Smuggler Archive

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Nerj wrote:

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SBRD0C wrote:

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Nerj wrote:

(P.S. -- a flag system won't work either; unlessyou are willing to let PvPers have the better loot, since there will be NO NPC Bounty Hunters after you)

copied from previous post

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Clarification: you mean slightly better mission loot (when I say better I more or less mean more qty of spices etc) in order to offset the loot a PvE encounter would drop?

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More quanity, better quality, Phat Loot --[ Krayt Pearls, NS Vibro Motors, smuggler tools ( lets you into BH terms, better slices, etc.), New and undiscovered ?]

ALL BANNED ITEMS

P.S. -- Remember that our revamp will takes place after the Combat Balance, GCW revamp, and JTL. Who knows how these things will affect us.

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Not sure if I follow you... but NPC BH's that are sent because you failed should have no loot on them. Just like if you were to kill a PC BH you do not get loot.

I support this idea.

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Ternque01 wrote:

For all you latecomers. Here is a solution. Stop the arguing people. If this idea doesn't please everyone, please feel free to pick it apart.

I suggest you all drop your blasters and voice some support for it here! It respects all players playstyles, and furthermore ensures that those who mess with the law get what is coming to them! Hiyaahhh!!!

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DRWolfe wrote:

'Sok Ternque. This discussions getting everyone a bit on edge, which is what I was hoping to ease up a bit. The focus needs to switch from the pros/cons of PvP and PvE and why one's better than the other and work on something both sides like. Along with that, I think we're close. Here's a summary:

The player has a switch set on his character, either in the launchpad settings or by some in-game means like Covert/Overt (probably better if someone wants PvE on one character and PvP on another) that will determine if a character is PvE or PvP for purposes of illegal activity visibility. Covert/Overt will continue to determine PvE or PvP for GCW.

Once a character's visibility has increased enough to get a Bounty, one of two things happens depending on this flag.

PvP Flag: Character is put on the Bounty Hunter terminals for PC BHs to hunt the character down. If the BH dies, another can try as usual.

PvE Flag: A random number is generated (say from 15-180) that indicates how long in actual online minutes before an NPC Bounty Hunter will track down the character. When this timer expires, a ship lands and the BH emerges to attack the character. If the character or the BH is not killed, a new random number is generated (this one from 120-240) and this is how long before another attempt is made. If the BH dies, the random number for the next attempt will be longer (say 180-300). These times can be adjusted for balancing risk vs. annoyance factor.

Either way, if the player is killed, the bounty is removed and visibility is reduced a great amount.

Sound good so far?

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Jhovial wrote:

>>but if you truely do hate PvP then you will not want PvP added in.<<

That is an assumption based solely on your own feelings. Let others have their own opinions without telling them how they must feel.

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No... actually that is based on logic. If you hate peanutbutter would you eat a peanutbutter sandwidch? No. Now if you just disliked peanutbutter, for any number of reasons, you could tolerate eating... you might not like it but you could eat it.

I hate peanutbutter, those that also hate peanutbutter would never eat peanutbutter.... where is the logic in that?

What I was trying to get across is that his playstyle is a mixed one... while he plays mostly PvE he also admited to participating in PvP encounters. His playstyle, while I respect it, is not the same as mine nor of hardcore PvE'ers. Just like his playstyle is not hardcore PvP.

Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-17-2004 07:19 PM

Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-17-2004 07:20 PM

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RellikCro wrote:

well it has been pretty much agreed upon in the last 10 pages that ALL playstyles do in fact need to be respected and that does include pure PvE. All you are doing is extended a debate that was pretty much cleared up and refocusing on it instead of solutions to respect all sides.

10%, if even that, of playerbase actualy reads these forums so while you may say "all" or "most" smugglers what you are really saying is most of the smugglers that have POSTED here would like that. Well alot more smuggles are posting now because of the forced PvP concept that was being talked about and as it gets closer and more is known and it truely would look like that then you will get even more posters and means the game is made of over 90% PvE'ers I would assume it be much better to try to work with this playstyle then against it.

In the end we all want to play a fun game, but that will only happen when we can start respecting each other and how we play the game.

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Duckfat wrote:

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RellikCro wrote:

well it has been pretty much agreed upon in the last 10 pages that ALL playstyles do in fact need to be respected and that does include pure PvE. All you are doing is extended a debate that was pretty much cleared up and refocusing on it instead of solutions to respect all sides.

10%, if even that, of playerbase actualy reads these forums so while you may say "all" or "most" smugglers what you are really saying is most of the smugglers that have POSTED here would like that. Well alot more smuggles are posting now because of the forced PvP concept that was being talked about and as it gets closer and more is known and it truely would look like that then you will get even more posters and means the game is made of over 90% PvE'ers I would assume it be much better to try to work with this playstyle then against it.

In the end we all want to play a fun game, but that will only happen when we can start respecting each other and how we play the game.

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I think it is important to point out that I am almost completely a pve player. Mostly due to the fact that I play very late when most of the pvpers are asleep getting ready to go to school (ok that was a little flame but it had to be said). What I am saying though is that the system with the BH was designed as a pvp aspect of smugglers and there should be no reason to need to do the same for pve. Its almost as bad as the pvpers complaining that they cant use their ATSTs anymore to solo krayts in pve. There are perks for playing pvp and there are perks for playing pve.

I do not agree with nonconsentual pvp and have written about how to solve the situation but no one seems to care. All it seems they care about is arguing (I won't use bickering anymore since some feel I am flaming them when I use it) with each other about respecting each others style of play. You can still smuggle and stay out of pvp as long as the devs give up this visibility thing and use my reputation rating system. If you want to pvp go ahead and ruin your rep but at the same time people can keep a good rep and smuggle and not have to do pvp.

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And I respect your views... but this is how it comes off to me. Because I do not like pvp at all and do not partake in pvp I should not enjoy the game the same as pvp players. I must not pay the same monthly cost nor must I be of equal stature on the game server... in other words because I choose to be hardcore PvE I must then be inferior to PvP'ers. Now like I said that is not what you said, but that is how I took it.

So as long as a hardcore PvE player was able to enjoy the game as fully as a Hardcore PvP player (and all playstyles inbetween) then we would have mutual respect for all. As proposed by you and others it is extremely easy to do... all that seems to stand in the way is (not all but a few) PvP'ers unable to respect any playstyle but their own.

Ok..as someone who plays both professions, let me chime in on this conversation.

First off let me try to clear up some misconceptions a lot of you seem to have regarding the actual BH's that will be hunting you. The majority of them will be master's and not the typical pvp type BH that is actually a Pistoleer or Carbineer with the BH line of their weapon choice. The ones you will see will be the ones who slogged their way through the Investigation tree, so patience and dedication will be part of their make up. I'm not talking about the Master's that got the badge then dropped it on their continuous jedi quest. I mean the Bounty Hunter's that actually take bounty missions for a living. It's their job, it's their life.

These people, and I know a lot of them, will be mature, efficient professionals. For the most part, they are not the type who will talk trash, brag or be a general **edit** if they kill you. For the real BH you are nothing more than a mark. When they are done, they may bow, say nice fight or say nothing at all. If all you're worried about is a trash talking kid coming after you, then I can speak from much experience and say that you're fears are unfounded. Of course there are exceptions to everything, and some will run across psycho types who only get pleasure from making people suffer. They exist in every profession. I have never seen a Master BH like this, but I'm sure they exist. The majority are not however, so you should stop worrying.

Another thing you should do is stop and look at it from the Hunter's perspective. Master Bounty Hunter's take a great deal of pride in their profession. They will not do anything that will fuel the already very bad reputation that they have. Most of this comes from the afore mentioned pvp types who use Scatter pistols, but have never taken a bounty in their life. They won't be able to hunt you. Another source of disdain came from the TC2 experience where BH's grouped with Dark Jedi and ran amuck killing other jedi. A great many BH's on TC2 had never even played Bounty hunter before. Anyone could pop on and create a Master BH regardless of their own profession. But of course everyone assumed that they were all BH's on live servers as well. More bad rep. And of course the whole jedi bounty fiasco that has caused a great many player, including myself to take a long break from the game.

I find it ironic when I see some of you talk about being griefed by BH's. When I actively hunted jedi, I took dozens of missions. The jedi I actually could target and kill were nothing but gracious in defeat. Their fanboi posse's however were not. I have been heckled, spat on, kicked, and harrassed for hours after just about every jedi kill that was observed by others. I have been banned from dozens of vendors because I killed jedi. Combine that with the log-out cheating and I finally quit. So anytime anybody says something like it will only lead to griefing I kinda get a bit upset. Yes there has been exploits and bad play on both sides of this mess, but most of the players involved were simply trying to make the system work the best way they could.

In close, if you're not worried about nutcase BH's giving you a hard time, then I'm not sure what problem you have with being hunted by a PC. The only thing I can think of is that some of you have a bit of an inferiority complex and being matched against another person will somehow be a judgement on how good a player you are. This is crap. The best pvp's get killed every day. They die and die often. Don't let something like that deter you from playing this game to it's utmost. Do you really want some lame NPC BH hunting you? Or a living breathing person who actually does respect you and wants nothing more than to make your death as painless as possible? Remember, you are criminals. You should expect danger. If you're afraid of it then I'm afraid you're in the wrong profession. And seeing that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game, that danger should be coming from your fellow players. It's only right. I've talked to a lot of MBH's about this and to a person they are excited as hell about the opportunity to hunt Smuggler's. They just want to interact with real people who don't afk macro on their roof...lol. They don't want to grief you. They just want to kill you. Hell, I'd bet they'd even buy you a drink afterwards. It's nothing personal, just business.

As for my own Smuggler, I plan on doing quite a bit of illegal activity once the revamp hits. I don't pvp much myself, but I'm not the slightest bit worried about who might come after me because I've been there. I also know that as they are now, BH's don't pose that big of a threat. Most triple master's should be able to handle a MBH and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Merchant type Smuggler's get some kills. Remember, it's only a game. If you get killed, you get a free trip to town, visibility erased and that's it. It's not like you're getting a root canal so quit stressing. Have a good day Smuggler's. I'll be seeing some of you shortly.

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Bryan1138 wrote:

I just want to put in a few words about three sections, overall it looks like a very good start.

1) Punishment for quasi-legal items. I would like to see fines for something quasi-legal. Of course, it depends on the nature of "quasi legal". If sliced weapons are "banned", I'm guessing weapons are "quasi legal". As one of my characters isa pure crafter and weaponsmith, I have no combat skills at all. Attacking me everytime I run from myfactory to myshop would get old real quick.

2) Punishment in general. I had to give up being a rebel due to the forced PVP brought about by scanning. I don't want to engage in PVP and if you start scanning neutrals and allowingImperial players to attack neutral, non-consenting players I will cancel my account. I made this same statement way back when Q anounced the game would be zoned PVP (anyone rememberthose days?) - ie I'd leave the community -andI still hold to that philosophy.

3) Scanning at"bottlenecks". This is a bad, bad idea especially at starports such as Coronet. It is most likely unfeasable unless you guys are planning a major upgrade to the way your servers handle information around starports. I made the mistake of landing in Kadarra once a while ago during a scan. My computerstuttered and then locked. I wokeup deadwhen I finally rebooted and got back online. Kadaara is nowhere near as busy asCoronet, which takes about 15-20 minutes to completely load on my end and allow me to move.

Hope this helps,keep up the good work GM! Note: sorry for any typos, I mashed a finger and my typing is really suffering because of it.

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I agree, it amazes me that the devs will sit there and keep saying "We will not force unconsentual pvp" and yet turn right around and propose this as part of the smuggler revamp.

They put in neutrals for a reason, it was the one "faction" that guarenteed no pvp and I believe they have a responsiblity to ensure we stay that way.

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GuntherSlag wrote:
Ok..as someone who plays both professions, let me chime in on this conversation.

First off let me try to clear up some misconceptions a lot of you seem to have regarding the actual BH's that will be hunting you. The majority of them will be master's and not the typical pvp type BH that is actually a Pistoleer or Carbineer with the BH line of their weapon choice. The ones you will see will be the ones who slogged their way through the Investigation tree, so patience and dedication will be part of their make up. I'm not talking about the Master's that got the badge then dropped it on their continuous jedi quest. I mean the Bounty Hunter's that actually take bounty missions for a living. It's their job, it's their life.

These people, and I know a lot of them, will be mature, efficient professionals. For the most part, they are not the type who will talk trash, brag or be a general **edit** if they kill you. For the real BH you are nothing more than a mark. When they are done, they may bow, say nice fight or say nothing at all. If all you're worried about is a trash talking kid coming after you, then I can speak from much experience and say that you're fears are unfounded. Of course there are exceptions to everything, and some will run across psycho types who only get pleasure from making people suffer. They exist in every profession. I have never seen a Master BH like this, but I'm sure they exist. The majority are not however, so you should stop worrying.

Another thing you should do is stop and look at it from the Hunter's perspective. Master Bounty Hunter's take a great deal of pride in their profession. They will not do anything that will fuel the already very bad reputation that they have. Most of this comes from the afore mentioned pvp types who use Scatter pistols, but have never taken a bounty in their life. They won't be able to hunt you. Another source of disdain came from the TC2 experience where BH's grouped with Dark Jedi and ran amuck killing other jedi. A great many BH's on TC2 had never even played Bounty hunter before. Anyone could pop on and create a Master BH regardless of their own profession. But of course everyone assumed that they were all BH's on live servers as well. More bad rep. And of course the whole jedi bounty fiasco that has caused a great many player, including myself to take a long break from the game.

I find it ironic when I see some of you talk about being griefed by BH's. When I actively hunted jedi, I took dozens of missions. The jedi I actually could target and kill were nothing but gracious in defeat. Their fanboi posse's however were not. I have been heckled, spat on, kicked, and harrassed for hours after just about every jedi kill that was observed by others. I have been banned from dozens of vendors because I killed jedi. Combine that with the log-out cheating and I finally quit. So anytime anybody says something like it will only lead to griefing I kinda get a bit upset. Yes there has been exploits and bad play on both sides of this mess, but most of the players involved were simply trying to make the system work the best way they could.

In close, if you're not worried about nutcase BH's giving you a hard time, then I'm not sure what problem you have with being hunted by a PC. The only thing I can think of is that some of you have a bit of an inferiority complex and being matched against another person will somehow be a judgement on how good a player you are. This is crap. The best pvp's get killed every day. They die and die often. Don't let something like that deter you from playing this game to it's utmost. Do you really want some lame NPC BH hunting you? Or a living breathing person who actually does respect you and wants nothing more than to make your death as painless as possible? Remember, you are criminals. You should expect danger. If you're afraid of it then I'm afraid you're in the wrong profession. And seeing that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game, that danger should be coming from your fellow players. It's only right. I've talked to a lot of MBH's about this and to a person they are excited as hell about the opportunity to hunt Smuggler's. They just want to interact with real people who don't afk macro on their roof...lol. They don't want to grief you. They just want to kill you. Hell, I'd bet they'd even buy you a drink afterwards. It's nothing personal, just business.

As for my own Smuggler, I plan on doing quite a bit of illegal activity once the revamp hits. I don't pvp much myself, but I'm not the slightest bit worried about who might come after me because I've been there. I also know that as they are now, BH's don't pose that big of a threat. Most triple master's should be able to handle a MBH and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Merchant type Smuggler's get some kills. Remember, it's only a game. If you get killed, you get a free trip to town, visibility erased and that's it. It's not like you're getting a root canal so quit stressing. Have a good day Smuggler's. I'll be seeing some of you shortly.

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Actually, you hit it right on the nose. You strengthen my resolve against PvP even more as those that actively participate in PvP are also griefed by others. Everyone I have ever talked to that has participated in pvp has at least one story of being spat on, trashed talked, banned from vendors, or just a very unsatisfying game experience.

I pay and play to have fun, if I wanted to get ganked, spat on, trashed talked to, or l337 speak I would join L2 or Planetside. I play SWG because so far the devs have ensured us that we would never be forced into a PvP enviroment.

I would also like to point out that you mentioned "its only a kill".... again it is not the death, not the kill... but the playstyle alot of PvE'ers do not like. Again I speak only on personal experience.

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GuntherSlag wrote:
Ok..as someone who plays both professions, let me chime in on this conversation.

First off let me try to clear up some misconceptions a lot of you seem to have regarding the actual BH's that will be hunting you. The majority of them will be master's and not the typical pvp type BH that is actually a Pistoleer or Carbineer with the BH line of their weapon choice. The ones you will see will be the ones who slogged their way through the Investigation tree, so patience and dedication will be part of their make up. I'm not talking about the Master's that got the badge then dropped it on their continuous jedi quest. I mean the Bounty Hunter's that actually take bounty missions for a living. It's their job, it's their life.

These people, and I know a lot of them, will be mature, efficient professionals. For the most part, they are not the type who will talk trash, brag or be a general **edit** if they kill you. For the real BH you are nothing more than a mark. When they are done, they may bow, say nice fight or say nothing at all. If all you're worried about is a trash talking kid coming after you, then I can speak from much experience and say that you're fears are unfounded. Of course there are exceptions to everything, and some will run across psycho types who only get pleasure from making people suffer. They exist in every profession. I have never seen a Master BH like this, but I'm sure they exist. The majority are not however, so you should stop worrying.

Another thing you should do is stop and look at it from the Hunter's perspective. Master Bounty Hunter's take a great deal of pride in their profession. They will not do anything that will fuel the already very bad reputation that they have. Most of this comes from the afore mentioned pvp types who use Scatter pistols, but have never taken a bounty in their life. They won't be able to hunt you. Another source of disdain came from the TC2 experience where BH's grouped with Dark Jedi and ran amuck killing other jedi. A great many BH's on TC2 had never even played Bounty hunter before. Anyone could pop on and create a Master BH regardless of their own profession. But of course everyone assumed that they were all BH's on live servers as well. More bad rep. And of course the whole jedi bounty fiasco that has caused a great many player, including myself to take a long break from the game.

I find it ironic when I see some of you talk about being griefed by BH's. When I actively hunted jedi, I took dozens of missions. The jedi I actually could target and kill were nothing but gracious in defeat. Their fanboi posse's however were not. I have been heckled, spat on, kicked, and harrassed for hours after just about every jedi kill that was observed by others. I have been banned from dozens of vendors because I killed jedi. Combine that with the log-out cheating and I finally quit. So anytime anybody says something like it will only lead to griefing I kinda get a bit upset. Yes there has been exploits and bad play on both sides of this mess, but most of the players involved were simply trying to make the system work the best way they could.

In close, if you're not worried about nutcase BH's giving you a hard time, then I'm not sure what problem you have with being hunted by a PC. The only thing I can think of is that some of you have a bit of an inferiority complex and being matched against another person will somehow be a judgement on how good a player you are. This is crap. The best pvp's get killed every day. They die and die often. Don't let something like that deter you from playing this game to it's utmost. Do you really want some lame NPC BH hunting you? Or a living breathing person who actually does respect you and wants nothing more than to make your death as painless as possible? Remember, you are criminals. You should expect danger. If you're afraid of it then I'm afraid you're in the wrong profession. And seeing that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game, that danger should be coming from your fellow players. It's only right. I've talked to a lot of MBH's about this and to a person they are excited as hell about the opportunity to hunt Smuggler's. They just want to interact with real people who don't afk macro on their roof...lol. They don't want to grief you. They just want to kill you. Hell, I'd bet they'd even buy you a drink afterwards. It's nothing personal, just business.

As for my own Smuggler, I plan on doing quite a bit of illegal activity once the revamp hits. I don't pvp much myself, but I'm not the slightest bit worried about who might come after me because I've been there. I also know that as they are now, BH's don't pose that big of a threat. Most triple master's should be able to handle a MBH and I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Merchant type Smuggler's get some kills. Remember, it's only a game. If you get killed, you get a free trip to town, visibility erased and that's it. It's not like you're getting a root canal so quit stressing. Have a good day Smuggler's. I'll be seeing some of you shortly.

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You talked for so long, yet missed the point entirely. It doesn't matter why the PVE'ers want freedom to choose to PVP or not, it matters that they have every RIGHT as a subscriber to decide what role they wish to play in the game.

Better, worse, stronger, weaker, whatever! Calling us names and us calling you names doesn't change that fact that we have a right to choose whether or not we want to fight in PVP Battles.

Everything else is just personal opinions, but the right to choose is universal.

Note - Being a PVE'er does not mean being a solo'er. While many PVE'ers solo, that does not make up our entire population. I am an RPer, and I prefer to CHOOSE the people I play with, giving BHs the right to attack me takes away my right to pick the people I socialize with. Entertainers can /addignore and deny Service, same should apply for us. The right to make our own choices.

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Bryan1138 wrote:

I just want to put in a few words about three sections, overall it looks like a very good start.

1) Punishment for quasi-legal items. I would like to see fines for something quasi-legal. Of course, it depends on the nature of "quasi legal". If sliced weapons are "banned", I'm guessing weapons are "quasi legal". As one of my characters isa pure crafter and weaponsmith, I have no combat skills at all. Attacking me everytime I run from myfactory to myshop would get old real quick.

Please read my post on this topic and make comments as I have defined a breakdown on different punishments based on the contraband you are caught with. I see people have read it but no one posts but it seems I may be on the same track as you here.

2) Punishment in general. I had to give up being a rebel due to the forced PVP brought about by scanning. I don't want to engage in PVP and if you start scanning neutrals and allowingImperial players to attack neutral, non-consenting players I will cancel my account. I made this same statement way back when Q anounced the game would be zoned PVP (anyone rememberthose days?) - ie I'd leave the community -andI still hold to that philosophy.

Neutrals must be scanned or a smuggler could just go neutral and do missions with no risk. There is apossibility of using nonfactional police to do scans so you dont get a TEF though and so pople dont complain about faction farming.

3) Scanning at"bottlenecks". This is a bad, bad idea especially at starports such as Coronet. It is most likely unfeasable unless you guys are planning a major upgrade to the way your servers handle information around starports. I made the mistake of landing in Kadarra once a while ago during a scan. My computerstuttered and then locked. I wokeup deadwhen I finally rebooted and got back online. Kadaara is nowhere near as busy asCoronet, which takes about 15-20 minutes to completely load on my end and allow me to move.

I think this is doable as long as the bottlenecks are not static but placed in a random starport. This could also help clear some starports and bring business to other starports that are currently rarely used. I really feel for you with the lag as it seems more of a problem with your comp or connection and not the way the servers handle apps but I have not had that problem since I upgraded my comp.

Hope this helps,keep up the good work GM! Note: sorry for any typos, I mashed a finger and my typing is really suffering because of it.

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Message Edited by Akkori on 06-17-2004 10:51 PM