CUEmu - Thread Posts

Ternque01

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:26 pm

Lucas Arts IS pushing the bastardization of this game. Probably the only research they do toward gathering information about what to do in this game is gathered during things like Fan Fest, hence all of the REDICULOUS changes that are going in. For example, there was NO reason to move BH missions to the master's box.

I guarantee that SOE is the one behind making the Jedi less powerful. That was the only decision keeping this game from being completely over run in PvP. I can't wait until LA gets ahold that Jedi are pissed about this. I have a fair belief that when that time comes, Jedi will be beefed up again, and I know there will be souls at SOE who will stick up for us and the game as a whole. Perhaps a few more SOE employees will lose their jobs fighting for SOME shred of common sense.

Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.

Ternque01

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:27 pm

#41

maxtheusher wrote:

Okay, I don't say this often, but I'm actually leaning towards LA.

Evidence for this conclusion:

SOE at least has some interaction with the players.

LA devs, when they do speak to the press, speak as if they have NO concept of what's even going on in game, let alone what players want.

LA is supposed to have final say, and also, can come in and say, "do this" with anything and everything dealing with the game.

Therefore I conclude that it is probably MOSTLY (but maybe not all) the doing of LA, particularly some evil troll in marketing.

BINGO

Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.

maxtheusher

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:45 pm

#42

Case in point:

Julio Torres. FREQUENTLY does interviews with gaming sites...

"The other advantage to Galaxies being in the time frame it is, we can reveal what happened with certain characters or storylines in the prequels. Look for relics of the Clone Wars and a look at General Grievous almost 20 years later in Episode III Rage of the Wookiees."

"The combat upgrade was designed to "even the playing field" for all the professions. The creature handler before the CU was a very unbalanced, overpowered profession. There was a real need to adjust it so it could coexist in harmony with the other professions."

I'll spare you the rest of the quotes because they are ALL some variation of "Yes we are aware of blank, we're discussing blank, we currently have no plans to include blank"

大胆框

赏金猎人

动性交你 SOE

SpinningCloud

Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:40 pm

#43

My opinion?

*shrugs*

For me probably not much. I'm trying to talk myself into giving them ONE more chance but I really hate going back on my self-imposed deadline.

Slicing isn't doing it for me. The SMUGGLING content isn't likely to be any better than what they did to slicing. That leaves me wondering what future SWG really has for me at least.

I only play a Jedi on this forum, lol, so that's not going to get my interest.

The lastest changes to Dancers kind of interested me in switching my TKM/MPikeman back to TKM/MDancer but then I'd still be gimped on health and entertainers have NOTHING to offer other players so....

Unless SOE changes the way they do business with us I see no interesting future.

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Two years of "Soon"(TM), a harsh bunch of lies.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie"

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Dancers can't smuggle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Why are there Jedi, I don't know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Raanan

Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:56 pm

#44

Warlocks are getting a talent tree redone and so are warriors. Both the classes I play...

Good things almost never happen for me in swg.

*******************************************************
Explorer 80% - Socializer 53% - Killer 40% - Achiever 26%
Player type

Raanan Soulfire - Bloodfin MSmuggler/MCommando
Breytei E'kre - Starsider Commando/Bounty Hunter

Utumno

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:26 pm

#45

Ya know..maybe its not the only thing but...

Seems like more than one thing going wrong in this game stems from jedi.. I mean to say so long as there is one prof that is given the power to lord over all others..... There will never be "balance".. And this "balance" talk is what most of the changes I have seen come from..

I dont mean to sound like an "I hate jedi cry baby" but really they seem to be the root of alot to many problems in this game.. And I think its cause they were sold as the end all be all class.. You can balance a Rifleman vs a Carbineer.. But how do ya balance the guy who has an everything in one prof?.. He is sold on his power and has to have it to make people want it.. They want to be the best of the best.. But in a game like this there aint supposed to be room for a prof like that..

But maybe none of this is true, or means a damn.. Maybe it is just my anger talking.. I mean I should be happy that I have to group now to hunt.... Group with all my fre............ Oh wait due to jedi numbers and the CU all my RL friends quit and so did half my in game ones...

Yup I guess I am a baby... Ignore me I guess.

JohnAdams

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:32 pm

#46

I don't know about the future of the game. At times I thought it was spent, but it's more entertaining to me now than it was before. With a WS as one char and an MS/MBH for another (and both working on Pilot), I find there is plenty to do. But it's hard to tell if that's just me or if any others feel the same way. But a lot of the discontent seems to point back to Jedi.

Leaving the timeline aside (could be an alternate universe FWIW), there are good reasons not to have an "Alpha" class. Someone wrote about this in the Commando forums about a month ago and totally changed my thinking on it. At the time I was beginning to warm to the idea that other profs - like Commandos, Smugglers, etc. - should also get advanced abilities after a set of quests. You can find ideas like this on a lot of forums now. But what this guy explained was that one "Alpha" class unbalances things; more would be worse. I still think the way that Jedi was originally conceived is the only viable alternative. Permadeath does keep the Jedi populations low or at least hidden. It gives you the ability to play the class - just not permanently.

People will say that it isn't a viable thing to do now - that too many people would quit. But there was a tremendous outcry about the CU and the game is still going now. Sure a lot of Jedi would be hacked when their guy goes bye-bye, but I can guarantee there are just as many that will say good riddance. In the end you'd be left with 2 types - people who are really good at it and those who play the class as it should be (i.e. very carefully). I suspect the only people you'd really lose are the spoiled brats and they'll probably move on anyway.

If the devs were smart, they have several tools at their disposal. They could have Vader invoke article 66 (or whatever it is) and use the BH terms to whittle down the population. Since marks are now anonymous, you can't really be accused of griefing. And there is enough negative opinion of Jedi in general that I suspect many would gladly participate. IMO, Jedi have dug their own grave. With their arrogant attitudes (towards "normals" or "mundanes") and their complaints resulting in nerfs to other professions, I doubt there will be a lot of sympathy towards their plight.

I was one of the many that thought back in '03 that if I did the right combination of mind numbing missions or was seen by a dev doing something really helpful to a noob that somehow I might be lucky enough to open a slot. The quote I remember most was that a Jedi's existence would be "brief but exciting". I never did have anything against Jedi. But it's obvious there are just too many of them and there has to be some way to cull the population. Somehow I doubt that is what will happen.

CrazyBob - grumpy old weaponsmith
Check your global south of Dearic on Bria

Raanan

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:23 pm

#47

For me, it's not just the jedi anymore. It's almost everything. Jedi are a cause of a good majority of the prominent problems but shiiittt man!Almost every single profession has a long list of things it needs fixed and all at least have some things needing fixed. The ui is still borked after 2 years. Entertainers have nothing, rangers have nothing, wait! Entertainers gives insp buffs and rangers can track! Hurray for them! /sigh Faction perks are screwed up (a faction armor schematic costs about the same as an HQ for example). This game has so many things which make absolutely no sense at all and with every change the convoluted mess just gets worse. Run through the game for an hour and count the amount of bugs you see no matter what you do. Count the amount which have been around since release and at most you'll cut the number in half.

That is what set WoW apart from other mmorpgs. It isn't in a catagory of it's own. Blizzard didn't develop anything new. They simple refined and polished what has already been around for mmorpgs. They refined and they polished and continued to do so until they could release a game which is inspiringly bug free. Hell, the only problem at launch was they didn't think as many people would get into it as did so they had to add more servers almost immediately. Since then, there's been bug fixes but the majority of patches have been balance issues (not caused by bugs) and content as well as true improvements (not bug fixes labled as improvements). It's the polish and refinement which sets WoW apart, nothing more.

About the only thing SWG has going for it is graphics. Crank the graphics and it's a really beautiful game.That, however, is another issue as it would take a very top of the line system to run SWG with its graphics cranked as the engine is piss poor at handling system resources. I remember something I was told when I first started playing and asked why my fps was capped at 30. "They capped it at 30 to make room for other things," I was told by a beta tester I had met. I'm still trying to figure out that comment especially after taking some Computer Science classes in school. One thing I've come to the conclusion about though, 30fps would be just fine if the engine worked as efficiently as say, the City of Heros engine but as it is, with my system which is way above minimum specs, I have to drop my graphics almost all the way down to maintain a frame rate which just maintains in the 20's not even a steady 30.

I guess my point from all this rambling is this: SWG is chalk full of really strangedesign decisions (arguably poor but thatwould fall under "hindsight is 20/20" imo). It has been from the beginning. THAT is the source of SWG's problems, nothing else.

I have no hope for SWG. None at all. As I said before, the only reason I stick around now is Vode Inya. Great bunch of people.

*******************************************************
Explorer 80% - Socializer 53% - Killer 40% - Achiever 26%
Player type

Raanan Soulfire - Bloodfin MSmuggler/MCommando
Breytei E'kre - Starsider Commando/Bounty Hunter

Graxul

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:33 pm

#48

Utumno wrote:

Ya know..maybe its not the only thing but...

Seems like more than one thing going wrong in this game stems from jedi.. I mean to say so long as there is one prof that is given the power to lord over all others..... There will never be "balance".. And this "balance" talk is what most of the changes I have seen come from..

I dont mean to sound like an "I hate jedi cry baby" but really they seem to be the root of alot to many problems in this game.. And I think its cause they were sold as the end all be all class.. You can balance a Rifleman vs a Carbineer.. But how do ya balance the guy who has an everything in one prof?.. He is sold on his power and has to have it to make people want it.. They want to be the best of the best.. But in a game like this there aint supposed to be room for a prof like that..

But maybe none of this is true, or means a damn.. Maybe it is just my anger talking.. I mean I should be happy that I have to group now to hunt.... Group with all my fre............ Oh wait due to jedi numbers and the CU all my RL friends quit and so did half my in game ones...

Yup I guess I am a baby... Ignore me I guess.

In my opinion the only profession that should be balanced against a true actual star wars jedi would be another jedi. There has been an ongoing Jedi Civil War going on behind the scenes of all the Star Wars Movies. Jedi would not attack unless provoked.

The Galactic Civil War should be fought by non jedi rebels and imperials...fighting a winnable fight where each combat profession in a group has a chance of defeating every other player in a group. If non jedi pvp was viable again without jedi then PvP would be fun again for non jedi professions in a group.

The Jedi Civil War should be fought amongst Padawans, Light Jedi and Dark Jedi.In my opinion Light Jedi and Dark Jedishould either have their own factions of light or dark or a higher tier of being overt preventing them from attacking non jedi. Non jedi could beome that higher tier of overt and fight along side jedi of that faction if they choose...but forcing Jedi to be perma-overt at the same tier of overtness as regular professions is unbalancing and harmful to the game. The way things are currently makes being a non jedi in the GCW pretty much pointless since Jedi are designed to be overpowered. If Jedi were seperated from the regular non jedi PvP player base then Jedi could be made to be more powerful and their jedi professions could be balanced against other jedi professions. Jedi should only get better ranking toward FRS by killing other Jedi...or possibly by killing bounty hunters with a missionto kill them...if the bounty hunters still are able to kill them and if they still get missions to kill them. Any other player kills shouldn't count at all since they would be too easy of a kill.

High end loot for Jedi should be accessible in repeatable missions or mini quests instanced for Jedi and Padawans...possibly even some battlegrounds designed for Jedi if they ever put those back in. With the intention of reducing the camping of mobs that non jedi also need to kill. Imagine a little mini quest that a jedi could get from their trainer that would allow their group access to a PvE battleground where their group could fight Ancient Krayts that would drop the better pearls...how hard would that be to set up? Ideally this would reduce some camping of krayts by jedi for pearls. Ideally a lot of loot camping could be reduced some through making instances of dungeons and high end mobs through battleground format. Though I'm not sure how practical it would be to instance everything thats high end but I think you get the general idea i'm proposing here.

I don't think there would be so much animosity toward jedi if the high end quests with loot for non jedi didn't require jedi in order to do...or they weren't camped by jedi groups all the time preventing non jedi from accessing that content.

If Jedi still gain visibility on the bounty hunter terminals, then Jedi shouldn't gain visibility while in a group of jedi. They should still gain visibility while in a group with non jedi. Bounty Hunters with a mission to kill a Jedi shouldn't give visibility to any Jedi that are seen by that bounty hunter while he still has the mission. This would reduce visibility since the jedi wouldn't gain visibility from a bounty hunter that attacks a jedi in the group, passes bythe group of jedi while looking for the bounty hunter's mark, and it wouldn't grant visibility to a jedi when fighting the bounty hunter that has a mission to kill him/her. Of course this method would also not give visibility to jedi grouped with or following a bounty hunter to find a jedi of the opposite faction...but every implementation you can think of would have some drawback and this to me isn't that bad since it would remarkably reduce the ways to gain visibility for Jedi and make it much more feasable to actually stay off the terms to some degree. Once a Jedi dies and clones, visibility on terms should be reduced to zero and any other bounty hunter missions for the Jedi that died should fail. The bounty hunter that did the most damage should gain sole credit for the kill if more than one bounty hunter fought the Jedi. If the bounty hunter fails the mission from dieing (deathblow or triple incap) then the mission for that Jedi should fail and the bounty hunter would be prevented from taking another jedi mission for 24 hrs. If the bounty hunter kills the jedi then the jedi is removed from terms. To prevent Jedi from blatantly acquiring visibility and just accepting death when the bounty hunter comes, then a possible way to counter this is to make the xp loss proportional to the amount of visibility accrued. High amount of visibility would then equal a high amount of experience loss. Hopefully by allowing no visibility from other jedi, the jedi will actually gain xp by grouping with jedi only groups and the jedi will avoid showing their jedi skills to non jedi in high population areas...possibly avoid high population areas altogether. Also Jedi shouldn't gain visibility from anyone in this higher tier of overtness, but anyone in this higher tier of overtness shouldn't be able to heal or be healed by any player not of the same level and faction of overtness. Please note this would allow jedi and non jedito group together without the jedi in the group gaining visibility from the non jedi, however it does add risk to the non jedi in group since they are now attackable by jedi of the opposite faction and of the same level of overtness.

I don't intend to sound like a jedi hating cry baby either...if I do it's not my intention. What most non jedi want is to feel useful as our non jedi professions again. For many of us PvP and GCW is our only real high end content atm and would like to participate in the GCW PvP battles without fearing being slaughtered by groups of Jedi that we have no chance of killing. Last I checked Jedi have no role in GCW PvP other than to kill everyone and heal themselves or the group. Smugglers on the other hand are needed to actually destroy both PvP and PvE bases. If Jedi were segregated into another a higher tier of overt status on the ground then non jedi would have a lot more content available to them by fighting against more balanced opponents...non jedi. Jedi could still participate in the GCW by fighting npcs and killing the opposite faction's Jedi...JCW. For those Jedi that don't care about visibility now the only change would be that they are only fighting the jedi and npcs rather than non jedi as well. In the current system Jedi are already gaining visibility when they participate in the GCW so it shouldn't affect them much more than they already are.

Message Edited by Graxul on 07-07-2005 02:53 AM

Graxul Starweaver-Starsider
Grax Oblivion-Starsider

Utumno

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:45 pm

#49

Well as it stands I will have little to do and to hope for in future patches as I can see.... And at fault or not, ALL jedi are my new worst enemy... Second only to the team of idiots behind SWG.. How they can take a great idea and mess it up as bad as they have is...well...quite beyond my capacity..

I will go now, fade away as so many have... I have ended my subscriptions, and removed the POS from my comp.. I dont care anymore what they do.. It will not be my concern anymore..

To the rest of ya thats stayin... There is a line from a song I thought applied..

"We are the people, we are strong.. Lets make up our minds and pool our brawn".... Thats the only way you kids will ever get what ya want.. And no ingame protests wont save ya now.. Gonna have to take it to the money makers.. Hit em where it hurts most..

Oh and uh... Win one for the Gipper......or...Till all are one..... err ehh...somthin.. Wheres my smokes..

Aendracon

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:33 am

#50

Graxul wrote:

In my opinion the only profession that should be balanced against a true actual star wars jedi would be another jedi.

I have to disagree.

Why are Jedi considered to be the epitome of characters in this game anyway? This is supposed to be Episode IV - V. The mightiest "Jedi" alive is Luke Skywalker, whom Han could have defeated with one hand tied to hisback any time. Even in Episode VI, he wasn´t really a match for Boba Fett.

So, if we want to assume some Jedi did survive the purge at the end of Episode III, they would have to be rather weak or else the Empire would have taken an effort to eliminate them.

My point: if we must have Jedi in this game (which I don´t mind as long as they are not a nuisance) why on earth do they have to be the strongest playable profession in the first place? If they are as common (or even the most common) profession these days, why not just make them a regular profession? A swordmaster with a glowstick, if you like? Was Luke a one man army?

Its really simple - as long as Jedi are the alpha and the omega of this game, everyone is tempted to become one. But if they are just one profession among many, only people liking the Jedi flavor would go for them. We don´t even need a nerv bat or a purge - just raise the other professions to their level.

And for the love ofgod - why do (only) Jedi get a second character slot on top? Isn´t there enough icying on the cake already?

Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler

"do not assume your customers are morons. odds are they know a lot more about the situation than you do because they live with it every day. listen to them, actually listen, and take what they say into account. you might save some money, morons."

- Fernas

Oblox2

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:59 am

#51

Its not the class of jedi that is the issue its the players, most that are jedi are usually PVPers and have the counter strike frame of mind red=dead and so on. This isnt what people expect of jedi and that is the biggest problem jedi is the only class where people have expectations of how it should be played. Most want it kept in the timeline hermits living in seclusion but they forget that this is an MMORPG not a single player game so making people social lepers isnt ever going to happen, they dont want them in PVP yet the developers designed jedi as a PVP profession in publish 9, again without a full revamp this wont change, any time spent on jedi by the devs for revamps or fix's is greeted with hostility by other player groups because they want their profession fixed yet then contunually moan about jedi, catch 22 situation.

Then you have the whole Jedi BH system, the most unhealthy thing in this game that inspires hatred griefing and idiots on both sides. The current publish 20 changes in my view are leading to another big jedi change, my thoughts are either removal from the GCW with the FRS release or harsher penalities such as a blue glowie system. With the new bh limitations and group vis going they are removing BH a step from the jedi debacle which is a good thing, jedi will be able to grind to knight quickly aqnd safely but then they need to do something and players have made it quite clear they dont want jedi PVP to dominate all.

I have no facts to backup my views but its the only logical course of action, grind with impunity but when finished your limited.

I do think the devs see the jedi problem but like most players cant find a method to sort it without really annoying a massive part of the playerbase, hopefully the FRS will do something towards this but well just have to wait and see.

~ Ani'a L'o ~
Dune Sea Desperadoes

Aendracon

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:12 am

#52

Oblox2 wrote:
yet the developers designed jedi as a PVP profession

Problem is: they are not a but rather the PVP profession. Imagine you were in this game for PVP... would you become a martyr or rather howl with the wolves?

That´s why all (alright: most)powergamers flog to Jedi.

Oh, just a thought: make stormtroopers a regular profession and give them a 10% advantage over other professions. Maybe theEmpire will get some respect then and I am tired of stepping over white shelled corpses all day anyway.

Ryian Coron - Elder Smuggler

"do not assume your customers are morons. odds are they know a lot more about the situation than you do because they live with it every day. listen to them, actually listen, and take what they say into account. you might save some money, morons."

- Fernas

Smuggler Archive

Thread: Just waxing intellectual on the future of SWG...what's YOUR opinion?