Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Sure, don't do things illegally if you don't want to be attacked, but does that mean PVE'ers won't be able to hold their own in a PC vs. NPC fight because the PVPers involved are using Highly Illegal items while the PVE'ers are using legal items to avoid being griefed?
I support being attacked by NPCs, but with the level of Griefers that this game has, I worry about the experience I would have when harassed and griefed by over zealous teens with 24 hours a day to spend tuning their little virtual Killer.
I just worry that the balance will be lost, the Empire didn't use Spice, and they still won battles. So we should be able to play this game drug free, and not be at 20% Strength compared to a Drug using PVPer at 100% Strength.
Just give us a choice, to PVP or to PVE. I'd like to be able to try any profession, and have the option to do it all PVE if I wanted to, not feel restricted that by being a (Blank) that you have to be a PVPer.
RellikCro wrote:
Your logic would also hold true of PC BH's. I doubt a PC BH is going to go after their target unbuffed with no food and not prepared.... while the PC BH has a huge precentage that they can infact find and take advantage of an inopertune time to attack.
Either side will always have its flaw but the topic wsa not about flaws in the system that we can not control but the fact of having content and consequences that both sides can agree upon and work with. And so far the majority agree that a simple flag type of system would be the best... how you get flagged is still being discussed.
Unfortunatlly, I cannot see this as being an either/or situation on bounties. If we have PvE bounties the Bounty Hunters will scream, That content is being taken away from them!!!! The JEDI will scream, we already have to put up with PCs chasing us NOW we have to worry about NPCs too!!
You have to remember that there are 2 OTHER professions involved with bounties and there is a drive to have Player bounties instituted as well (player puting contract out on another player). If there is NOT a chance for another player to have a bounty on us then the Revamp will be VERY POOR indeed. We will have very weak abilities and poor loot. The psystem of 3 teirs of illegal goods is a good one. The fact is that BOTH Smugglers and Jedi were hunted by Bounty Hunters in the movies means that we need to be as well. If there was NO Bounty Hunter Profession to begin with I would have to go with PvE solution.
If we DO NOT go with PvP possibility then I feel our Revamp is doom to failure. I believe there is a reason that GREEN MARINE brought this issue up first. If we can be "forced" into PvP he will have a good arguement to let us handle some of the BEST LOOT that SWG will see. If not then we will be no better than we are now and we will NOT have NPC Bounty Hunters after us, but "Jabba swoopers". They will NOT undermine another profession just to please us, it won't happen
(P.S. -- a flag system won't work either; unlessyou are willing to let PvPers have the better loot, since there will be NO NPC Bounty Hunters after you)
copied from previous post
Rockweaver wrote:
I love the idea of being attackable. BUT, what does this do for the PVE'er? I am all for straight forward "I am here to collect this bounty" attacking, but when PVP fails to be conscentual I have a big problem.
Sure, don't do things illegally if you don't want to be attacked, but does that mean PVE'ers won't be able to hold their own in a PC vs. NPC fight because the PVPers involved are using Highly Illegal items while the PVE'ers are using legal items to avoid being griefed?
I support being attacked by NPCs, but with the level of Griefers that this game has, I worry about the experience I would have when harassed and griefed by over zealous teens with 24 hours a day to spend tuning their little virtual Killer.
I just worry that the balance will be lost, the Empire didn't use Spice, and they still won battles. So we should be able to play this game drug free, and not be at 20% Strength compared to a Drug using PVPer at 100% Strength.
Just give us a choice, to PVP or to PVE. I'd like to be able to try any profession, and have the option to do it all PVE if I wanted to, not feel restricted that by being a (Blank) that you have to be a PVPer.
/groan
You have a very valid point but.. /points to the last 10 pages of debate
In the last fewpages here you may see a solution that you like 
RellikCro wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
SBRD0C wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Why don't you all give up this stupid bickering about forced pvp and just read my post. The solution is simple. Eliminate this stupid contraband visibility scheme and in its place use the reputation system that is explained in my post.
BTW the NPC BH idea will not work. If you make them to easy people will whine about there not being enough of a penalty for contraband visibility. If you make them to hard people will whine about having to run around everywhere buffed because a NPC BH may be lurking around ready to kill you. Besides the whole point of the BH vs Smuggler thing was for pvp roleplay. You dont need to be a smuggler to find a tough NPC to fight.
The folks that would complain bout such not being enough of a penalty would likely be the ones to get a PvP encounter (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and that would be a substantial penalty, also based on the remarks from our PvE representative here the NPCs would not be near as easy as you make them out to be.
Also, our argument here is neither 'bickering' nor is it 'stupid'I have seen very little if any flaming here other than yours.
I will correct you. What I was refering to is whether or not the NPC encounter would be survivable with or without a buff. If it is survivable without a buff then people who run around constantly buffed will have to easy a time killing or evading the NPC BH. If it is not survivable without a buff then people that do not wish to get buffed every time they play will not have a chance against the NPC BH. You can't have it both ways and one way the buffed people get off easy and the other way unbuffed people lose interest. I know that there are NPCs that are very hard to handle solo and that is part of my point. If you need to be buffed and they are still a chore to take on whatwill happen to those people who do not wish to run around with buffs all the time.
And yes your arguement is bickering (check your dictionary - all you guys do is argue back and forth with neither side willing to give in) and it is stupid because it is obviously pointless as I have yet to see either side make any ground in changing the opinion of the otherside. Also it is not flaming, I was just trying to make a point and get you guys to stop. This thread has about 2 pages of suggestions to GM on what would be good for the smuggler community and 20 pages of the two sides bickering about consentual pvp.
Your logic would also hold true of PC BH's. I doubt a PC BH is going to go after their target unbuffed with no food and not prepared.... while the PC BH has a huge precentage that they can infact find and take advantage of an inopertune time to attack.
Either side will always have its flaw but the topic wsa not about flaws in the system that we can not control but the fact of having content and consequences that both sides can agree upon and work with. And so far the majority agree that a simple flag type of system would be the best... how you get flagged is still being discussed.
Nerj wrote:
(P.S. -- a flag system won't work either; unlessyou are willing to let PvPers have the better loot, since there will be NO NPC Bounty Hunters after you)
copied from previous post
Clarification: you mean slightly better mission loot (when I say better I more or less mean more qty of spices etc) in order to offset the loot a PvE encounter would drop?
I just worry, I love my friends, and I love the game, but I really want to go back to Console Gaming when /addignore doesn't keep someone from Destroying my bike on the off chance that I got scanned Overt by a passing Shuttle of Troopers.
Geevo wrote:
I would also say ... PvP bounty ... should be 1:1 ... no BH with 19 of his friends BS.
/agree-in-strongest-possible-terms
1 BH I could maybe escape handle.. the whole mob thing though.. :shudder:
SBRD0C wrote:
Geevo wrote:
I would also say ... PvP bounty ... should be 1:1 ... no BH with 19 of his friends BS.
/agree-in-strongest-possible-terms
1 BH I could maybe escape handle.. the whole mob thing though.. :shudder:
Duckfat wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
SBRD0C wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Why don't you all give up this stupid bickering about forced pvp and just read my post. The solution is simple. Eliminate this stupid contraband visibility scheme and in its place use the reputation system that is explained in my post.
BTW the NPC BH idea will not work. If you make them to easy people will whine about there not being enough of a penalty for contraband visibility. If you make them to hard people will whine about having to run around everywhere buffed because a NPC BH may be lurking around ready to kill you. Besides the whole point of the BH vs Smuggler thing was for pvp roleplay. You dont need to be a smuggler to find a tough NPC to fight.
The folks that would complain bout such not being enough of a penalty would likely be the ones to get a PvP encounter (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and that would be a substantial penalty, also based on the remarks from our PvE representative here the NPCs would not be near as easy as you make them out to be.
Also, our argument here is neither 'bickering' nor is it 'stupid'I have seen very little if any flaming here other than yours.
I will correct you. What I was refering to is whether or not the NPC encounter would be survivable with or without a buff. If it is survivable without a buff then people who run around constantly buffed will have to easy a time killing or evading the NPC BH. If it is not survivable without a buff then people that do not wish to get buffed every time they play will not have a chance against the NPC BH. You can't have it both ways and one way the buffed people get off easy and the other way unbuffed people lose interest. I know that there are NPCs that are very hard to handle solo and that is part of my point. If you need to be buffed and they are still a chore to take on whatwill happen to those people who do not wish to run around with buffs all the time.
And yes your arguement is bickering (check your dictionary - all you guys do is argue back and forth with neither side willing to give in) and it is stupid because it is obviously pointless as I have yet to see either side make any ground in changing the opinion of the otherside. Also it is not flaming, I was just trying to make a point and get you guys to stop. This thread has about 2 pages of suggestions to GM on what would be good for the smuggler community and 20 pages of the two sides bickering about consentual pvp.
Your logic would also hold true of PC BH's. I doubt a PC BH is going to go after their target unbuffed with no food and not prepared.... while the PC BH has a huge precentage that they can infact find and take advantage of an inopertune time to attack.
Either side will always have its flaw but the topic wsa not about flaws in the system that we can not control but the fact of having content and consequences that both sides can agree upon and work with. And so far the majority agree that a simple flag type of system would be the best... how you get flagged is still being discussed.
The flaw occurs when you try to develop a pve and a pvp method to the bounties. If you wanted high end npcs to kill there are many already out there. This bounty system was something that players have asked for (maybe not you personally and maybe not the way you envisioned it) to get BH and smuggler to interact as part of a smuggler mission with BH bounties for failure. Therefore it should be designed as pvp. And if you would read some of the other suggestions (mainly mine) instead of writing 20 pages of replies to each other there are very good solutions to this without making it nonconsentual pvp.
The flag system that you talk about is not really a penalty for a player that just wants to make an easy buck. If that was me I could just take the pve way and there is not an AI that the devs could code that couldbother me without being a complete nuisance to every other smuggler player to the point where no one will want to do pve and still complain about pvp.
well it has been pretty much agreed upon in the last 10 pages that ALL playstyles do in fact need to be respected and that does include pure PvE. All you are doing is extended a debate that was pretty much cleared up and refocusing on it instead of solutions to respect all sides.
10%, if even that, of playerbase actualy reads these forums so while you may say "all" or "most" smugglers what you are really saying is most of the smugglers that have POSTED here would like that. Well alot more smuggles are posting now because of the forced PvP concept that was being talked about and as it gets closer and more is known and it truely would look like that then you will get even more posters and means the game is made of over 90% PvE'ers I would assume it be much better to try to work with this playstyle then against it.
In the end we all want to play a fun game, but that will only happen when we can start respecting each other and how we play the game.
SBRD0C wrote:
Nerj wrote:
(P.S. -- a flag system won't work either; unlessyou are willing to let PvPers have the better loot, since there will be NO NPC Bounty Hunters after you)
copied from previous post
Clarification: you mean slightly better mission loot (when I say better I more or less mean more qty of spices etc) in order to offset the loot a PvE encounter would drop?
More quanity, better quality, Phat Loot --[ Krayt Pearls, NS Vibro Motors, smuggler tools ( lets you into BH terms, better slices, etc.), New and undiscovered ?]
ALL BANNED ITEMS
P.S. -- Remember that our revamp will takes place after the Combat Balance, GCW revamp, and JTL. Who knows how these things will affect us.
Ahh phat loot.. well I would have no problem with that as a PvPers.. but suppose the BH NPCs would drop this kind ofphat loot too? if not seems kind of overkill to compensate us for not being able to loot them... would kinda make BH NPC Farming show up though.. and thats just wrong...
Nerj wrote:
More quanity, better quality, Phat Loot --[ Krayt Pearls, NS Vibro Motors, smuggler tools ( lets you into BH terms, better slices, etc.), New and undiscovered ?]
ALL BANNED ITEMS
P.S. -- Remember that our revamp will takes place after the Combat Balance, GCW revamp, and JTL. Who knows how these things will affect us.