Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Geevo wrote:
How about something as simple as:
A Smuggler walks into Jabba's palace for some missions. He sees two rooms (PvP & PvE) ... the Smuggler takes a mission and that is what determines the consequences of failure.
Essentially the same missions ... but describe the rooms in a manner that conveys PvP (Failure will result in a Bounty for any BH) or PvE (Failure will result in one of Jabbas BH after you)
SBRD0C wrote:
Geevo wrote:
How about something as simple as:
A Smuggler walks into Jabba's palace for some missions. He sees two rooms (PvP & PvE) ... the Smuggler takes a mission and that is what determines the consequences of failure.
Essentially the same missions ... but describe the rooms in a manner that conveys PvP (Failure will result in a Bounty for any BH) or PvE (Failure will result in one of Jabbas BH after you)
That covers mission visibilty fine, but not contraband visibility, so a combination of the two kinds of missions PvE vs PvP and the flag seems to still be what is needed
So MIssion ... do something like 2 rooms (or 1 room with an option from the NPC because we don't want terminals...right?)
Contraband ... looks at recent MIssions or playstyle? If you fight PvE all the time, but want a PvP ... do PvP Smuggler missions and that will lock you into PvP Bounties.
Default setting: PvE
Example...
SmugglerPvE does everything PvE, but wants PvP Bounties so he/she/it does one PvP Smuggler mission out of Jabba's Palace and goes back to PvE missions on Endor. As the visibility increases, he/she/it gets a PvP Player Bounty because they did the PvP Mission which changed the setting. The BH kills SmugglerPvE and Smuggler PvE decides that he/she/it does not like Player Bounties, so they proceed back to Jabba's ... do a PvE Smuggler mission ... setting changed back to PvE.
Geevo wrote:
So MIssion ... do something like 2 rooms (or 1 room with an option from the NPC because we don't want terminals...right?)
Contraband ... looks at recent MIssions or playstyle? If you fight PvE all the time, but want a PvP ... do PvP Smuggler missions and that will lock you into PvP Bounties.
Default setting: PvE
Example...
SmugglerPvE does everything PvE, but wants PvP Bounties so he/she/it does one PvP Smuggler mission out of Jabba's Palace and goes back to PvE missions on Endor. As the visibility increases, he/she/it gets a PvP Player Bounty because they did the PvP Mission which changed the setting. The BH kills SmugglerPvE and Smuggler PvE decides that he/she/it does not like Player Bounties, so they proceed back to Jabba's ... do a PvE Smuggler mission ... setting changed back to PvE.
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-17-2004 05:58 PM
Unfortunatlly, I cannot see this as being an either/or situation on bountys. If we have PvE bounties the Bounty Hunters will scream, That content is being taken away from them!!!! The JEDI will scream, we already have to put up with PC chasing us NOW we have to worry about NPC too!!
You have to remember that there are 2 OTHER professions involved with bounties and there is a drive to have Player bounties instituted as well (player puting contract out on another player). If there is NOT a chance for another player to have a bounty on us then the Revamp will be VERY POOR indeed. We will have very weak abilities and poor loot. The perposed system of 3 teirs of illegal goods is a good one. The fact is that BOTH Smugglers and Jedi were hunted by Bounty Hunters in the movies means that we need to be as well. If there was NO Bounty Hunter Profession to begin with I would have to go with PvE solution.
If we DO NOT go with PvP possibility then I feel our Revamp is doom to failure. I believe there is a reason that GREEN MARINE brought this issue up first. If we can be "forced" into PvP he will have a good arguement to let us handle some of the BEST LOOT that SWG will see. If not then we will be no better than we are now and we will NOT have NPC Bounty Hunters after us, but "Jabba swoopers". They will NOT undermine another profession just to please us, it won't happen
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 09:17 PM
SBRD0C wrote:
Geevo wrote:
So MIssion ... do something like 2 rooms (or 1 room with an option from the NPC because we don't want terminals...right?)
Contraband ... looks at recent MIssions or playstyle? If you fight PvE all the time, but want a PvP ... do PvP Smuggler missions and that will lock you into PvP Bounties.
Default setting: PvE
Example...
SmugglerPvE does everything PvE, but wants PvP Bounties so he/she/it does one PvP Smuggler mission out of Jabba's Palace and goes back to PvE missions on Endor. As the visibility increases, he/she/it gets a PvP Player Bounty because they did the PvP Mission which changed the setting. The BH kills SmugglerPvE and Smuggler PvE decides that he/she/it does not like Player Bounties, so they proceed back to Jabba's ... do a PvE Smuggler mission ... setting changed back to PvE.
Essentially... Yep.. thats the whole system in anutshell. of course if i understand GMs post visibility would also apply to non smugglers. so for them:
Default setting: PvE
Engaging in PvP switches the bounties for visibilty to PvP. All the same really. short simple, shoudn't even be too hard to code it all depends on one simple Boolean(yes/no for you non programmers/mathmeticians) value that the sytem checks against when visibility reachs the critical point.
I actually like that idea. It would give PvE'ers a chance to taste if they like PvP without being locked into PvP permantely. So like you said you choose a pvp mission and fail and find it not to your taste after fighting the PC BH you can go back and revert to PvE and be happy.
Also those that do like PvP find they, for any reason, want a break or also fill the PvP aspect is not to their licking they too could also go back to PvE based play.
It seems to me that the PvE system that most are calling for would take a lot of time to code as most of it seems like stuff that isn't currently in the game. In comparison, the system with PC BH could probably be easily be adapted from the Jedi visability system. End result? Smuggler Revamp sooner, with more various features vs them spending all their time coding a whole new system for dropping a npc bh on a smuggler no matter where they are and also making sure he's balanced to whatever level the smuggler is as well. I have no idea about coding but that is something that occured to me that seems logical.
SBRD0C wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Why don't you all give up this stupid bickering about forced pvp and just read my post. The solution is simple. Eliminate this stupid contraband visibility scheme and in its place use the reputation system that is explained in my post.
BTW the NPC BH idea will not work. If you make them to easy people will whine about there not being enough of a penalty for contraband visibility. If you make them to hard people will whine about having to run around everywhere buffed because a NPC BH may be lurking around ready to kill you. Besides the whole point of the BH vs Smuggler thing was for pvp roleplay. You dont need to be a smuggler to find a tough NPC to fight.
The folks that would complain bout such not being enough of a penalty would likely be the ones to get a PvP encounter (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and that would be a substantial penalty, also based on the remarks from our PvE representative here the NPCs would not be near as easy as you make them out to be.
Also, our argument here is neither 'bickering' nor is it 'stupid'I have seen very little if any flaming here other than yours.
DrakoonShao wrote:
Well before I start out my post let me give some background. My character's only combat skills are those I've gained through the Smuggler tree (and the prereqs) and one-handed 1-3. All my other points are devoted to crafting since I'm also a DE. I'm pretty much a casual player and don't have the credits to devote to top of the line equipment. Needless to say I would probably have no chance of surviving against an actual player bounty hunter.This is also one of the same reasons I don't like to PvP. I have gotten accidentally sucked in a couple times though. I'm a Rebel purely so I can shoot stormtroopers when they try to scan me if I should choose to do so. In doing this I've gotten ganked a couple times by PC Imps, I didn't last long. It's something I accept as a risk for actually playing myself as a Smuggler.
Despite my combat shortcomings, I can pretty much take down any NPC I run into as long as I play it smart and use all my skills at my disposal (Did I mention I'm hardly ever buffed and practically never wear armor ?). From this outlook I can honestlysay that I believethe reward for escaping/defeating a player BH should be greater. NO game has ever had an AI that rivals a real human player. They usually have to cheat and do stuff like make them never miss or have instantaneous reaction times. If they tried to make NPC BH the equal to PC ones, I honestly believe that they would end up being something like the Super Battle Droids in the dungeons or people would always figure a sure fire way to beat them. Therefore I think that that there is no contest that the reward for those who fend off the pc BH should easily be greater than those who do the same to NPC one. This is from someone that hates PvP.
Just another thought from someone who hates PvP. I would have no problem if it did end up being only pc bh that came after smugglers with marks on them. Simply make it so that handling contraband is considered consenting to PvP. I know some might not like this, even I would have to rethink my desire to be a smuggler and I've been one forever. Sliced weapons, spice, and other contrabandare NOT required. You can get by just fine in a PvE world without it. Sure you won't be soloing Krayts (and other "uber" creatures) but you're not supposed to do that anyway. I never wear armor unless I'm going into a dungeonand have run around with unsliced weapons before. I still survived and everyone else could too. Just put the warning on contraband (and since the Smuggler profession deals in contraband it would be a given for the profession) "Possession of and dealing in Contraband opens you up for the possiblity of attack by law enforcement or Bounty Hunters". That would make the PvP consentual, plain and simple. Currently, contraband is a luxury item with no real risks. If you change that and make contraband what it's really supposed to be, people will complain a bit do to the change, but will get used to it. There has to be a risk, that's what smuggler is all about.
Finally, for people like RellikCro and others thatact likeyou are speaking for all PvE'rs, please remember that you DO NOT actually speak for all PvE players. You are offering YOUR point of view as PvE player, don't claim or act likeit's everyone's from a set playstyle. Hopefully my post will show that not all PvE players think in the way that some are acting like we do.
Oh yeah, one final final thing
I actually stated several times I do not speak for any other PvE'ers, but if you truely do hate PvP then you will not want PvP added in. If you do then you do not hate pvp you must at least like it or you are completely contridicting yourself. You can play PvE all day long and not participate in PvP at all and stil like it.
But I and yes others that have posted hate PvP and we are working on a way to respect all playstyles not just yours or mine but everyones and to do that you have to provide content for all playstyles in their respective playstyle. PvE, Mixed, and PvP.
DrakoonShao wrote:
Oh yeah, one final final thing
Daker-Naritus wrote:
This is pretty naive if you ask me. On a given night, I hop on, frequent 2-3 of my favorite hunting spots (note: different planets), play for 2-3 hours, and log off.
Casual players will not get the same kind of gameplay as those who play a lot. Its too bad SOE doesn't make people pay a sliding fee until they get to 10 hours, and no increase after 10 hours a week. THis way, your choice/limitation to play so few hours would be reflected in your checkbook. But regardless, you will not have access to all the perks and opportunities that the people who play more than you get.
There are a couple of thimgs I can tell you from my experience:
(1) I will not spend 10 minutes searching around the star port for a smuggler each and every time I want to planet hop. In fact I won't even do that once a night. That 10 minutes isOVER 5% of my play time each night. To me, it is not worth it own a sliced anything if I am going to be harassed for having it or need a smuggler simply to go to a different planet.
So dont use sliced items. You get that suit sliced *one* time by *one* SMuggler, and thats it. I doubt the Smuggler profession is going to crumble from losing out on that income.
(2) If owning sliced items interfere with my planet hopping in any way, I will either (a) not hire a smuggler at all and run through the checkpoint, or (b) not carry sliced items. Neither of those options (both of which you are advocating) fix anything for smuggler. If you are saying those are viable options, you are hurting the smuggler profession.
<points at last comment>
A 30% increase in damage is NOT worth spending 10 minutesand 10k+ credits just so I can blow up some pikits on Dath orBluurgs on Endor.Even a50% increase isn't worth it. I'm sorry, but it's not
I agree, its not worth it....for you. PvP'ers are known to pay insane credits for an extra 3 points of damage.
The only 2 responses you can have is:
(1) "Fine don't use sliced items." My response: Fine enjoy your revamp that still gives you nothing to smuggle. Nothing of *yours* to Smuggle.
(2) "The damage increases are going to be so great you will want to have a smuggler take them." My response: Absolutely positively wrong. No gun or armor of any quality is worth wasting 10 minutes of my time looking for a smuggler every single time I want to planet hop. I don't have to have that damage increase to get by, and the rare circumstances when Imight needneedthe extra damagewill come so rarely that it will provide you with no market whatsoever. Enjoy your revamp that still gives you nothing to smuggle. <see last comment>
Honestly, buddy...you need to lose the self-rightous attitude and consider other opinions. You can argue that other posters are "babies" and "whiners" all night long. Fact remains: They pay the same fee you do, and have just as much right to a good time. Your good time should not be enhanced at the expense of theirs...PERIOD.
Right back at ya babe. Your gameplay should not continue to be enhanced at the continued expense of the other profesisons. This revamp is going to make the game *fun* for a large group of players who have suffered a long time.
If you want to post constructively, why not try coming up with middle ground that will both (1) give smugglers a role and (2) not annoy the crap out of others. That is something that will be useful to GM. You saying "deal with it you big baby" is certainly not.
Is there a middle group for you, personally? Will you accept *anything* at all that will end up changing how you play the game? Or are you so set in your ways that *nothing* can be better if it will make you do anything different?
Duckfat wrote:
SBRD0C wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Why don't you all give up this stupid bickering about forced pvp and just read my post. The solution is simple. Eliminate this stupid contraband visibility scheme and in its place use the reputation system that is explained in my post.
BTW the NPC BH idea will not work. If you make them to easy people will whine about there not being enough of a penalty for contraband visibility. If you make them to hard people will whine about having to run around everywhere buffed because a NPC BH may be lurking around ready to kill you. Besides the whole point of the BH vs Smuggler thing was for pvp roleplay. You dont need to be a smuggler to find a tough NPC to fight.
The folks that would complain bout such not being enough of a penalty would likely be the ones to get a PvP encounter (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and that would be a substantial penalty, also based on the remarks from our PvE representative here the NPCs would not be near as easy as you make them out to be.
Also, our argument here is neither 'bickering' nor is it 'stupid'I have seen very little if any flaming here other than yours.
I will correct you. What I was refering to is whether or not the NPC encounter would be survivable with or without a buff. If it is survivable without a buff then people who run around constantly buffed will have to easy a time killing or evading the NPC BH. If it is not survivable without a buff then people that do not wish to get buffed every time they play will not have a chance against the NPC BH. You can't have it both ways and one way the buffed people get off easy and the other way unbuffed people lose interest. I know that there are NPCs that are very hard to handle solo and that is part of my point. If you need to be buffed and they are still a chore to take on whatwill happen to those people who do not wish to run around with buffs all the time.
And yes your arguement is bickering (check your dictionary - all you guys do is argue back and forth with neither side willing to give in) and it is stupid because it is obviously pointless as I have yet to see either side make any ground in changing the opinion of the otherside. Also it is not flaming, I was just trying to make a point and get you guys to stop. This thread has about 2 pages of suggestions to GM on what would be good for the smuggler community and 20 pages of the two sides bickering about consentual pvp.
Your logic would also hold true of PC BH's. I doubt a PC BH is going to go after their target unbuffed with no food and not prepared.... while the PC BH has a huge precentage that they can infact find and take advantage of an inopertune time to attack.
Either side will always have its flaw but the topic wsa not about flaws in the system that we can not control but the fact of having content and consequences that both sides can agree upon and work with. And so far the majority agree that a simple flag type of system would be the best... how you get flagged is still being discussed.
Akkori wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
This is pretty naive if you ask me. On a given night, I hop on, frequent 2-3 of my favorite hunting spots (note: different planets), play for 2-3 hours, and log off.
Casual players will not get the same kind of gameplay as those who play a lot. Its too bad SOE doesn't make people pay a sliding fee until they get to 10 hours, and no increase after 10 hours a week. THis way, your choice/limitation to play so few hours would be reflected in your checkbook. But regardless, you will not have access to all the perks and opportunities that the people who play more than you get.
There are a couple of thimgs I can tell you from my experience:
(1) I will not spend 10 minutes searching around the star port for a smuggler each and every time I want to planet hop. In fact I won't even do that once a night. That 10 minutes isOVER 5% of my play time each night. To me, it is not worth it own a sliced anything if I am going to be harassed for having it or need a smuggler simply to go to a different planet.
So dont use sliced items. You get that suit sliced *one* time by *one* SMuggler, and thats it. I doubt the Smuggler profession is going to crumble from losing out on that income.
(2) If owning sliced items interfere with my planet hopping in any way, I will either (a) not hire a smuggler at all and run through the checkpoint, or (b) not carry sliced items. Neither of those options (both of which you are advocating) fix anything for smuggler. If you are saying those are viable options, you are hurting the smuggler profession.
A 30% increase in damage is NOT worth spending 10 minutesand 10k+ credits just so I can blow up some pikits on Dath orBluurgs on Endor.Even a50% increase isn't worth it. I'm sorry, but it's not
I agree, its not worth it....for you. PvP'ers are known to pay insane credits for an extra 3 points of damage.
The only 2 responses you can have is:
(1) "Fine don't use sliced items." My response: Fine enjoy your revamp that still gives you nothing to smuggle. Nothing of *yours* to Smuggle.
(2) "The damage increases are going to be so great you will want to have a smuggler take them." My response: Absolutely positively wrong. No gun or armor of any quality is worth wasting 10 minutes of my time looking for a smuggler every single time I want to planet hop. I don't have to have that damage increase to get by, and the rare circumstances when Imight needneedthe extra damagewill come so rarely that it will provide you with no market whatsoever. Enjoy your revamp that still gives you nothing to smuggle.
Honestly, buddy...you need to lose the self-rightous attitude and consider other opinions. You can argue that other posters are "babies" and "whiners" all night long. Fact remains: They pay the same fee you do, and have just as much right to a good time. Your good time should not be enhanced at the expense of theirs...PERIOD.
Right back at ya babe. Your gameplay should not continue to be enhanced at the continued expense of the other profesisons. This revamp is going to make the game *fun* for a large group of players who have suffered a long time.
If you want to post constructively, why not try coming up with middle ground that will both (1) give smugglers a role and (2) not annoy the crap out of others. That is something that will be useful to GM. You saying "deal with it you big baby" is certainly not.
Is there a middle group for you, personally? Will you accept *anything* at all that will end up changing how you play the game? Or are you so set in your ways that *nothing* can be better if it will make you do anything different?
Become a Smuggler. That will solve all your problems. You can continue to be self-sufficient and have little or nothign to do with anyone else in the Massively-Multiplayer-ORPG. That if absolutely and completely your right. You can do anything within the boundaries of the game to continue to support your style of play.
As for me, I am looking forward to it. I have been factioned for maybe a month since the game launched. During that time (80% on Test Center) I was involved in PvP 2 times, both when I was attacked by someone else. I went prone and let the person kill me. I dont like PvP. But I look forward to crossing paths with some BH after this. I still wont PvP in the traditional way, but I will defend myself from the BH coming after me.
/cheer Someone changed teh subject!! To bad I agree with them.. I can't argue and propogate the new subject...