Smuggler Archive
Thread: Just waxing intellectual on the future of SWG...what's YOUR opinion?
Aendracon wrote:
Graxul wrote:
In my opinion the only profession that should be balanced against a true actual star wars jedi would be another jedi.
I have to disagree.
Why are Jedi considered to be the epitome of characters in this game anyway? This is supposed to be Episode IV - V. The mightiest "Jedi" alive is Luke Skywalker, whom Han could have defeated with one hand tied to hisback any time. Even in Episode VI, he wasn´t really a match for Boba Fett.
So, if we want to assume some Jedi did survive the purge at the end of Episode III, they would have to be rather weak or else the Empire would have taken an effort to eliminate them.
My point: if we must have Jedi in this game (which I don´t mind as long as they are not a nuisance) why on earth do they have to be the strongest playable profession in the first place? If they are as common (or even the most common) profession these days, why not just make them a regular profession? A swordmaster with a glowstick, if you like? Was Luke a one man army?
Its really simple - as long as Jedi are the alpha and the omega of this game, everyone is tempted to become one. But if they are just one profession among many, only people liking the Jedi flavor would go for them. We don´t even need a nerv bat or a purge - just raise the other professions to their level.
And for the love ofgod - why do (only) Jedi get a second character slot on top? Isn´t there enough icying on the cake already?
During that time period Luke isn't a jedi yet at best force sensitive in a new hope and maybe a padawan during empire strikes back. However, my personal opinion is that the game would have been better if we could only become force sensitive and not Jedi..since in the current time frame even Luke was a force sensitive and Yoda is still in hiding on Dagobah. But hindsight is 20/20 and we can't go back now since the proverbial pandora's box has been opened.
I like the idea of making more "alpha classes" but that won't happen unless its in an expansion and we still haven't fixed the current professions (jedi included)yet let alone make new ones. If Jedi are to stay in game as they are now in their current design then yes I do agree that a level 80 jedi should be more in balance with a level 80 player with two professions. One could interpret that Jedi are supposed to be weaker than a level 80 player with two non jedi professions since the devs stated that Jedi are supposed to be 1.5x stronger than a regular (non jedi) profession...note the singular state of profession in that statement. So linguistically you could translate that as meaning that a jedi is as strong as a player with 1 proffession mastered and halfway through another like 2222 or something. But that is if you take everything the devs write as being literal and gospel which as most of us smugglers don't anymore unless they see what they say in implementation. What a Dev says and what a Dev does is completely different.
However, you and I both know nerfing down Jedi to the level of non jedi won't happen...unless of course they take out the ability of bounty hunters hunting down jedi, remove FRS, remove xp loss on death from bounty hunters(would obviously occur if bounty hunting jedi were removed completely). This would then trivialize being Jedi further other than the novelty of just being a Jedi. Maybe they'll do that, but how many subscriptions could be lost in doing so? To a non jedi this solution seems promissing but to a Jedi it just lets you be a jedi by name and takes a lot of the "special feel" out...which one could argue was removed when jedi no longer were rare.
By segregating Jedi in their own tier of overtness above special forces and not allowing jedi (or anyone else in that tier) to heal, buff, rez(rez arm) anyone not in that tier of overtness of their faction, then non jedi wouldn't have to fear being ganked by jedi in PvP unless they choose to by going to that tier of overtness also. But that still leaves the problems of jedi camping elite mob spawns and other high end content and leaving non jedi out of that content unless they group with jedi to get it.
Hard to say what will happen.
/agree
one point though: how special can a member of the largest professionbe?
In other words, am I supposed to be "content" for Jedi players? A funny little addition to generate SW flavor and make the Jedi feel special?
"Oh look, someone with a pistol. And not even wearing armor? lol, what a n00b"
Seriously, seing that money is the sole consideration for SOE:
As a non Jedi Ipay for 2 accounts to have 2 characters. If I were a Jedi, I would only need one. So yes, I pay double the monthly fee of a Jedi player, making me (non Jedi in general) twice as valuable a customer. Ah, never mind, go ahead and give the spoiled ones a little bit more love. I´ll just grind to FS and transfer the second character to my free slot. One more useless Jedi in this game.
Think about it...
It is human nature to always want to be the best , uberest , strongest , richest , fastest , unfortunately , etc , even more so for somebody below the age of 20 who is at the mercy of their hormones , none of the current state of this game is the devs fault , or anybodies fault for that matter , it is in this current state because marketing companies and overpaid consultantsdo surveys etc and tell soe that people who buy this game only (or mostly)want to be jedi and bhs' ( cos theyre coolest), and attain the top ranks easily , soe cave in to this because they dont want to upset the customers .
Im not havin a go here , but if you were in a business to make money would you ..................
a , if you were soe and a highly rated marketing consultancy company said , "go heavy on the jedi an bhs , an just about keep the rest of em happy , you'll make more money that way"
or
b , no we''ll stick to our principals , we cant let the fans down an those that want to work at their skills over time an earn them , we'll make the uberest skill types rare to retain their mystique , an so have a deep fulfilling game experience , were not in this for shallow fotm money making reasons.
of course theyre gonna go forA arent they , jedi an bhs are always gonna fotm cos theyre the uber characters most young players wanna be and their big in the recent films , so will attract and make a lotta cash ,
it would be nice to have a deep grown up fulfilling canon version of this game , it would be great , it would die because it would be to deep and " boring 2 to the younger players" , and so would not have a big enough subscription to survive , its not about giving us what we want , its about making money , if all of a sudden all 15 to 25 yr olds wanted to be dancers and mayors tomorrow , the marketing peeps would sell that to soe and the direction of the game would go that way , s'what its all about , the jedi and bhs' wont disapear or become harder and rarer as they should be because most of the uber ive got 5 alts player base pay and play as these type of characters , swg is jus the latest mmorpg theyre playin and after theyve got every badge , gun 50000 billion creds , 5 jedi and 6 pikeman alts , dona all the bunkers etc , theyll move on , an do the same in the next game , like I said at the start , bare bones shallow human nature , the I want an I win button , will always win over the patience , work hard for it deep content types.
Money will always be the desicion maker unfortunatley.
AngusMacGregor wrote:
I have seen the future of SWG.... and it is grim.
If things keep heading in the direction that they currently are, I'll have to finally let go of this game.
Maybe I'll try that Star Trek MMO that I heard is being worked on...
/suppresses laughter
AngusMacGregor wrote:
I wonder how hard I'll have to grind to become an ub3r Vulcan.
Despite how well written this thread is i fear it falls on death ears, like so many things have in the past.
I have a jedi and i rarely use her because their doesnt seem to be a point to use her, the only content provided for my jedi is the padawan trials after that i get rewarded by slaughtering 100000's of little creatures till i will be able to start to slaughter loads of players and then what?
Jedi was poorly implemented and needed to be added as a rp profession and needed to be rarely seen so the new players are able to get the mystique i got when i saw my first jedi now im sick to death of seeing them every where i go. Jedi need to be given a reason not to go out and duel round Theed and they need to be removed from the GCW for the overall health of the game.
The sad facts are that while the devs have been attempting (and not doing a good job at it) to implement jedi into this game other professions have been neglected into almost extinction and has created resentment throughout all the forums boards as those who dont want jedi are being neglected while most of those who are jedi whine louder than any other part of the community asking for the "i win button" everytime someone manages to beat them.
Everytime someone manges to find a tactic which works against the latest fotm jedi template the cry in the jedi forum for that move to be nerf'ed is overwhelming and inevitably the move gets effected and jedi are back to being a god class.
The problem now is that while the devs have been working on jedi a lot of the people playing the other professions have worked out this is not the game for them and have moved on leaving 2 types of players the loyal fans the the powergamers, from a dev standpoint the loyal fans are suckers and will stay to play regardless of how bad they make their choosen profession and the powergamers will stay as long as they can "pwn teh noob" so they can feel better about themselves.
Im sad to say it i fall under the star wars fan section so im one of those who will be neglected, i wanted to be a smuggler and i still want to be a smuggler im just a smuggler in name only as we wait for the promised smuggler missions which i think when they do surface they wont be much to look at.
When i went to see episode 3 i was one of the few cheering while i watched all the glowbat wielding muppets got a good spanking by the clone trooper, even the sound of a lightsaber annoysme now, i can remember watching the first film as a kid and thinking jedi was coolthis game has let people like myself down in favour of the worst type of player that online games spawn powergamer.
Alot of jedi are powergamers, like it or not its true, and the nature of powergamers in thistype of game are to achieve the most power at any cost, withhold content from other players and forcing the price of these things up, beat players using game mechanics or through exploits, consume every life out of the game and then move on with the game in ruin.
The game seems to favour the powergaming mentality over the mentality of the players who want to enjoy the gameand im sad to say most of the good jedi out there, at least on my friends list, have left the game now.
The CU did bring balance to every profession with the exception of jedi and having even 1 and only 1 unbalanced profession is enough to cause serious problems ina MMORPG, before theCU the jedi caused big issues in pvp now they cause big problems in both pvp and pve. Since everything is scaled to the dificulty level of jedi alot of the pve parts of the game requires me to take several jedi with me to complete it, if tried things like dwb with a full team working well together and been unable to get through the first room yet ive also tried it with 3 jedi and3 other professions and could easily travel through this place.
Analpha class in a MMORPG throw's all other classes out of the window and ruins both pvp and pve unfortunatly as much sense as a lot of what this thread has in it i suspect no one is listening when i see the things that the devs say in interviews i cant help but feel they are so far removed from the reality of what is happening in game as is possible.
Well, meaby instead of SWG, they will rename it KOTOR.
MISTagent01 wrote:
First, I don't want this to turn into a flaming post, so please keep the fighting out of here.
So...I've been thinking a lot about the recent turn of events in this game. The CU, the patches we've recieved as a whole, and every other thing that we've seen changed since launch.
The developers made a decent point about why the CU needed to happen. It was "because the game couldn't go on the way it was going forever. DoT weapons and uber armor were making PvP completely pointless..." and so on. They have also admitted to "looking the other way" about the number of Jedi (this was a LucasArts rep at Fan Fest) and that they want the game to be "more fun" for everybody.
We've also seen the number of Jedi grow exponentially over time, for two fundamental reasons:
- One side are the people that truly desire to be a Jedi because they feel that's the profession they belong to;
- The other side are PvPers that see Jedi as just the next step in the evolution of their character's toon.
So my question is this: What happens when everyone becomes a Jedi? What happens when everyone that loves their profession so much finally gives up when they realize that they're not getting content, but it's being taken away from them? What happens when everyone that wants to participate in the GCW can't unless they have a Jedi? When will we see a 'regular'profession become totally extinct (as so many seem to be currently?)
If everyone finally becomes a Jedi, and then makes their alt the profession that's truly in their heart...aren't we back at square one? Wouldn't it have been better to have never had Jedi? Whatare the development team and LucasArts thinking by making changes to Jedi that allow them to level up easier? Where do they see the future of SWG, if this is their plan?
If the CU was a fix for the combat system because management didn't believe that SWG could have survived in that model....I'm terrified to see where they see it going now.
So SOE, LucasArts...I'm asking you:
Where do you plan on taking this game as a whole with the current production cycle of makingcertain professions"more fun" and "easier to play," while taking away professions like Entertainers'usefulness (because it isn't "fun" to heal BF, or it's not "exciting" togo into a cantina and sit down/talk to someone that's not AFK)? Where do you draw the line on making the game "fun" for certain professions, but removing other professions' content and happiness?
Sorry if I seem like I'm ranting, I've just been really thinking about this the last week or so, and the advent of Patch 20 kind of pushed me over the edge.
Message Edited by MISTagent01 on 07-06-2005 01:26 PM
at this moment in time i am totaly disgusted by this game. The faveroutism towards certain proffs and the ignorance towards others and you know which ones i mean. I took a long hard think about the game and where its come from over the past 2 years and 1 common flaw kept rearing its ugly head, disapointment. Lets go back to before launch.
We're told the game will come out and we can fly in space and do space missions. Much rejoicing.
Later soe deciede that since space isnt finished to the standard they want that they will hold it back for a year.
Game comes out with no player citys, no mounts and no vehicles these are added later. When they do come out the novality whares off after a month or so. Creation of player citys sees the starting citys (especially Mos Eisley) become ghost towns.
Also at this time Smuggler is promised some love.........i'm still waiting...
The Jedi hologrind begins bringing with it thousands of players across all servers striving to get jedi
Devs then push back smuggler revamp and bring out 2 jedi publishes back to back......wth
Skip forward to....
SPACE THE FINAL FRONTIER....er sorry wrong game lol...but. At first space is awesome, i personaly loved it BUT after 4 weeks i had mastered pilot and after another month my reasons for going into space all but dried up.
COMBAT UPGRADE AND ROTW are released. Now i like the cu changes but kashyyk is foul, seriously. I havent been there in months because of the lag. A shame because the quests are cool and it was a nice direction let down by lag.
Slicing upgrade. All top slicing components are now looted from mobs of an insanley high cl thus cutting out many smugglers from the slicing market.
oh and my last.
Jedi get yet more love to make it easier to level WTH
at EVERY stage of these major milestones i have eventualy felt disapointed. I only carry on playing to hopefuly see that when smuggler missions come out they nail it on the head and it keeps me playing. But its not just Smugglers that get pooped on. Rangers, Ents, Commando, Squad Leaders, all are neglected in favour of a proffesion that in theory and in STAR WARS LORE are all but EXTINCT. Seriousley if i were Lucas id be sueing the buggers for all there worth. SOE were handed pure GOLD DUST.....pricless material. They had it in them to make the PERFECT star wars game but instead have gotten lazy and content to simply bring out something to whoever moans the most. HOW SOE could have fallen so far is beyond my understanding.
I LOVE star wars, LOVE IT. But this game....this game is NOT star wars, its not even close and it never came close.
When the smuggling missions are released thats when my judgement will be held. If SOE screw up this time id have no problem going for the cancel button. I dont want to cancel but i wont play a game that feels more like a primary school than an enjoyable MMO 
