Smuggler Archive
Thread: Finally a change smugglers want!!
SmugglinZane wrote:
I agree, but you still have the fact that this only applies to faction players. A faction player doesn't need a Smuggler to get it through, he only needs to get a Civilian and pay his fine, plus a few creds. Furthermore, a neutral Smuggler would never be used to help get a factioned player through a starport or scan team because if shooting started, the neutral wouldn't be able to help.
Smugglers are no more needed with these changes IMO, and at best it creates a situation where being a Smuggler without a faction is even more meaningless.
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
Ternque01 wrote:
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
IndySWG wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
Did you recently drink something a DEV gave you?
No, it's called optimism, something a few of the people around here should start looking into. Resisting these changes based on the view that the devs would never ammend them is the most foolish thing I can think of. I just hope the devs implement this plan ASAP.
Pessimism ultimately ends in a negative outcome, even though it can be useful for certain positive means.
Ternque01 wrote:
IndySWG wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
Did you recently drink something a DEV gave you?
No, it's called optimism, something a few of the people around here should start looking into. Resisting these changes based on the view that the devs would never ammend them is the most foolish thing I can think of. I just hope the devs implement this plan ASAP.
Pessimism ultimately ends in a negative outcome, even though it can be useful for certain positive means.
Ternque01 wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
I agree, but you still have the fact that this only applies to faction players. A faction player doesn't need a Smuggler to get it through, he only needs to get a Civilian and pay his fine, plus a few creds. Furthermore, a neutral Smuggler would never be used to help get a factioned player through a starport or scan team because if shooting started, the neutral wouldn't be able to help.
Smugglers are no more needed with these changes IMO, and at best it creates a situation where being a Smuggler without a faction is even more meaningless.
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
But why not support a small tweak now? A small addition of faction point loss for neutrals when you fail a scan will put everyone closer to being in the same boat. Remember, these neutral factions are scanning for contraband, and attacking if you fail and are a member of an opposing faction. Why not add faction point loss for neutrals so that they become progressively more harrassed?
Ternque01 wrote:
IndySWG wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Well I wouldn't sweat it man. All they have to do is tweak the system to make it adapt to whatever smuggling system they design.
They changed the Crackdown after it got implemented. They are changing it again now. They will surely tweak it again, so I wouldn't worry or hold any thoughts about it.
Did you recently drink something a DEV gave you?
No, it's called optimism, something a few of the people around here should start looking into. Resisting these changes based on the view that the devs would never ammend them is the most foolish thing I can think of. I just hope the devs implement this plan ASAP.
Pessimism ultimately ends in a negative outcome, even though it can be useful for certain positive means.
No offense Axob, but it's not optimism, it being content.You said yourself that you've been waiting for this change. I don't begrudge you that at all, but this is nothing if not worse for a big bunch of us.
Yes, some of us are very pessimistic, with past track records as our motivation. I am more than pessimistic. I am almost angry at this point. My concerns earlier this week were dismissed by the Devs without even addressing them. They posted nothing other than "It's a war, pick a side." Now they're involving forces outside of the GCW, so I say poo on them and their justification. They were wrong not to have an opt in system for PvP for neutral players earlier in the week, and they're even more wrong not to have some way of neutrals being attacked by neutral factions now.
Sorry, what I'm working is fueling my pessimism, but my motivation is more than just an outlook at this point.
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Ternque01 wrote:
...{snip}... Resisting these changes based on the view that the devs would never ammend them is ..{snip}...
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And by the way, stop putting words in my mouth! Voicing concerns DOES NOT equal resisting change. NO WHERE have I suggested this change shouldnt go in place.
I'm not resisting the change, I'm begging and pleading for certain parts of it to get fleshed out a bit more. It's called feedback/suggestions/voicing concerns ... that is the entire point of the in concepts and in development boards.
Scolding someone for doing that is counter productive to the progress we all want.
Calling them pessimists because they are shocked or alarmed when DEVs post things which seem to be mutually exclusive or seems (given limited details) to hinder some other part of the game is just ... well it doesn't make any sense.
I appreciate your view that the proposed change is perfect in every way right off the drawing board ... but not everyone believes that. Some of us others think that there are a few things which might do well with a little more thought. For those of us who have concerns and would like them addressed ... please remember that is why we have this time before it goes live; to discuss them and ask (and demand if needed) for clarification that we might offer some helpful feedback for a more robust and comprehensive addition to the game.
Am I pesimistic ... perhaps ... but I'm optomisitic enough to think that posting concerns here isn't completely futile ... and this is what the DEVs have asked for.
Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 01:52 PM
SpinningCloud wrote:
ARGGGG....
We're mostly ALL Master Smugglers, we don't get caught now and we won't be getting caught after this change.
This makes scans somewhat more annoying to the non-smugglers but what EXACTLY does it do for US?
We're NOT going to be hired to tag around the place with other players JUST so they don't get caught....not until the scans are at consistant and important spots like starports.
So WHAT does this do for us? Please, spell it out for me, HOW do I benefit from this?
Exact!!!! what will change 4 us????
PS: @LaughingWolf, ehm I'm Master Smuggler since Feb.2004 and until now i didn't know that some1 groupped with a Smuggler will have chance to avoid scans, i thougt only the smuggler itself. I didn't knew that because never ever some1 asked me to group with him to pass a scan controle. And this lead me to the post from @SpinningCloud: What will change to us? as i heared not in all Citys will be scans... and the question is where? in the city entrances? in the front of a Starport?? and an other thing many here are happy that Dark and light jedi will be attacked by imps....They are happy because they think the jedis will hier us to avoid the scans.... I say False it will never happen because:
1- 80% of jedi are Smuggler (to use FD) so they have also they chance to avoid scans
2- Jedi have Force Persuation, they can use the Force to avoid Scans (it's ingame since pub9 )
3- The jedi are player with "God cheat" enabled, so they can easely kill all the scan Team....
IndySWG wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
The change you guys want is something that might indeed need looking into. Musing on this idea, I think that neutrals still WILL be able to shoot at the neutral scan teams. These are just neutral police who happen to be more friendly to the faction occupying their city.
This isnt my concern. My concern is the DEV statement that nuetral would never be attacked thanks toa scan. I want to know what happens when a nuetral decides not to stop for the scan as ordered. The officer just has to wave good bye and wonder what his badge is for? I want to know what happens when they fail a scan to make them wish they hadn't.
Even in Star Wars, I can barely see local police opening fire on normal citizens for possessing contraband like sliced guns or spices. It makes much more sense to only open fire to keep the peace (i.e. break up a fight somewhere) or if an enemy of the state is detected (i.e. enemies in a time of war.. kinda like a Taliban member in the U.S. with a live thermonuclear weapon).
I officially don't think it is appropriate for local police to fire on civilians unless they are fired upon first, unless it is a dangerous repeat offender, or unless the quantity of or level of illegality of the contraband found is sufficient into panicking the police into opening fire or calling in TOUGH reinforcements to do it also. If a player was punished for possessing alot of contraband or something very highly illegal like Jedi will be punished for being discovered, then this seems like the PERFECT system.
Because they have included neutral scan teams, this gives them a VERY flexible base from which to persecute players of ANY affiliation (including neutral) for possession of contraband, and gives them a flexible base from which to make easy changes to adjust the way neutrals are treated. Their system seems able to cater to neutrals is what I'm saying.
Yes that's true, but I dont see why we cannot use it. The TEF system was removed so that players can enteract with NPC game elements without fear of Player griefing. Why then are we trying to protect players from NPC game elements? (They will no longer TEF the player an open them to PvP afterall).
Again, I just don't think firing on a normal citizen is appropriate. Theselocal police are civil servants after all.
This is a STAR WARS GAME ... players shouldnt have to be protected from the horrible idea of interacting with NPC Game elements....otherwise its just a graphically rich chat room.
You are right, but I think that neutrals should be fired upon when they reach the same danger level to local cops as an enemy militarytroop would be to them. Perhaps being a repeat offender might raise a player's threat level. Perhaps possessing VERY dangerous contraband would. Perhaps the quantity of contraband carried would do that as well.
It just doesn't fit quite right to fire on normal citizens for possessing small amounts of contraband.
Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 02:51 PM
(I'm in green)
(and in red - older post)
Ternque01 wrote:
IndySWG wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
The change you guys want is something that might indeed need looking into. Musing on this idea, I think that neutrals still WILL be able to shoot at the neutral scan teams. These are just neutral police who happen to be more friendly to the faction occupying their city.
This isnt my concern. My concern is the DEV statement that nuetral would never be attacked thanks toa scan. I want to know what happens when a nuetral decides not to stop for the scan as ordered. The officer just has to wave good bye and wonder what his badge is for? I want to know what happens when they fail a scan to make them wish they hadn't.
Even in Star Wars, I can barely see local police opening fire on normal citizens for possessing contraband like sliced guns or spices.
I'm not suggesting this necissarily, but even in OUR would (let alone one with an evil sith emporer and storm troopers) if a cop yells "Freeze" and you don't ... he may shoot you.
I want the DEVs to specifically spell out what happens for each type of player when:
- they are found to be carying contraband (a fine, loss of faction ...but which faction? police-faction or controlling-party-faction?)
- if they do not submit to the search in the first place and just run away ... this is Star Wars...the cop should shoot them dead in this case. :smileytongue:
Yes that's true, but I dont see why we cannot use it. The TEF system was removed so that players can enteract with NPC game elements without fear of Player griefing. Why then are we trying to protect players from NPC game elements? (They will no longer TEF the player an open them to PvP afterall).
(repeated to justify the bullet point above)
Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 02:51 PM
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
|Player Type | Chance of evade when | Chance of evade when | Consiquence if | Consiquence if Player |
| | Scanned by Imps | Scanned by Rebs | contraband found | does not comply with scan |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Nuetral | | | | |
| | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Imperial | | | | |
|(high rank) | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Rebel | | | | |
|(high rank) | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Imperial | | | | |
| (on leave) | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Rebel | | | | |
| (on leave) | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Light Jedi | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
| Dark Jedi | | | | |
+--------------+----------------------------+----------------------------+---------------------+-----------------------------+
since we seem to both be bombarding him with our replies..
IndySWG wrote:
There is a difference between pessimism and voicing reasonable concerns based on past history as to how things are implemented in SWG.
I have been in this for 2 years now. I was in it in beta. I have a very good idea of how things work, and I'm not being a pessimist I'm asking a simple question that so far has not been answered by the DEVs - and given their track record I would simply like to know they CAN answer it before they shove it into live. (And yes they do have a track record of leaving things broken for YEARS ... ever heard of the smuggler profession?)
I have been the optimist for too long...I'm tired. If your not, great but the only thing more foolish than being reasonably concerned about 2 years of proven track record ... is blindly ignoring it on faith its' not going to continue.
I'm all for optimism ... I was the optimist back when they pulled our revamp (again) the last time. I was the one in the angry threads trying to calm everyone one down. I posted a glowing post only days ago praising the DEVs, and have said that in general I really like the occupation idea.
I just want them to give the details that so far they have not, as there ARE things worthy of reasonable concern ... and if they cannot reasonably address them before it hits live ... I promise you the track record will continue.