Smuggler Archive

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IndySWG wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:
...{snip}... Resisting these changes based on the view that the devs would never ammend them is ..{snip}...
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And by the way, stop putting words in my mouth! Voicing concerns DOES NOT equal resisting change. NO WHERE have I suggested this change shouldnt go in place.

I'm not resisting the change, I'm begging and pleading for certain parts of it to get fleshed out a bit more. It's called feedback/suggestions/voicing concerns ... that is the entire point of the in concepts and in development boards.

Scolding someone for doing that is counter productive to the progress we all want.

Calling them pessimists because they are shocked or alarmed when DEVs post things which seem to be mutually exclusive or seems (given limited details) to hinder some other part of the game is just ... well it doesn't make any sense.

I appreciate your view that the proposed change is perfect in every way right off the drawing board ... but not everyone believes that. Some of us others think that there are a few things which might do well with a little more thought. For those of us who have concerns and would like them addressed ... please remember that is why we have this time before it goes live; to discuss them and ask (and demand if needed) for clarification that we might offer some helpful feedback for a more robust and comprehensive addition to the game.

Am I pesimistic ... perhaps ... but I'm optomisitic enough to think that posting concerns here isn't completely futile ... and this is what the DEVs have asked for.

Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 01:52 PM

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You are right. You guys have picked up the ball, who am I to say you look stupid running with it, hehehe (this is a joke )

The change you guys want is something that might indeed need looking into. Musing on this idea, I think that neutrals still WILL be able to shoot at the neutral scan teams. These are just neutral police who happen to be more friendly to the faction occupying their city. If a neutral player thinks they are "above the law" like Steven Seagal or something, they better go on a diet like him because unless they blow the hell out of the scanning officers, they are a subject to the law.

I think this has a decent psychological impact. Any neutral player too cocky to feel like the law influences them WILL get a fight, and even if they submit and ignore what is going on, they still take the subconscious mindset that they are under the law... especially as time goes on...

Perhaps this is why I am not so worked over this detail in their plan. I do see why you guys would be, and you guys HAVE noted that weakness in their system, but this is more of a GCW change, but I am impressed enough alone with the fact that they have included neutral scan teams into the picture... very very amazed.

Because they have included neutral scan teams, this gives them a VERY flexible base from which to persecute players of ANY affiliation (including neutral) for possession of contraband, and gives them a flexible base from which to make easy changes to adjust the way neutrals are treated. Their system seems able to cater to neutrals is what I'm saying.

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Ternque01 wrote:

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IndySWG wrote:

There is a difference between pessimism and voicing reasonable concerns based on past history as to how things are implemented in SWG.

I have been in this for 2 years now. I was in it in beta. I have a very good idea of how things work, and I'm not being a pessimist I'm asking a simple question that so far has not been answered by the DEVs - and given their track record I would simply like to know they CAN answer it before they shove it into live. (And yes they do have a track record of leaving things broken for YEARS ... ever heard of the smuggler profession?)

I have been the optimist for too long...I'm tired. If your not, great but the only thing more foolish than being reasonably concerned about 2 years of proven track record ... is blindly ignoring it on faith its' not going to continue.

I'm all for optimism ... I was the optimist back when they pulled our revamp (again) the last time. I was the one in the angry threads trying to calm everyone one down. I posted a glowing post only days ago praising the DEVs, and have said that in general I really like the occupation idea.

I just want them to give the details that so far they have not, as there ARE things worthy of reasonable concern ... and if they cannot reasonably address them before it hits live ... I promise you the track record will continue.

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It is clear to me that some of you feel you won't get the change done without raising a "stink".

You seem to have an overly zealus opinion as to what a "stink" is. If posting things like "What?! Why would you doX instead of Y?" is a stink then get outthe gas masks. And I'm not kidding myself to think we'll get a change even with a stink, but that doesnt mean I cannot ask for it and eagerly state why I think it's important.

It's a crude technique, but to Zane, Indy, etc. who want to use it, go right ahead.

I have never in all my days been ... "crude" I have been adament, and perhaps melo-dramatic but never crude. /sticks_nose_in_air. All that being said, it is a crude technique ... but again you have an overly zealus idea of what falls into that technique.

It is very clear that you all have valid worries about the plan the devs are going to put in, and I would like to see them done too. In honesty, I think that neutrals will be punished on the light side and could use an increase in degree, but it isn't a big problem to fix.

Then stop calling us "foolish" for voicing them and "crude" for being vocal about them!

Can I ask one thing, because it is important to me? I really, really, really like the changes going in. Can you guys and gals at least show some degree of support for them aside from the gripes that you have with it? I really don't want the devs to get the impression that the players don't like their plan as a whole to the point that a community would raise a stink over it. I would like them to get the feel that the changes are awesome, but one small part of it needs alot of attention for an obvious quick and easy-to-fix solution. Thanks.

My first post to the occupation thread was

"WooooOOOO HOOO!!!! "

I'll make you a deal, I will include at least one thing I like about the changes in each "gripe" (aka concern) I have if you agree to list one concern you have with each "blind-fan-boy" (aka praise) you post (and agree to stop calling me foolish and crude.

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Honestly I do like the changes detailed overall. But my wanting certain things fleshed out does not make me a crude whiner any more than your praise makes you a blind fan-boy. Lets stop drawing these lines in the sand and get back on topic...the change.

Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 02:56 PM

Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 03:46 PM

Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 04:00 PM

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Ternque01 wrote:

The change you guys want is something that might indeed need looking into. Musing on this idea, I think that neutrals still WILL be able to shoot at the neutral scan teams. These are just neutral police who happen to be more friendly to the faction occupying their city.

This isnt my concern. My concern is the DEV statement that nuetral would never be attacked thanks toa scan. I want to know what happens when a nuetral decides not to stop for the scan as ordered. The officer just has to wave good bye and wonder what his badge is for? I want to know what happens when they fail a scan to make them wish they hadn't.

Because they have included neutral scan teams, this gives them a VERY flexible base from which to persecute players of ANY affiliation (including neutral) for possession of contraband, and gives them a flexible base from which to make easy changes to adjust the way neutrals are treated. Their system seems able to cater to neutrals is what I'm saying.

Yes that's true, but I dont see why we cannot use it. The TEF system was removed so that players can enteract with NPC game elements without fear of Player griefing. Why then are we trying to protect players from NPC game elements? (They will no longer TEF the player an open them to PvP afterall).

This is a STAR WARS GAME ... players shouldnt have to be protected from the horrible idea of interacting with NPC Game elements....otherwise its just a graphically rich chat room.

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Message Edited by IndySWG on 02-09-2005 02:51 PM

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SmugglinZane wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:

/bump so that everyone can see the AMAZING junk happening to the game!!!

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You guys might want to take a look at the dev tracker so you can see what is now going to happen with Pilots now.

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Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of neutrals who are not happy about that change right now.

But on the other hand - if you're neutral and want to wear that spiffy Rebel jacket - then well, Imperials may just "assume" you're rebel.

Still debating the pros/cons of that one right now though but I'm 60/40 Pro right now.

Message Edited by Ternque01 on 02-10-2005 11:14 AM

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Daturaze wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of neutrals who are not happy about that change right now.

But on the other hand - if you're neutral and want to wear that spiffy Rebel jacket - then well, Imperials may just "assume" you're rebel.

Still debating the pros/cons of that one right now though but I'm 60/40 Pro right now.

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Yeah, my buddy is a little upset right now. We were going to do his vette mission tonight, but he's really not sure he wants to be a Reb pilot anymore.

Not sure if you saw my response, but I asked what the deal was.

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Ternque01 wrote:

SOE has balls!!! It is rediculous to fly for the Rebellion, yet avoid all of the riff raff on the ground.

Neutral ground/Rebel space dude: Man!!! Did you see those Imperial cruisers I hit go up into flames??? That was awesome!!!!

Imperial ground dude who looks sad: WTH???? My BROTHER was in that ship!!!! You just breathed your last breath Rebel!!!! Oh, wait... you are only a Rebel in space... my bad... *goes back to looking sad.....*

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I'm not saying there is a problem with it, but it least it lent some credibility to the mercenary types. Also, Faction ships are all targetable by neutrals, so I'd love for them to come after me for blowing them up.

Just pointing out that there's a little mix up with what people thought was going on what, not even 6 months ago.

Regardless, it is kind of funny.

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SmugglinZane wrote:

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Daturaze wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of neutrals who are not happy about that change right now.

But on the other hand - if you're neutral and want to wear that spiffy Rebel jacket - then well, Imperials may just "assume" you're rebel.

Still debating the pros/cons of that one right now though but I'm 60/40 Pro right now.

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Yeah, my buddy is a little upset right now. We were going to do his vette mission tonight, but he's really not sure he wants to be a Reb pilot anymore.

Not sure if you saw my response, but I asked what the deal was.

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