Smuggler Archive
Thread: Quick summary of Caylin's famous 100 page doc
NickHeel wrote:
My grandpa just said the phrase today: Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Let's give a whirl
there is another phrase that could work just as well and i learned from my grandpa : Its like pizzing in the wind.
I thought we were moving ahead but we are right back where we started, its sad.
There is some email correspondence going on right now between Geevo and a few other smugglers here on these forums, so you could consider that a focus group I believe. It doesn't mean that you have to wait for them though.
yimaz wrote:
We all need to give a little to get a lot. Smuggler please read the slice and spice with an open mind and if you can say "its not exactly what i want but its close, or there is some stuff i wanted in there" then we are on our way.
Come on guys we really need to stop fighting for one point of view or another and blend these idea's into simple easy to follow outlines that the dev's can work on. Remeber the dev's want changes that everyone can enjoy.
A focus group, Caylin??
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
I think Vampirerobot hit the nail on the head in regards to the document. We need t ogive them as amany ideas as we can, and let them decide whats good, what's bad, and what is/isn't doable in the system. It's actually this premise that I did this scaled down version of Caylin's doc to what is posted here. It isn't my version of it, but it is a summary of all the ideas in there. Caylin included as many fleshed out ideas in his doc as he could, and i didn't leave anything out except for SE stuff which TH said he didn't want to see.
Yimaz, you are doing a great job of hitting most of the points, and we are making progress. Consider that we are nearly finished with Slicing, and Spices is already done. It's not a matter of finding what everyone wants and doesn't want, but presenting it all to the devs as valid posibilities and let them decide. We aren't going to be able to pinpoint an entire skill onion complete with everything we want and expect them to publish it. I think we are all aware of that. By presenting them with 6 or 7 ideas for 1 tree, and let them incorporate it into their plans will work the most in our favor, and we should see the most done this way.
The idea of the focus group was that Geevo wanted to work on the doc and present a rough draft for the community to rip apart, other people (myself included) wanted to help and so we instead started a small email group to help Geevo with the rough draft. unfortunately it hasn't been completed yet. It is not meant to bring you your community doc as gospel from the mountains, inscribed on 2 stones carried by Geevo clad in rags and bearded. At least thatwas myunderstanding.
Doing what we are doing here is exactly what we should be doing, this thread has the most progress so far, i think. So let's keep it up! 
Also, I would like to add that I believe the ideas behind the slicing experimantation still involve an amount of randomness. At least, that's what I thought. If it doesn't, then I know that I have read a post that invloves both. I think that is doable.
Even if we have skill sets that tie in with each other, we should still present them, you never know what the devs will see and like. They may be able to work things into their plans too.
-Arashi
Bloodfin
How would we keep it read only then? Its not a big secret and its only a few people, but everyone has an idea of what they want and what is important and having 3000 people chime in at once doesn't help things if it is a 'focus' group now does it?
Vampirerobot wrote:
the problem with that is that it's not taking place on the forums, so it's closed off to the community at large. which means it's not really accomplishing the goal of it being a "community revamp document".
WesBelden wrote:
I completely agree andreally like the way you handle, bar the fact that you would still have to mass produce it yourself. Why would a smuggler mass produce spice? it's surely their roll first and foremost to smuggle it, not produce it in anyway? Would it not be better for these factional factories to produce the order for you? or am I being naive and missing something vital here?
I wanted to do it that way, but I had to look at alot of things. What do we need to mass produce spice right now...
- Crafting Kit
- Crafting Station
- Various Resources
- Factory
- Time
Now if we were to have those factional factories do everything for us, it takes away alot of the interdepence that we have with other professions in order to produce spice.
Even with my method we would no longer buy resources, which many people mine and sell... The factory is another part that we needed, that architects I'm sure wouldn't be too pleased if smugglers no longer needed them in order to mass produce something...
There is more to it, but I wanted to give a few basics. I want to include as much interedependence as I can, but still not feel like I'm directly crafting it if possible.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
WesBelden wrote:
I completely agree andreally like the way you handle, bar the fact that you would still have to mass produce it yourself. Why would a smuggler mass produce spice? it's surely their roll first and foremost to smuggle it, not produce it in anyway? Would it not be better for these factional factories to produce the order for you? or am I being naive and missing something vital here?
I wanted to do it that way, but I had to look at alot of things. What do we need to mass produce spice right now...
- Crafting Kit
- Crafting Station
- Various Resources
- Factory
- Time
Now if we were to have those factional factories do everything for us, it takes away alot of the interdepence that we have with other professions in order to produce spice.
Even with my method we would no longer buy resources, which many people mine and sell... The factory is another part that we needed, that architects I'm sure wouldn't be too pleased if smugglers no longer needed them in order to mass produce something...
There is more to it, but I wanted to give a few basics. I want to include as much interedependence as I can, but still not feel like I'm directly crafting it if possible.
I guess that makes sense :/, I'm aware of the need for the whole community to be linked to each other via the economy, both requiring something to be able to perform the service and being paid for the actual service/product. Guess I conveniently forgot that for this matter given my desires to see something more smuggler esq.
Having thought about it though (I don't mean to be a pest or cling to something after being proven wrong, just bouncing the idea off of your superior experience and game knowledge 
), would it not be more Smuggler like if we transport the resources to the factioned factory, especially if the resources required are listed as contraband? That way resources would be required (and those paying for/receiving the spice at the end of this could indeed be the ones that provide the resources) and we'd still be linked in the chain; we wouldn't be making anything andwe'd be smuggling all the way.
Caylin,
Can you put together an easy to follow simple one liner type of thing for spice only so we can take a look at it. I would like to see the over all re-vamp for spice so I can understand the full vision you have for the system. Also if the dev team has no interest in your spice rebuild what are your ideas on a back up (if any) plan?
Oh and as for Spices:
I think the answer here is to have some Spices remain crafted, and have others obtainable through missions.
Story-wise this makes a lot of sense, because many of the Spices we currently have are described as being derivatives from existing chemicals, meds or natural products. However new Spices can be introduced that can't really be produced by a single person (but are "mined by slaves" like Spices from Kessel are supposedly) and instead are simply "delivered" by the Smuggler.
This way we open the door for Spices via missions, but retain the simplicity of crafting for basic spices. To be honest I don't see why I would need to run a mission to get the "Droid Lubricant" spice as opposed to harvesting it from a Droid Motivator or something like that. But I never understood why Neutron Pixie, a spice of "alien origin" can be crafted with stuff I find on any planet.
The answer is to change some of the spices to Mission obtained, add some new Mission obtained spices, and keep some of the old ones as crafted (but revamp their effects).