giving them a way to powerlevel their invest. xp too quickly as well as a bunch of other problems.
b. The addition of a Slicing Modifier: Slicing would be similar to crafting with experimentation points replaced with slicing points. Scaleable number and types of items to slice based upon skill.
We can probably try to rephrase this to make it more clear.
c. Slicing Tool Certifications: Re-cert FAN’s and Clamps to Novice and Slicing 3 respectively for use, not crafting to encourage a FAN economy for up and coming Smugglers and prevent the abuse of using Clamps all the time.
I find this to be pretty important myself...
d. The Smuggler's Personal Weapon: Gives the smuggler the ability to experiment on their own weapon. Slicing it to possibly a broader range of modifications. What can be modified and by how much is dependent on skill level.
no argument.
As for the other things to slice, that can be listed as well here.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
- It has to be 100% consensual for the smuggler. Currently the only two methods for PvP are through theGCW and Duels. I'm aware of Jedi TEF exploiting, but they start out as rebels no matter what and are thus considered GCW participants and PvP willing.
- Getting on the terminals should never be a consequence of progressing up the skill tree in pursuit of mastery.
- It should be something you have to work at. This way it isn't instant and no exploitation of Inv. XP.
- I'll repeat for emphasis, skilling up as a smuggler can not be linked to PvP in any way. Unless of course the player signs a form saying 'Yes you can put my name on BH terminals' when they choose to train in Novice Smuggler.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 05-25-2004 09:19 PM
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
a.Smuggler vs BountyHunter: The ablity to slice into Bounty Hunter Terminals and remove the names of Jedi. A Smuggler could gain some sort of BH tiff for 15min for doing this.Also ajedi will want to seek out a Smuggler for help (like in the movies). It would create a very cat and mouse type of mini-game and it is still consent based combat.
Personally I prefer the Counterfeit ID approach or something else entirely. I could just see smugglers and BH'ers just standing next to each other at the same terminal, the smuggler has a screw driver and is fiddling with the terminal while the bounty hunter is trying to use it... the smuggler curses about the same time the bounty hunter then looks over at him and smiles while pointing at the screen. that is the point!
"ahhh shizot i gotta bail or talk my way out of this, hello Mr Bounty Hunter"
*hauls bottom for the door*
I could see it giving them a way to powerlevel their invest. xp too quickly as well as a bunch of other problems. I dont agree, no BH will wait hours on end in the hopes that a smugglermight happento show up. It would be more of a bad timing type of thing, either they just miss us or werun into them right after our work is done (like waitingfor ashuttle , Teff'd and a BH loads infront of us) to me thats a good time waiting to happen. It will also gives the jedi a reason to seek us out.Keep in mindrebels and Imperialsare doing what you are worried the bounty hunters might do and its the same type of thing. As a mater of factthe best way i can verbalize this idea is that its is the same as the GSW and going overt. When you go overt you expect a fight. It will be the same thing, belly of the beast type of stuff. Its a simple mini-game that you could do or not do, just like the GSW.
But with all that said if more over we feel it should be droped then lets address that, Im cool with what ever most people working on this feel is right however it trulyis one way to resolve the BHvs Smuggler issue. Some people want to be hunted andsome dont. Both sideshave valid points. This systemgive a smuggler the option to go either way.
The other stuff seems to be shaping up nice though...
b. The addition of a Slicing Modifier: Slicing would be similar to crafting with experimentation points replaced with slicing points. Scaleable number and types of items to slice based upon skill.
We can probably try to rephrase this to make it more clear. /agree maybe somthing as simple as:
d. Rather then a slice being a complety random act. Smugglers feelthere Sliceablity should reflectthe skill level. The out come would still be random however a master smuggler on average would recive a higher slice then a non-master.
c. Slicing Tool Certifications: Re-cert FAN’s and Clamps to Novice and Slicing 3 respectively for use, not crafting to encourage a FAN economy for up and coming Smugglers and prevent the abuse of using Clamps all the time.
I find this to be pretty important myself... /agree
d. The Smuggler's Personal Weapon: Gives the smuggler the ability to experiment on their own weapon. Slicing it to possibly a broader range of modifications. What can be modified and by how much is dependent on skill level.
no argument. /agree
As for the other things to slice, that can be listed as well here.
Personally I want to make the spice request more ambitious. I'm so tired of crafting it, it isn't funny. It's also a very limiting skill tree as all it does is craft spice... 
The possibilities can be impressive, it's the change you can make in a name from either saying the 'Spice tree' or the 'Profiteer tree'
Profiteer has so much more of interest in it for me, while 'Spice' is just a one-trick pony.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 05-25-2004 09:45 PM
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Personally I want to make the spice request more ambitious. I'm so tired of crafting it, it isn't funny. It's also a very limiting skill tree as all it does is craft spice...
The possibilities can be impressive, it's the change you can make in a name from either saying the 'Spice tree' or the 'Profiteer tree'
Profiteer has so much more of interest in it for me, while 'Spice' is just a one-trick pony.
yimaz wrote:
Caylin you wont get a argument from me on any of your idea's they are well though out and make sence but look at it in the larger picture, we are only one class of many and as far as smuggler gothose of us on the thread and the minority.There are combat balances coming, a space expantion other profession re-vamps, new dungens,etc, etc... They are not going to re-invent the wheel. If we work our ideas into what is already in-game and keep them simple we have a better shot at geting a few of our idea's added plus if it moves them away from some of the dumb ass idea's ive here they want to push on us. A lot of smuggler like to craft spice (Im not one of them) and I know the dev's will not remove thatfrom the game. Crafting is a core element to their game design.
I think you guys are missing my point. I dont have a strong opinion on any of our options but everyone else does. What you want is not what everyone wants and the same is true in reverse. My point. A middle ground needs to bereached or this is all pointless and we might as well just let the dev's do what they want.
If you feel we need to go back to spice thats fine with me, it just seems like EVERY ONE'Sbasic needs were met with the blending of all 3 idea's and that is what the dev's will look for. Every point of veiw need to be addressed in this revamp that is the one thing about this re-vamp i do have an opinion on.