Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
SBRD0C wrote:
Geevo wrote:
Once again, it is not equal risk. Therefore if the implementation of either PvP or PvE bounties, there should be comparable risk vs reward. "The right premium for the right risk" is an insurance term I know quite well
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As I see it comparing Difficulty of PvE to PvP is not possible, PvP will always be more challenging for obvious reasons(unless the NPC is made to always win which would rather suck)
As I see it though, the PvE should not be compared to its PvP counterpart, but to PvE encounters of similar difficulty. Players will get an NPC BH based on them not participating in PvP, thus if the encounter matches a suitable PvE difficulty it is no different for the PvE only player to face an NPC as it is for a PvP character to face a PC.
Your arguments seem to be pointing toward comparing a PvP player vs. NPC as opposed to PvE player vs. NPC. The NPC vs a PvE player will be as good a challenge as that PvE player is ever likely to face.
Or even comparing a PvP person to a PvE person... first their mindsets are not even the same. Further more PvE'ers are not a lower class of player simply because we have no desire to play your playstyle. Every time you mention that PvP'ers are a superior race of players I get just a tad more defensive about never ever wanting to touch PvP. Your mindset it a huge reason alot of PvE'ers despise PvP in any form.
An NPC BH to a pve'er is JUST as challanging as a PC BH to a PvP'er. If the PvP'er is a good combatant then they will still kill the BH, same as with PvE. But if the smuggler (PvP or PvE) is not that good at combat both will die. Again it is not the challange we are worried about it is the playstyle.
Honestly I have not considered that case at all. It is definatly a monkey wrench in the works. Perhaps those who PvP regulary should automaticall get the PvP bounty, while those who don't are offered a choice? Not very immersive at all for the game to ask you how you want to die, but with this case I do not see another solution.
Smug-Druggler wrote:
Second, I think it was Geevo and others who offered the "history of play" idea. My question is:
"What if I don't engage in PvP outside of my Neutral Smuggler related duties?"
When I earn a Bounty Mark the game system will look at my "history of play", see that I haven't PvP'd recently, and assign me an NPC Bounty Hunter that I don't want. I want the Player BH's to deal with.
Third, am I correct in assuming that no one wants to split this thread into it's "Smuggling Mission" and "Contraband" componentsin the interest of ease of discussion? (made a post with a proposal earlier).
Respect
Smug-Druggler wrote:
Disagree here. If I'm understanding you correctly, being a Neutral Smuggler and taking a Neutral Smuggler Mission means that you don't want to PvP? Personally, I have always been a Neutral aligned Smuggler. And I didn't choose Neutral to avoid PvP, I chose it because I wanted to playthe "stereotypical Smuggler" whose onlyCause is himself or whoever is paying at the moment.
Basically, I want to remain Neutral and still have a PvP encounter with a Player Character Bounty Hunter. If I'm reading you correctly there's no spot for my type of Smuggler. Is that what you mean?
There iseasily room for special NPC missions for ANY player to take, of any affiliation, that let you know without a shadow of a doubt that you will have bounty hunters after you if you fail.
'Hohoho, if you F* this mission up Smug-Druggler, I'm going to have a bounty on your head so large that you wont be able to go near a civilized system!' have it in a decent back story to the mission.
There is room for those neutrals who want to be PVP participating and those who do not. If we keep the missions largely divided up according to GCW involvement it makes the process much easier.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Ternque01 wrote:
Geevo, check out my post again.. I edited it to throw a few more points in.
I think you still misinterpret about first meeting a BH. You won't necessarily be dead by the time you can tell it's an NPC. You have a point in that a player BH can scope you out to see if you are buffed or not before attacking... this needs to be addressed. It would make PC BH's a little more tough.
As far as NPC's being stupid, and you being able to predict their moves: There isn't much for you predict, hehe.. An NPC BH has the capability to walk through anything to get you. They do one thing and one thing only.. shoot! While they may not be smart, they are effective at killing. The only shortcomings in an NPC BH's AI that I can tell is that players may find a "glitch" to take advantage of - these are easily debugged. Well, add to that NPC's need to compensate for burst running and detecting fiegn death.
Okay, you have succesfully shown me that PC bounty hunters are slightly more dangerous than PC, congratulations.
How about we compensate by saying that NPC BH's don't stop coming until the player is dead. In a PvP situation, let's say that once a PC BH is killed the bounty is over and your visibility falls.
Therefore.. PC BH's are (naturally) more dangerous, but if you can kill him/her, then you're scott free. If you take the NPC BH option, the BH's aren't as smart, but you will die.
Is that acceptable? I think it is
I can agree with that as long as "visability" decay is also implimented so even if you were totaly successful of avoiding all the BH's you could still reduce your visability over time.
Remember we are not trying to punish PvE'ers because they differ on their playstyle.
RellikCro wrote:
Or even comparing a PvP person to a PvE person... first their mindsets are not even the same. Further more PvE'ers are not a lower class of player simply because we have no desire to play your playstyle. Every time you mention that PvP'ers are a superior race of players I get just a tad more defensive about never ever wanting to touch PvP. Your mindset it a huge reason alot of PvE'ers despise PvP in any form.
An NPC BH to a pve'er is JUST as challanging as a PC BH to a PvP'er. If the PvP'er is a good combatant then they will still kill the BH, same as with PvE. But if the smuggler (PvP or PvE) is not that good at combat both will die. Again it is not the challange we are worried about it is the playstyle.
I don't ever recal saying that PvE players were a lower class of anything or that they are solely support for anything. I would appreciate it if you allow me to say such things before you qoute me as such 
All I was saying is that a PvP encoutner cannot be directly compared to a PvE encounter being that they are different on too many different vectors.
Also that the question of differing difficulty is moot, the Difficulty of the PvE encounter will be scaled to PvE encounters, as it should be.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Smug-Druggler wrote:
Disagree here. If I'm understanding you correctly, being a Neutral Smuggler and taking a Neutral Smuggler Mission means that you don't want to PvP? Personally, I have always been a Neutral aligned Smuggler. And I didn't choose Neutral to avoid PvP, I chose it because I wanted to playthe "stereotypical Smuggler" whose onlyCause is himself or whoever is paying at the moment.
Basically, I want to remain Neutral and still have a PvP encounter with a Player Character Bounty Hunter. If I'm reading you correctly there's no spot for my type of Smuggler. Is that what you mean?
There iseasily room for special NPC missions for ANY player to take, of any affiliation, that let you know without a shadow of a doubt that you will have bounty hunters after you if you fail.
'Hohoho, if you F* this mission up Smug-Druggler, I'm going to have a bounty on your head so large that you wont be able to go near a civilized system!' have it in a decent back story to the mission.
There is room for those neutrals who want to be PVP participating and those who do not. If we keep the missions largely divided up according to GCW involvement it makes the process much easier.
LOL I would actually fall over if an NPC said that too me. But I also agree that I can see a playstyle that has no interest in the GCW but does in fact have an interested in PvP immersion of Smuggling.
This could even be tied into the thrid faction they are coming out with. Just like the existing two factions you could chose to join this faction and go covert/overt. Or if that is not appealing to the lone wolf smuggler role then certainly special missions from like Jabba the hut himself or other very noticable NPC's could give you maybe "higher" payouts (but not necesarily special items) for the added risk of failure. I think this would respect both, or in this case three, playstyles.
Duckfat wrote:
Why don't you all give up this stupid bickering about forced pvp and just read my post. The solution is simple. Eliminate this stupid contraband visibility scheme and in its place use the reputation system that is explained in my post.
BTW the NPC BH idea will not work. If you make them to easy people will whine about there not being enough of a penalty for contraband visibility. If you make them to hard people will whine about having to run around everywhere buffed because a NPC BH may be lurking around ready to kill you. Besides the whole point of the BH vs Smuggler thing was for pvp roleplay. You dont need to be a smuggler to find a tough NPC to fight.
SBRD0C wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
Or even comparing a PvP person to a PvE person... first their mindsets are not even the same. Further more PvE'ers are not a lower class of player simply because we have no desire to play your playstyle. Every time you mention that PvP'ers are a superior race of players I get just a tad more defensive about never ever wanting to touch PvP. Your mindset it a huge reason alot of PvE'ers despise PvP in any form.
An NPC BH to a pve'er is JUST as challanging as a PC BH to a PvP'er. If the PvP'er is a good combatant then they will still kill the BH, same as with PvE. But if the smuggler (PvP or PvE) is not that good at combat both will die. Again it is not the challange we are worried about it is the playstyle.
I don't ever recal saying that PvE players were a lower class of anything or that they are solely support for anything. I would appreciate it if you allow me to say such things before you qoute me as such
Also that the question of differing difficulty is moot, the Difficulty of the PvE encounter will be scaled to PvE encounters, as it should be.
I quoted your whole post, what I said is how I made to feel about the situation and language used. I do apologize for not making that more clear. But yes, when ppl mention that PvP is "harder" or "more chalanging" and thus should get special rewards then it does indeed make me feel you are saying my playstyle (not me personaly mind ya) is below yours.
Sorry for any confusion created for my lack of clarifying that in the first place.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
If we keep the missions largely divided up according to GCW involvement it makes the process much easier.
)...
RellikCro wrote:
I quoted your whole post, what I said is how I made to feel about the situation and language used. I do apologize for not making that more clear. But yes, when ppl mention that PvP is "harder" or "more chalanging" and thus should get special rewards then it does indeed make me feel you are saying my playstyle (not me personaly mind ya) is below yours.
Sorry for any confusion created for my lack of clarifying that in the first place.
Ahh, In that case I am sorry for not making it clear myself... I personally find defeating a player to be more 'challenging' because that that player culd do anything... in many cases though it is actually less, because they enemy player is not always what one would call... umm .. smart.
As I stated comparing difficulty of PvP and PvE cannot be done accurately, they are just too different.
SBRD0C wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
I quoted your whole post, what I said is how I made to feel about the situation and language used. I do apologize for not making that more clear. But yes, when ppl mention that PvP is "harder" or "more chalanging" and thus should get special rewards then it does indeed make me feel you are saying my playstyle (not me personaly mind ya) is below yours.
Sorry for any confusion created for my lack of clarifying that in the first place.
Ahh, In that case I am sorry for not making it clear myself... I personally find defeating a player to be more 'challenging' because that that player culd do anything... in many cases though it is actually less, because they enemy player is not always what one would call... umm .. smart.
As I stated comparing difficulty of PvP and PvE cannot be done accurately, they are just too different.
Agreed... like apples to oranges.