Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband/Missions PART 2 (Solutions)
Kyllan
Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:27 pm
#573
And can I just say that I want to be able to have two pistols at a time! Don't know where I should put that particular line of thought, but there it is. Even If all that can be done is to see two pistols and do the same amount of damage. I want 2 pistols at a time...sigh, I'm done.
Kyllan
Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:34 pm
#575
Zhagadska wrote:
Kyllan wrote:
And can I just say that I want to be able to have two pistols at a time! Don't know where I should put that particular line of thought, but there it is. Even If all that can be done is to see two pistols and do the same amount of damage. I want 2 pistols at a time...sigh, I'm done.
there was a plan for master pistoleers and master swordsman (1hand) to be able to use 2 weapons at the same time. and while i think that is still a plan, it's been pushed off the table for the CURB. probably something added well down the line.
Sigh...yeah, I seem to remember something to that effect. Ah, well.
How about me being able to put a gun in my left hand. Anyone notice that we're all right handed?
Message Edited by Kyllan on 02-04-2005 03:35 PM
motrhed
Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:03 pm
#576
Sigh...yeah, I seem to remember something to that effect. Ah, well.
How about me being able to put a gun in my left hand. Anyone notice that we're all right handed?
How about me being able to put a gun in my left hand. Anyone notice that we're all right handed?
Message Edited by Kyllan on 02-04-2005 03:35 PM
I think because lefties are personna non grata in this far, far away galaxy from long, long ago.
NasherUK
Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:06 am
#577
If smugglers will get bountys placed on them, I'd like to see stuff other than missions for the BH to just killing them.Stuff likeincapping them and taking back "stolen cargo" or collecting a "dept for jabba", but not actually killing them. Stuff like that to add some veriety to the missions, all of which FD wouldnt be a way out of. And I think it would be more fun for both sides instead of just a simple "kill this guy and get paid" mission like we have for jedi already.
Kyllan
Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:41 pm
#578
NasherUK wrote:If smugglers will get bountys placed on them, I'd like to see stuff other than missions for the BH to just killing them. Stuff like incapping them and taking back "stolen cargo" or collecting a "dept for jabba", but not actually killing them. Stuff like that to add some veriety to the missions, all of which FD wouldnt be a way out of. And I think it would be more fun for both sides instead of just a simple "kill this guy and get paid" mission like we have for jedi already.
Yeah, good point.
gassygunslinger
Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:20 pm
#579
I admit, I am VERY angry at the lack of action taken towards smuggler's, and I (personaly) don't think the combat revamp is as important, but I do realize the reasoning behind it, and I'm not going to moan and curse and swear at SOE for doing they're job, and trying to make everyone happy. But, I MUST stress the point that AS SOON as the combat revamp is finished, that they IMEDIATELY work on the smuggler... We have had promises for a long time, and we still have a Smuggler Proffesion without smuggling. And please! Please don't hand us a couple of new attacks with unarmed and call it good. PVE, PVP, whatever you do, just do it! I personaly don't think too much PVP will be that good, but hey, if they put it out at all, I will be satisfied! And I think the people who complain and moan about what they don't want, deep inside, know that they will be satisfied as well... But really, it's been so long, that the smuggler's need some REALLY cool stuff to stop them from quiting all together. Because we know, if you hand us a few new combat abilities, maybe fix experimentation with spice, all that it will do is make it suck less... I don't want to be one of those people who scream out curses, and tell everyone at SOE to go to h#ll because they know they are saying it annonomously. I mean, I would like to drive down to wherever SOE is making this game, and whip all of the programers until they come out with everything the way I want it within 24 hours, but I'm not going to.
In short, do something, do it right, make it BIG... And do it soon?
Ezis
Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:08 pm
#580
Due to the fact that you're in here posting what you're trying to do with the Smuggler Revamp, I'm going to hold out my... ehem... other opinions here...
Firs off I'd like to start off this by asking if this will end up like the other Smuggler Revamp we were getting in Publish 11 is it?
Now, let's get this in a breakdown.
1. PvP/PvE interaction. I believe that you should create 2 forms of missions. All missions in-game give you a name of the mission giver. I think here you could put some sort of indicator as to whether or not it's PvP or PvE. Instead of giving us a name that's going to show up on every other terminal as a mission giver, have it say PvP or PvE so we know we can get attacked by players. If this isn't viable, how about separate terminals?
Of course, this way you'd be able to run both easy and hard missions in PvE or PvP, but you could have increased payout on the PvP missions, and even some higher-end items available to you for taking the PvP experience.
2. The punishments should be prety high for getting caught with contraband. Of course, spice, being a drug offense, you should be fined by the npc, with the ammount of the fine being dictated by how much spice you have, and how many times you've been issued a fine.You will also have the spice confiscated.This can get very expensive, but of course, if you're grouped with a master smuggler, you're equally good at evading scans as they are.
The punishments for modified armor should be slightly higher, say a hit in your faction (if you're an imp getting caught in rebel territory with modified armor, and get a nice little fine, are they really gonna take you seriously on your side, and vice versa), a fine, and confiscation.
Weapons you should be attacked on sight for, with a loss of faction and the troop calling for backup, if you get killed, all illegal goods removed.
Being caught with stuff from a smuggler mission, should result in player visibility (if taken from a PvP mission), confiscation causing mission failure, possible attack, and a hefty fine.
I'd like to see all NPC authority figures scan. If they're cor-sec, sor-sec, rsf, rebel, whatever, they can scan, and they can implement fines, or be killed. If you attack them, reinforcements spawn.
3. A person with sliced goods can always fight their way out of the situation. Paying the fine will result in willing confiscation, you can still fight or run. If you die, you lose the parts and the money for the fine, if you kill the backup/scanner or run away, you're free to move along.
gassygunslinger
Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:31 pm
#581
Ok... Here is my proposal to change the smuggler proffession, to keep as much stuff the same, to not bring too much confusion, but to put enough stuff in to satisfy everyone else.
Underworld Skill Branch:
This branch should emphasize the fighting methods of the TRUE smuggler, which, is NOT fighting... The Dirty Fighting branch in this case, shows how a smuggler fights when they ARE caught, and would in this case satisfy those who want smugglers to be more of an evasive proffesion. They also emphasize smugglers as being useful in a group, and adds to as well as complements other proffesions. But, it would also be very useful in the smugler missions, as detailed below.
1: Bribe (For credits in proportion to the difficulty level, sentient authority forces will "ignore" the smuggler for a certain period of time)
2: Distract (For a certain time frame based on they smuggler's skill, which may or may not work, nearby enemies will be attracted to the current location of the smuggler. This would work on ALL enemies, and could be effective in all combat. It could be used as a trap, or an escape)
3. Sleep-Bomb (Using certain sedatives, most likely created from thier spice, the smuggler can create sedatives that will allow him to escape. While the enemies won't actualy sleep, they will be so sedated, that they won't pay much attention to them... Attacking them would cause them to, "snap out of it". This would allow the spice to come into play better, as well as giving combat escape roots.)
4. Disguise (This would allow for temporary reversal of negative faction statuses. This could be used in a group also, so that an overt group may, "slip through" enemy detections... Again, the success would be based on skill, and would be very short. This again, makes the smuggler usefull in a group)
Slicing Skill Branch:
Keep everything the same, except, take out the molecular clamps and flow analyzers, and the "system" of how slicing is done. Instead, make it a randomization, with your skill improving the success rate. Much like "Lock-Picking" in other RPG's. Because there is now no longer a 50-100% chance of success, the results can be improved greatly, to make them more useful. Once again, it wouldn't be too powerful, because there isn't a sure chance of success. It wouldn't be changed too much, and yet it would be improved, and more useful.
Dirty Fighting Skill Branch:
I would keep this the same, as it does bring some combat into the proffesion, but with the changes to Underworld, it would satisfy the realism, as the emphasis is on the running aspect of smuggling.
Spice Crafting Skill Branch:
I wouldn't tamper too much with this yet. I think the only thing that should be changed, is that its more effective, but MUCH less longer lasting... Making it, a "last-ditch" item that smugglers are known for.
Missions:
Ok, there should be two types of missions, the first, is Smuggle. This, is a standard go from point A to point B delivery mission, however, at points A and B there should be heavy security forces, emphasizing the need to distract them, and get away. The spawned security should be MORE powerful than the smuggler to make sure they want to run.This should be simple to script, and not too complicated. But, thetwist, is that the smuggler can opt to keep some of what he is smuggling. The more he keeps, (based on value) thegreater chance he is caught. If he IS caught, thenhis name will be posted for bounty, and he will be hunted, until a certain amount of time is over (I will leave that up to you) and if killed, must give back the item,AND pay a fine three times the mission reward.
The second type of mission, is Steal. This will start out, by giving the smuggler a waypoint. It will be just like the camps that spawn for destroy missions, except that this time, it will beforcesMORE powerful than the smuggler, and it will contain some crates or containers that the smuggler will be able to slice and take whats in them. Because the slicing won't be a 50/50 thing, or even a 100% type of event (like in the case of clamps)it will be harderto steal it all.At this point, it is a choice to either, kill the guards and steal the stuff (very difficult), or distract them long enough to get them open, and steal enough to satisfy thier employer. It will be a race against time, and it will get them slicing xp and be very tense and exciting. Then, once they are satisfied, they proceed to point B and give them what they have stolen. They could, in this case choose to take some for themselves, and risk calling a bounty on them.
As you can see, it would implement most of the existing skills, and add smuggling missions. The missions wouldn't be too complex to script, as they are not too different to do. The "distractions" type of moves would be useful in many occasions, not just in these missions. The smuggler, would then, in groups, be the "just incase" guy. The one who gets you out of occasions where you know your screwed. While this isn't exactly the kind of things that people where looking for, when they wanted to smuggle for players, that would create too much lag, and complicate a lot for everyone else, and it would make everyone but smugglers angry. Slicing would have more of a purpose, and would be more risky. And for the people who don't want PVP, then they just shouldn't steal from their employer!It would create interesting missions for smugglers, but not be too fancy, and make other proffesions complain.I hope this wasn't too long, and that it includes what most people want, without changing too much, and not completely screwing everyone else up! I just really hope on of you Dev's read this! If you do read these, can you give us a sign?
Egowyn
Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:35 am
#582
GreenMarine wrote:
See this link for part 1:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=96114
Summary 1: The key argument was over the impact of "visibility" punishments for ripping off suppliers or failing smuggling missions. There is a portion of the player base that desires PvP and a portion that does not. The main issue is the possibility of "involuntary PvP" or a player gaining a bounty who wants to be a smuggler but not participate in PvP.
Solution: The solution I like most is to have the mission suppliers offer two types of mission for each skill level. The punishments for failing or cheating a mission then become:
- Normal Mission: You lose NPC faction with that supplier. You lose a small amount of GCW faction if the supplier belongs toa faction. You could possibly be ambushed by thugs from that supplier.
- CriticalMission: Harsher versions of the above + you gain visibility.
The rewards for critical missions would be somewhat higher than normal missions. Also, some types of illegal cargo would only be available via critical missions. The RISK is possible PvP as well as other penalties. The REWARD is rare components (if you cheat the supplier) or better cash.
I love this plan its an EXCELLENT comprimise and will add much fun to the profession for both PVPers and PVEers
Egowyn
Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:31 pm
#583
theres no gaurentee a jedi will get a BH on them, your missing the point...a smuggler doing the high risk missions RISKS haveing a bounty placed on them, and for those who would rather not, they can run the low risk missions for less pay BUT if you want to gain components for better spice those are EXCLUSIVE to the high risk missions.
Not every singe smuggler mission SHOULD have a BH attached ...like the jedi visiblity system (wich i imagine will be expanded to include smugglers) the master Bounty hunters will be sticking to the high pay high profile smugglers and the bounty hunters working thier way up will be grabbing up the low paying lower visiblity smuglers.
gassygunslinger
Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:10 pm
#584
What I'm saying, is that there will be a low chance of a bounty hunter on a smuggler's tail, EVEN if they take the high risk missions. Sorry if I said it wrong. What I'm trying to say, is that it would get too the point where the high risk missions are too easy, as the chances of them being tailed are low. There will be so many smuggler's out there, that the critical missions will be just an easy way to snag some quick cash and good loot. I think, as a solution, if no player character goes after the smuggler, a computer should tail him. And they need to make sure that there is a great enough punishment for getting killed by a bounty hunter. But, then again it can't be too great, or else no one would like to risk it. What I'm getting at, is it will take a long time to fine tune this system. The rewards can't be too great, it can't be too easy, it can't be pointless... Theres just so much! Sorry if I said it wrong, or ignorantly... I'm not great at writing arguments! But, ultimately what I'm trying to say, is that it may be taking the Dev's a long time because it isn't as simple as writing some code, and puting a mission together. To get it right, it's going to take A LOT of work on thier parts. I hope this clarifies my oppinion... Or obfuscates it... However you want to look at it.
gassygunslinger
Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:13 am
#585
I agree completely with what you are saying, but, there has to be balance to the way it works. If the PVP only can be hunted by bounty hunters who get thier names, it will be (usualy) much easier, and more profitable to stick with PVP. The chances may be very slim that they have a bounty hunter on thier tail, and it may get to be very rare for any encounters.While, yes, the jedi can behunted now, butthere areA LOTmore smugglersthan there are jedi right now, and while there would be a bountiful selection for the bounty hunters, there wouldbe so many smugglers that only one out of every fifty actualy gets a bounty hunter tracking him, and even less so actualy finding him.The point I'm trying to make, is that eventualy, people would only choose the PVP mission to engage in PVP, when they could just as easily do a duel. It has to be finely balanced, and tuned to make it more exiting, and just isn't as simple as making it go. This, could be a reason why it has been stalled.