Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Once concern I have is with a PVE consequence, the smuggler can get off pretty easy if they are aware and know when to use feign death. Unless that NPC was given the ability to see through it, it's too easy to avoid the consequences of failure.
So your answer is to simply force a playstyle alot of players wish not to participate in then other then fix the AI of an NPC BH?
Easy... turn off feign death to NPC BH's.. they are BH's.. should they not know if you are truely dead? They were commisioned to kill and make sure you were dead.. they should be smart enough to walk over to your body and make sure you are truely dead.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
RellikCro wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Once concern I have is with a PVE consequence, the smuggler can get off pretty easy if they are aware and know when to use feign death. Unless that NPC was given the ability to see through it, it's too easy to avoid the consequences of failure.
So your answer is to simply force a playstyle alot of players wish not to participate in then other then fix the AI of an NPC BH?
Easy... turn off feign death to NPC BH's.. they are BH's.. should they not know if you are truely dead? They were commisioned to kill and make sure you were dead.. they should be smart enough to walk over to your body and make sure you are truely dead.
Force? I'm not forcing anything. In the event the consequence for a non-pvp participating smuggler fails or otherwise gets a bad rep. No pvp involved.
As for the NPC solution, Isn't that what I just said? Lol.
GamerProX wrote:
Smugglers...come on, dont screw the BH's with a BH NPC that chases you, thats a huge slap in the face. Let us help each other to reach a common goal.
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-17-2004 04:04 PM
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Once concern I have is with a PVE consequence, the smuggler can get off pretty easy if they are aware and know when to use feign death. Unless that NPC was given the ability to see through it, it's too easy to avoid the consequences of failure.
So your answer is to simply force a playstyle alot of players wish not to participate in then other then fix the AI of an NPC BH?
Easy... turn off feign death to NPC BH's.. they are BH's.. should they not know if you are truely dead? They were commisioned to kill and make sure you were dead.. they should be smart enough to walk over to your body and make sure you are truely dead.
Force? I'm not forcing anything. In the event the consequence for a non-pvp participating smuggler fails or otherwise gets a bad rep. No pvp involved.
As for the NPC solution, Isn't that what I just said? Lol.
Heh, I might of missed it.. in game playing smuggler while reading the boards also So yes after rereading I see what you were saying.. basically samething.
So would this be feasible as far as backend is concerned? And I am all for beefed up NPC BH's for this aspect also... I mean I do want to be challanged, I want to fear the BH when I see him. Just do not want the pvp part
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Once concern I have is with a PVE consequence, the smuggler can get off pretty easy if they are aware and know when to use feign death. Unless that NPC was given the ability to see through it, it's too easy to avoid the consequences of failure.
I suppose that is assuming they Fix FD, as it is, its not going to help anyone escape a 1v1 encounter of any kind.
That aside, FD already seems to have a built-in chance of failure.. possibly based on our FD skill modifiers, the BH NPC would perhaps have a higher bonus to detect it, and therefore FD would fail as we have seen it sometimes does now. In the rare chance that FD succeeds(in a PvE environment) the NPC BH leaves, believing his job is done.
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-17-2004 04:09 PM
Ternque01 wrote:
How is an NPC not smart enough to hunt down and kill a player? Simple tell the server to introduce a BH in the players vicinity at some random time after they reach a certain visibility.
One example (but not the only example) ... burst run away before a kill and hide in/around buildings.
The NPC doesn't have to hunt down the player. The only thing a player is going to see from either a PC or NPC bounty is them being attacked.
The player will see if it is an NPC ... how it moves, how it acts, and how it reacts. The player will also react to the actions of the NPC.
You have smuggler A sitting in the bar, when all of a sudden he's being shot at... this is easily reproduceable.
NPC's now have the ability to circumvent building/wall structures in order to continue and attack. There are no structures that can limit a NPC from attacking you.
They should not be able to ... you are not able to shoot past walls anymore, and it should/does apply to NPCs as well.
So I strongly say that they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness if not better than a player. NPC's are dumb (exactly), but they are coded so that taking advantage of them isn't possible (unless you find a new trick).
So I'm telling you now, NPC's can hunt (but not as well)(because the server knows where you are) and they can kill. I think your argument has no base (then you are not thinking, not paying attention, not listening...and I would say that you should re-read these posts. If you really think that there is not a basis for the many valid points that I have made, among the many other players ... I would recommend some critical thinking courses at your local college or university. Every arguement that has been made...even yours...has a base. You clearly convey that you believePvE bounties are equal to PvP bounties, so if PvP bounties were implemented you should see no difference and gladly accept PvP...because as you said 'they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness'.
Geevo, Very good points indeed, but on the flip side, if a player never participates in PvP anyway, this NPC BH would be just as challenging as any other PvE aspect in the game to the PvE player and therefore, though it cannot be truly compared in difficulty to a PvP encounter, it still meets all the requirements for lawfull retribution that we are looking for.
Geevo wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
How is an NPC not smart enough to hunt down and kill a player? Simple tell the server to introduce a BH in the players vicinity at some random time after they reach a certain visibility.
One example (but not the only example) ... burst run away before a kill and hide in/around buildings.
The NPC doesn't have to hunt down the player. The only thing a player is going to see from either a PC or NPC bounty is them being attacked.
The player will see if it is an NPC ... how it moves, how it acts, and how it reacts. The player will also react to the actions of the NPC.
You have smuggler A sitting in the bar, when all of a sudden he's being shot at... this is easily reproduceable.
NPC's now have the ability to circumvent building/wall structures in order to continue and attack. There are no structures that can limit a NPC from attacking you.
They should not be able to ... you are not able to shoot past walls anymore, and it should/does apply to NPCs as well.
So I strongly say that they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness if not better than a player. NPC's are dumb (exactly), but they are coded so that taking advantage of them isn't possible (unless you find a new trick).
So I'm telling you now, NPC's can hunt (but not as well)(because the server knows where you are) and they can kill. I think your argument has no base (then you are not thinking, not paying attention, not listening...and I would say that you should re-read these posts. If you really think that there is not a basis for the many valid points that I have made, among the many other players ... I would recommend some critical thinking courses at your local college or university. Every arguement that has been made...even yours...has a base. You clearly convey that you believePvE bounties are equal to PvP bounties, so if PvP bounties were implemented you should see no difference and gladly accept PvP...because as you said 'they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness'.
Under the republic this would be true, in CHINA soliders are GIVEN drugs to boost their performance. During WW2 bothels were in full bloom near Military bases. Guards took bribes from POWs. If I remember correctlly SADAM's friends had lots of drugs. When a dictator is in charge people are afraid. Most afraid of those with higher rank then them. Corporal is not high enough rank to be afraid of.
joined42904 wrote:
I think this proposal of Green Marine is so wonderful.
Imperials only get a pass for quasi-legal things. That's a big improvement from the current system. And I am glad you gave one star to the imp colonel who wanted to be excused for banned items. MPs have to enforce the law, and even high ranking officers can be arrested (as in current democratic militaries) on drug charges.
^ my add in
Geevo wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
How is an NPC not smart enough to hunt down and kill a player? Simple tell the server to introduce a BH in the players vicinity at some random time after they reach a certain visibility.
One example (but not the only example) ... burst run away before a kill and hide in/around buildings.
The burst run can easily adapted to by code, thanks for pointing it out. Currently NPC's have the capability to follow you into a building to fight you. Hiding doesn't work, just as it wouldn't work with a player
The NPC doesn't have to hunt down the player. The only thing a player is going to see from either a PC or NPC bounty is them being attacked.
The player will see if it is an NPC ... how it moves, how it acts, and how it reacts. The player will also react to the actions of the NPC.
Not the point i was addressing (not your fault). In an NPC BH encounter, a NPC is spawned within attacking range of a player. Just as in real bounties, the victim is very seldom aware that their hunter is near until the blaster bolts start flying. My point is that the first connection a victim will make with a BH of any kind will be bright flashes coming from the end of a gun. My point here was not whether or not a player could ascertain if a BH is NPC or PC. Provided BH NPC's are adjusted to compensate for burst runs and given increased ability to detect feign death, they are just as effective as PC's.
You have smuggler A sitting in the bar, when all of a sudden he's being shot at... this is easily reproduceable.
NPC's now have the ability to circumvent building/wall structures in order to continue and attack. There are no structures that can limit a NPC from attacking you.
They should not be able to ... you are not able to shoot past walls anymore, and it should/does apply to NPCs as well.
NPC AI has changed. If you have ever been on a base raid, you will notice that factional NPC's will pass directly through walls until they reach you. NPC AI accounts for wall structures, and the solution that SOE has come up with is to allow them to pass through it if they cannot attack you. You cannot shoot through walls anymore, but NPC's can pass through them. Therefore you can't hide from them.
So I strongly say that they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness if not better than a player. NPC's are dumb (exactly), but they are coded so that taking advantage of them isn't possible (unless you find a new trick).
So I'm telling you now, NPC's can hunt (but not as well)(because the server knows where you are) and they can kill. I think your argument has no base (then you are not thinking, not paying attention, not listening...and I would say that you should re-read these posts. If you really think that there is not a basis for the many valid points that I have made, among the many other players ... I would recommend some critical thinking courses at your local college or university. Every arguement that has been made...even yours...has a base. You clearly convey that you believePvE bounties are equal to PvP bounties, so if PvP bounties were implemented you should see no difference and gladly accept PvP...because as you said 'they can both hunt down and kill with the same effectiveness'.
Kind of a slap in the face I would say. If you now know that NPC's can pass through walls, posses the same strength's as a player and are tweaked to deal with burst runs (easy) and fiegn death, then you have one hell of a BH substitute here.
Even if a person manages to outsmart the NPC, the bounties do not stop until they are dead. Equal risk for equal reward
I've very simply dismantled your argument base and criticized it, point for point. Feel free to throw more at me
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 06-17-2004 06:34 PM
Geevo wrote:
Once again, it is not equal risk. Therefore if the implementation of either PvP or PvE bounties, there should be comparable risk vs reward. "The right premium for the right risk" is an insurance term I know quite well
I've got a couple "wrinkles" for2 different arguments here.
First, Caylin, I know you're juggling a few arguments, sorry but I need some clarification.
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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I've worked on this long ago and the easiest way I saw was to not have some box telling us we were being hunted and whether or not we wanted a PVP or a PVE encounter, but to simply divide the missions up according to faction.
Imperial smugglers who want to be hunted down in a PVP method, take faction oriented smuggling missions. The same for any rebel player. Require allegiance to the faction in order to gain access to the missions. This means all PVP is consensual. Why? Because the player joined a GCW faction. As previously mentioned its the act of joining a faction that says to the game you have consented to PVP combat, not the act of going Overt. Any faction aligned smuggle mission could have a PVP, bounty hunter intensive, consequence.
Agree. Being in a GCW faction is PvP by default.
Neutral missions should not. They can have immediate consequences for failure maybe, or thelower the faction the player has (Example: -5000 jabba) gives the chance of an NPC bounty hunter hunting you down if you fail a mission for him.
Disagree here. If I'm understanding you correctly, being a Neutral Smuggler and taking a Neutral Smuggler Mission means that you don't want to PvP? Personally, I have always been a Neutral aligned Smuggler. And I didn't choose Neutral to avoid PvP, I chose it because I wanted to playthe "stereotypical Smuggler" whose onlyCause is himself or whoever is paying at the moment.
Basically, I want to remain Neutral and still have a PvP encounter with a Player Character Bounty Hunter. If I'm reading you correctly there's no spot for my type of Smuggler. Is that what you mean?
The addition of the Hutt faction though honestly has me worried about what it will do for those smugglers who actually do things for the 'cause' and I don't want to see those players left out of criminal activities because they don't directly work for the hutts.
This was the key thing that drove me to my Crime Lord profession proposal and the addition of a sub-faction within your GCW or Neutral allegiance. That way the player would not be hindered in their pursuit or avoidanceof the GCW cause, but be augmented if they wish to pursue a more criminal lifestyle that would not forfeit their previous allegiance.
Again, if I understand, that's me up there in that "Sub_Faction" within my Neutrality.
Still wanting the PvP challenge though.
Second, I think it was Geevo and others who offered the "history of play" idea. My question is:
"What if I don't engage in PvP outside of my Neutral Smuggler related duties?"
When I earn a Bounty Mark the game system will look at my "history of play", see that I haven't PvP'd recently, and assign me an NPC Bounty Hunter that I don't want. I want the Player BH's to deal with.
Third, am I correct in assuming that no one wants to split this thread into it's "Smuggling Mission" and "Contraband" componentsin the interest of ease of discussion? (made a post with a proposal earlier).
Respect