Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
GreenMarine wrote:
The game's "visibility" system will be expanded. Any player can now accumulate small amounts of visibility for a contraband infraction. The amount of visibility will be dependent on the severity of the infraction.
Message Edited by dewolow on 06-20-2004 01:17 PM
Rockweaver wrote:
You talked for so long, yet missed the point entirely. It doesn't matter why the PVE'ers want freedom to choose to PVP or not, it matters that they have every RIGHT as a subscriber to decide what role they wish to play in the game.
Better, worse, stronger, weaker, whatever! Calling us names and us calling you names doesn't change that fact that we have a right to choose whether or not we want to fight in PVP Battles.
Everything else is just personal opinions, but the right to choose is universal.
Note - Being a PVE'er does not mean being a solo'er. While many PVE'ers solo, that does not make up our entire population. I am an RPer, and I prefer to CHOOSE the people I play with, giving BHs the right to attack me takes away my right to pick the people I socialize with. Entertainers can /addignore and deny Service, same should apply for us. The right to make our own choices.
Exactly what I feel... I am also big into RP'ing and I try to get my customers into it also. Though I do respect their playstyle even ingame and as long as they dont speak l337 (only because I have no idea what is being said) I am willing to do biz with them. But means i am a rp'er you will never see me slicing in front of a starport, I will always be in a corner, tucked away in the back of a cantina, or meeting someone in the middle of nowhere to do the slicing.
I personally do not sell spice but that is purely because it is part of my RP Character.
The right to choose is iniversal.
I'm not sure what you mean by pvp / pve playstyles. If you mean pvp playstyle is the trash talking immature type then you don't really have much to worry about. I don't look at it as opportunities to pvp. I have no reason to kill another player unless I'm being paid. Very simple. I look at it as a chance to interact and PLAY THE GAME with other people. If I wanted to be chased by npc's I wouldn't be playing an mmo.
As far as neutrality is concerned, my BH is neutral and can hunt factioned jedi with no problem as long as I have a bounty. Neutrality is not something you can hide behind when you are breaking the law.
GuntherSlag wrote:
I don't think you got the complete message of my post. I am trying to tell you that those type of people will NOT be the ones hunting you. PvP types won't touch the Investigation tree so they won't be able to take the missions. Please understand this. I don't pvp much at all. They only time I do is when I take jedi missions. This is rare because they are rarely on the terminal. I spend most of my time chasing phantom npc marks. Master BH's usually hunt alone and rarely speak to you at all. In fact many of them roleplay their character's quite well. Does this sound like pvp types to you?
I'm not sure what you mean by pvp / pve playstyles. If you mean pvp playstyle is the trash talking immature type then you don't really have much to worry about. I don't look at it as opportunities to pvp. I have no reason to kill another player unless I'm being paid. Very simple. I look at it as a chance to interact and PLAY THE GAME with other people. If I wanted to be chased by npc's I wouldn't be playing an mmo.
As far as neutrality is concerned, my BH is neutral and can hunt factioned jedi with no problem as long as I have a bounty. Neutrality is not something you can hide behind when you are breaking the law.
Hunted at all is still HUNTED.
The Right to Choose Is Universal.
^^Start putting this on everything^^
Jhovial wrote:
>>I hate peanutbutter, those that also hate peanutbutter would never eat peanutbutter.... where is the logic in that?<<
Ahh but what if peanutbutter was found to cure cancer. Even if you hated it would you eat it anyways?
Now it is entirely possible for someone that hates PvP to see that it could have merits in the game that go beyond their own likes and dislikes. This is the logic. This is how someone can hate something, but still be for it. So again I say let him have his opinions and don't force yours on him.
Now please do not attack the comparison of PvP in the game akin to a cure for cancer, I was merely using that as an example. Im not saying PvP is the only answer, but let others have their own opinions. You have no right to say how others must feel.
You actualy made me laugh... I was thinking... Damn I am going to die of cancer then 
lol
I see the merits of PvP.. even beyond my personal feelings that is why I support PvP in the game though I hate is personaly with a passion. But with that said no one should ever be put in a situation where they will be forced into a PvP confrontation... we all play and pay this game the same... no one is better and no one is worse. We are equal and thus we all need to have our playstyles respected.
PvE has just as much of importance as PvP does. It allows a broad range of playstyles to enjoy the samegame with each other. But you can acheive the same level of "suspense" in both PvE and PvP... in fact I dont feel "suspense" or "thrill" at all when I think of a good combat PvP person (even if he was the most polite and caring RP'er in existance)..... All I think of is how it just ruined my game play, game play I paid just as much as everyone else paid to play. PvP is not imersion for me... RP is imersion.
GuntherSlag wrote:
I don't think you got the complete message of my post. I am trying to tell you that those type of people will NOT be the ones hunting you. PvP types won't touch the Investigation tree so they won't be able to take the missions. Please understand this. I don't pvp much at all. They only time I do is when I take jedi missions. This is rare because they are rarely on the terminal. I spend most of my time chasing phantom npc marks. Master BH's usually hunt alone and rarely speak to you at all. In fact many of them roleplay their character's quite well. Does this sound like pvp types to you?
I'm not sure what you mean by pvp / pve playstyles. If you mean pvp playstyle is the trash talking immature type then you don't really have much to worry about. I don't look at it as opportunities to pvp. I have no reason to kill another player unless I'm being paid. Very simple. I look at it as a chance to interact and PLAY THE GAME with other people. If I wanted to be chased by npc's I wouldn't be playing an mmo.
As far as neutrality is concerned, my BH is neutral and can hunt factioned jedi with no problem as long as I have a bounty. Neutrality is not something you can hide behind when you are breaking the law.
Umm...sometimes I wonder if we're playing the same game.
I never called anyone names, nor did I tell anyone how to play. Many of you are blinded by something, but I haven't a clue what. Nor am I going to spend anymore time trying to find out.
I simply wanted to offer a different perspective. But I see misconceptions are hard to change and will leave you with them.
I thought of all people the Smuggler's would understand that this game represents a place full of danger and intrigue. How a BH hunting you after you've committed multiple crimes is considered ruining your gameplay is beyond me. If it bothers you that much, then why on earth are you playing criminals????
Maybe you guys should be entertainers or something. I expect this kind of reaction from them. I can see the **edit** really hitting the fan when some AFK Dancer is killed because she had a sliced blaster hidden in her leotard
And you're absolutely right you have the right to choose. You have the right to choose NOT to slice weapons or carry illegal contraband. You can choose to live a life free of crime. A life that is blissful and happy and clean.
The devs will never make everyone happy. That's impossible. I'm just glad that the majority of players don't ever read these forums. It's too damn depressing. I'm going to go meet them in the game and enjoy myself. Have fun kiddies and don't do anything that might get you killed.
edit for above post... BH's like myself are NOT the minority. Do you play Bounty Hunter? Do you know the community on your server? I have played BH since Beta and I can speak from great experience to say that Master Bounty Hunter's who stay Master's will not be the pvp monster's that are being described. Your perception is clowded by false assumptions. I have an idea. Next time you see a Master BH go and talk to him. Ask him what he thinks about the contraband system. He is in just as much danger of landing on the terminals as you are. Everyone will be. I bet you that when you're done talking to him, you'll feel better about the whole thing. Of course, don't mention the bugs in the system, there I offer no guarantees.
Message Edited by GuntherSlag on 06-17-2004 10:41 PM
GuntherSlag wrote:
I don't think you got the complete message of my post. I am trying to tell you that those type of people will NOT be the ones hunting you. PvP types won't touch the Investigation tree so they won't be able to take the missions. Please understand this. I don't pvp much at all. They only time I do is when I take jedi missions. This is rare because they are rarely on the terminal. I spend most of my time chasing phantom npc marks. Master BH's usually hunt alone and rarely speak to you at all. In fact many of them roleplay their character's quite well. Does this sound like pvp types to you?
I'm not sure what you mean by pvp / pve playstyles. If you mean pvp playstyle is the trash talking immature type then you don't really have much to worry about. I don't look at it as opportunities to pvp. I have no reason to kill another player unless I'm being paid. Very simple. I look at it as a chance to interact and PLAY THE GAME with other people. If I wanted to be chased by npc's I wouldn't be playing an mmo.
As far as neutrality is concerned, my BH is neutral and can hunt factioned jedi with no problem as long as I have a bounty. Neutrality is not something you can hide behind when you are breaking the law.
No but it should determine WHO will come after you. By being neutral you have told SWG and SOE without a doubt you wish not to participate in PvP. So yes.. being neutral does not exclude ya from illegal activities but it sure the heck should not force you into a playstyle you have expressed no interest in.
RellikCro wrote:
Nerj wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
Your logic would also hold true of PC BH's. I doubt a PC BH is going to go after their target unbuffed with no food and not prepared.... while the PC BH has a huge precentage that they can infact find and take advantage of an inopertune time to attack.
Either side will always have its flaw but the topic wsa not about flaws in the system that we can not control but the fact of having content and consequences that both sides can agree upon and work with. And so far the majority agree that a simple flag type of system would be the best... how you get flagged is still being discussed.
Unfortunatlly, I cannot see this as being an either/or situation on bounties. If we have PvE bounties the Bounty Hunters will scream, That content is being taken away from them!!!! The JEDI will scream, we already have to put up with PCs chasing us NOW we have to worry about NPCs too!! <-- This is not something I posted, so please do not quote me as saying such. <-- The system will be same for both, there will NOT be separate visabillity systems, this would be a side effect of having BH NPCs
You have to remember that there are 2 OTHER professions involved with bounties and there is a drive to have Player bounties instituted as well (player puting contract out on another player). If there is NOT a chance for another player to have a bounty on us then the Revamp will be VERY POOR indeed. We will have very weak abilities and poor loot. The psystem of 3 teirs of illegal goods is a good one. The fact is that BOTH Smugglers and Jedi were hunted by Bounty Hunters in the movies means that we need to be as well. If there was NO Bounty Hunter Profession to begin with I would have to go with PvE solution.
If we DO NOT go with PvP possibility then I feel our Revamp is doom to failure. I believe there is a reason that GREEN MARINE brought this issue up first. If we can be "forced" into PvP he will have a good arguement to let us handle some of the BEST LOOT that SWG will see. If not then we will be no better than we are now and we will NOT have NPC Bounty Hunters after us, but "Jabba swoopers". They will NOT undermine another profession just to please us, it won't happen
(P.S. -- a flag system won't work either; unlessyou are willing to let PvPers have the better loot, since there will be NO NPC Bounty Hunters after you)
copied from previous post
I do in fact know about BH's and their drive to get player bounties and I also am quite aware what SOE has stated on player bounties "We will never force PvP onto the playerbase" and this is why Player bounties have never been introduced.
They also stated that the game would be for the casual player too and yet we have 2 dungeons and the FRS system which is strictlly for the UBER power gamers
Take a look around you, (in my own experience) 90% of the playerbase cares not for PvP or the GCW (mostly because it only can be done thru PvP) and are casual pve based players. Even SWG own astrometric support this with showing only a 1% overt rating in the last astrometrics.
AND the DEVS are pushing to have more involvement in the GCW, hence the GCW revamp BEFORE ours. By the way this means more PvP not less.
If player bounties and/or smuggler bounties were inacted that forced PvP unconsentually (in other words neutrals) then you would defiantely see an increase of pve'ers posting on the forums and it will turn into another panic fix like what happened with the "awesome" artisian "upgrade" that was placed and then imediately taken out.
Maybe yes - maybe No, the response maybe see your local smuggler to get you off the terminals. Like we DO have Death Decay even after pages and pages of protests. We have IDers that are the ONLY ones that can change your stats (changed from the begining). These things are NOT going to change even after all the protests.
I am all for PvP Bounties as long as there is a choice, as long as everyone can play the game to the fullest and still have a choice. I do not yell "take away any kind of PvP" so why do you insist on tell me that I can no longer enjoy the game without being thrown into PvP?
I am NOT, what I am stating is that the HIGHER RISK of PvP which is a small percentage of players, as you point out, get a HIGHER REWARD
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 11:49 PM
GuntherSlag wrote:
So you're saying you don't want the NPC BH's either???
Umm...sometimes I wonder if we're playing the same game.
I never called anyone names, nor did I tell anyone how to play. Many of you are blinded by something, but I haven't a clue what. Nor am I going to spend anymore time trying to find out.
I simply wanted to offer a different perspective. But I see misconceptions are hard to change and will leave you with them.
I thought of all people the Smuggler's would understand that this game represents a place full of danger and intrigue. How a BH hunting you after you've committed multiple crimes is considered ruining your gameplay is beyond me. If it bothers you that much, then why on earth are you playing criminals????
Maybe you guys should be entertainers or something. I expect this kind of reaction from them. I can see the **edit** really hitting the fan when some AFK Dancer is killed because she had a sliced blaster hidden in her leotard
And you're absolutely right you have the right to choose. You have the right to choose NOT to slice weapons or carry illegal contraband. You can choose to live a life free of crime. A life that is blissful and happy and clean.
The devs will never make everyone happy. That's impossible. I'm just glad that the majority of players don't ever read these forums. It's too damn depressing. I'm going to go meet them in the game and enjoy myself. Have fun kiddies and don't do anything that might get you killed.
I am getting really tired of your opinions displayed as some Intellectualy Superior ground. Let me lay this out for you very simply.
1) being hunted by another PLAYER means that player can attack you any way they choose, when they choose, and with as many friends as they bring with them (as is currently).
2) PVE'ers Choose their company, and do not want the game to decide who they interact with. If I go out of my way to /addignore the people I would otherwise just get into arguments with, and avoid getting involved in big player conflicts, I don't want those things that I avoid to be forced onto me by a game system.
3) "Well don't use it" is not an excuse because that limits the potential Power of a PVE'er simply because they choose not to fight other players. You should not be able to attack a Kimogila better than I can, simply because you also fight other players. The use of Contraband would give you an advantage over PVE'ers who decided to protect themselves from potential griefing.
4) We do not mind being attacked by NPCs, we are all for that. NPCs follow set rules laid down by the Devs, while players find ways of exploiting and expanding the potentials of a class to suit their Griefing Needs. We do not hate PVPers, we just CHOOSE to play with others.
Choice is Universal.
Nerj wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
I do in fact know about BH's and their drive to get player bounties and I also am quite aware what SOE has stated on player bounties "We will never force PvP onto the playerbase" and this is why Player bounties have never been introduced.
They also stated that the game would be for the casual player too and yet we have 2 dungeons and the FRS system which is strictlly for the UBER power gamers
The game has alot of content for casual gamers but they must also provide content for the hardcore players as well. This goes back to respecting each playstyle.
Take a look around you, (in my own experience) 90% of the playerbase cares not for PvP or the GCW (mostly because it only can be done thru PvP) and are casual pve based players. Even SWG own astrometric support this with showing only a 1% overt rating in the last astrometrics.
AND the DEVS are pushing to have more involvement in the GCW, hence the GCW revamp BEFORE ours. By the way this means more PvP not less.
Yes, they have stated that artisians, entertainers, and others will be more involved in the GCW but you must of missed them also stating this will be non-pvp content. SOE, not the devs, have mandated nonconsentual pvp... some speculate it was Lucas but without evidence it is all just rumors. Regardless it has been stated without question that PvP will only be implimented in a consentual way.
If player bounties and/or smuggler bounties were inacted that forced PvP unconsentually (in other words neutrals) then you would defiantely see an increase of pve'ers posting on the forums and it will turn into another panic fix like what happened with the "awesome" artisian "upgrade" that was placed and then imediately taken out.
Maybe yes - maybe No, the response maybe see your local smuggler to get you off the terminals. Like we DO have Death Decay even after pages and pages of protests. We have IDers that are the ONLY ones that can change your stats (changed from the begining). These things are NOT going to change even after all the protests.
The difference between death decay, ID stat changes and PvP particpation is that the prior two were not taken out or put in but were already there. They changed who can perform it and how fast it decays because MORE ppl were complaining that items did not decay enough and if you want to get technical WE DID in fact have an impact on decay greatly by drastically reducing the amount. Plus it also gave somekind of "sting" to death that was being explioted simply for a "fast ticket home". So they patched an expliot (expliot just means using a system in such a way that it was not originally intended to be used) which is a must and something we all should cheer them for doing.
So yes, they do listen. They may not always do what you personaly want but they do indeed listen and we have indeed changed the game as players. Take the Artisian system that was put into place and they put alot of resources into... taken out the next day.
I am all for PvP Bounties as long as there is a choice, as long as everyone can play the game to the fullest and still have a choice. I do not yell "take away any kind of PvP" so why do you insist on tell me that I can no longer enjoy the game without being thrown into PvP?
I am NOT, what I am stating is that the HIGHER RISK of PvP which is a small percentage of players, as you point out, get a HIGHER REWARD
You are stating in your opinion that PvP has a higher risk, I am stating as my opinion the risk is not higher but just more annoying and gaem ruining. My playstyle is hardcore PvE, I deserve the very same rewards that a hardcore PvP player has... after all we both pay our monthly payment the same. We both bought the game, we both shell out the manhours per week... you are not in anyway more special then I am.
P.S. -- You do not have to be in PvP to be affected by jerks. There are plenty of players that can drag PvE MOBS on top of you and then laugh at you
Yes I totaly agree. This problem is not PvE or PvP related it is a common grief by all playstyles and at times purely inocent. But I am not forced to engage that person and I can easily add him/her to /addignore and either deal with the mobs or run for it. I have yet to see anyone successfully /addignore a PvP'er coming after them and not be affected by them. If such a feature was added I would be more willing to agree to your PvP terms.
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 11:49 PM
GuntherSlag wrote:
I thought of all people the Smuggler's would understand that this game represents a place full of danger and intrigue. How a BH hunting you after you've committed multiple crimes is considered ruining your gameplay is beyond me. If it bothers you that much, then why on earth are you playing criminals????
Danger Yes, forced PvP no. We are not afraid to dye, hunt, be hunted, or partake in battle... but that does not mean we want to partake in PvP.
Maybe you guys should be entertainers or something. I expect this kind of reaction from them. I can see the **edit** really hitting the fan when some AFK Dancer is killed because she had a sliced blaster hidden in her leotard
So now not only are PvE'ers a lower class then you (just my interpretation of your words and language) but entertainers are now also "below" you. We represent the largest group of players on the servers, over 90% last count... the casual gamers and RP'ers. Entertainers are a huge social group in the game, you may not like their playstyle, it may seem odd or even "stupid" to you but your not the one playing it so it dont have to be your "cup of tea". But you do need to respect that type of playstyle.
And you're absolutely right you have the right to choose. You have the right to choose NOT to slice weapons or carry illegal contraband. You can choose to live a life free of crime. A life that is blissful and happy and clean.
My profession is largely based on slicing and spice, I am a hardcore PvE'er, I deman to be respected as such. I, nor any other PvE'er I have seen posting here, wants a life free of crime and punishment.. in fact most of them have said right out they would enjoy beefed up mobs, tougher missions, and consequences for slicing. But they also want it done in their playstyle! Some are for pure hardcore PvE, some a mix of PvE and PvP, and others hardcore PvP.... there have been some very good suggestions on how to easily incorperate a system that would be beneficial to ALL playstyles. It was appeasing to alot of the more outspoken PvE'ers in this thread and alot of the PvP'ers alike. Hopefully one of these solutions can be a reality so we all can enjoy the game we pay to play.
The devs will never make everyone happy. That's impossible. I'm just glad that the majority of players don't ever read these forums. It's too damn depressing. I'm going to go meet them in the game and enjoy myself. Have fun kiddies and don't do anything that might get you killed.
You are right, the devs will never make everyone happy... their job is to compromise and impliment systems that will be beneficial to the largest player base.