Smuggler Archive
Thread: Bad trend for smugglers.
KaiRan wrote:
Wouldnt a quick fix that didnt result in us smugglers loosing our favorite method of denying Jedi our pvp rating be to simply make /feignDeath result in a BH failing their mission the same way actual death does?
I stated before that FD is a legitimate tactic but I have to change my mind about it being used this way. I think that this is a good idea to cause a mission failure if the BH FD's. I am not a BH but I was going to take it up and decided against it to go master smuggler. I have only used FD in pve and doing that it was good to get healed and pop back ready to fight again. What the current crop of BH's are doing is not right. Now, I do not like the attitudes of most Jedi and I know that most BH's are out to take the Jedi's xp no matter the cost. Read some of those forum messages. But usig FD is wrong to keep the mission alive. Also making the mission go away if FD is used will stop the dabbling in this line for that specific reason and the problem will be solved.
WookieCrisp
TKM/Master Smuggler
LT Imperial Army
Official Imperial Clone Station Inspector
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Shrendyc wrote:
Here's my proposal, and hopefully the meatheads who are working on the revamp (all zero of them) will pay attention to me this once.
Smuggler is a class that uses evasion and guile in a fight - sometimes we need to go toe to toe, but more often than not, we try to make a break for it, and when cornered, we use dirty tricks to get the upper hand. Once we have the upper hand, we, as smugglers, face a choice - to run like hell and get out of harms way, or to try to win the fight, and potentially lose the upper hand we just got.
The dirty fighting line could be modified to suit this very idea. Dirty fighting as it stands now grants us:
DF1 - feign death
DF2 - panic shot
DF3 - low blow
DF4 - last ditch
master - nothing
I propose that we change it to this, to geta more "dirty trick" oriented tree:
DF1 - ranged blind
DF2 - ranged dizzy
DF3 - low blow (remains the same)
DF4 - last ditch (remains the same)
master - Feign Death
This way, we have the ability to impact the fighting ability of our opponents by giving us more states to slap on them, we have the ability to tap into the dizzy/knockdown combo that TK's use and love so much. We would need to have a timer on those so as to prevent a spammable special combo that would be begging to be nerfed. But this gets us more useful abilities, grants us a good combo again (like LB and PS was in the old days) and moves FD into the master box, protecting the skill from being hit by the nerf bat.
This is just a prelim idea, but I am so sick and tired of our abilities being stripped away one at a time. What does the smuggler community think about this? Caylin, any thoughts?
Well, I personally don't agree with keeping everyone out of feign death who isn't a master. The problem is that it is too powerful even at DF1 for them to use. I'd prefer to keep it where it is, just have increasing levels of the skill mean alot more.
As for the move choice, there is nothing wrong with it. Yet of all professions in this game, I want to see smuggler specials something special. Not knockoffs of other abilities.
After the combat balance I don't think dizzy/kd is going to be the end-all combo anymore honestly. I'd like to see smugglers able to work without it. This is just my personal preference though.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
NJ_Ragman wrote:
The reason they nerf profession C's abilities, is because it takes less time for them to do this than to work on profession A and B to fix the issue the correct way.
I don't doubt that one bit
I too don't wish to see FD moved to master, but we can expect the inevitable with regards to FD being nerfed, as i have wondered for a long time how long it'd take to happen. From way back when the old abusers used to lay bleeds on something, then FD till it was killable in one single shot, to what it's being abused for now.
I fear the worst will happen. They destroyed our panic shot, they destroyed our low blow, i think the multiplier in Last Ditch got lowered too, doesn't seem to do as much damage anymore. So FD would be the next thing.
An SOE Dev and a SWG Player were driving on the highwaywhen the vehicle they're in gets a flat and forces them to pull over.
The Player sighs and starts to look for the Jack when the Dev states that he has a better idea. To the Player's amazement, the Dev partially deflates one tire, over inflates the other and stares blankly at the third.
The Dev's response to the players look of horror?
Fill in the Blank
Nothing personal to the Devs just vilifying to blow off steam. Unless of course, they actually nerf Feign Death. Then I mean every bit of it. 
jbezorg wrote:NJ_Ragman wrote:
The reason they nerf profession C's abilities, is because it takes less time for them to do this than to work on profession A and B to fix the issue the correct way.I don't doubt that one bit
I too don't wish to see FD moved to master, but we can expect the inevitable with regards to FD being nerfed, as i have wondered for a long time how long it'd take to happen. From way back when the old abusers used to lay bleeds on something, then FD till it was killable in one single shot, to what it's being abused for now.
I fear the worst will happen. They destroyed our panic shot, they destroyed our low blow, i think the multiplier in Last Ditch got lowered too, doesn't seem to do as much damage anymore. So FD would be the next thing.
An SOE Dev and a SWG Player were driving on the highway when the vehicle they're in gets a flat and forces them to pull over.
The Player sighs and starts to look for the Jack when the Dev states that he has a better idea. To the Player's amazement, the Dev partially deflates one tire, over inflates the other and stares blankly at the third.
The Dev's response to the players look of horror?
Fill in the Blank
Nothing personal to the Devs just vilifying to blow off steam. Unless of course, they actually nerf Feign Death. Then I mean every bit of it.
ROFL. That was one of the best ways to describe it that i've ever read.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Jarkatoo wrote:
well i am not liking what is going on 1 bit, it seems we are becoming a FOTM.... i see a trend of a lot of TKA/Smuggler/BH and itis starting to disturb me. BH's are picking up smuggler for the feign death skill. and jedi are starting to complain about it, which only means 1 thing, the golden children are gonna get there way and smugglers will get nerfed once again..and the worse part is the players doing this keep bragging on the flurry forums about it. i feigned and you couldnt do anything about it. so what is happening is if a jedi is beating them they feign death, wait till the tef wears off and goes back and start attacking the jedi, because he doesnt lose his mission that way..
Caylin i think we are going to need your intervention in the outcome of this. BH's are abussing a skill of ours and i know the devs dont like it and thought about getting rid of it, well now they have fuel to do it.......
Well I know I"m worried about this as well. How to address it though? From my perspective the fix, might have to be a nerf to the ability.
Example:
Add a detection ability to bounty hunter investigation. The higher it is, the more able they are to 'see through' someones attempt at feign death.
Add a force ability to jedi that would enable them to detect whether or not the person is still 'within the force' so to speak.
Then have that feign death modifier we have really make a difference by acting as a rolling save. The higher it is, the better the chance of success. The modifier being such that anything less than a master bounty hunter should not be able to detect that a master smuggler is feigning death and the same for some novice padawan.
Make the modifier mean a bit more and give them chances to see through it...
I think a better solution would be to move FD to master or spread the few points around in the entire tree the same way they did with CH's creature level. that way you dont hurt the ones that have mastered smuggler, and you make it harder for the dabblers to take advantage, since its impossible to master smuggler and BH it leaves the dabbler with a lot more negotiating to do to be as successful as a master smuggler.
you get a +70 to FD by the time you finish DF, +45 at the gain of the skill. think this would work better with the points spread IMO
Orcajum wrote:
Does anyone else find it rather pathetic that BH and Jedi are getting better use out of a smuggler skill than smugglers currently are? You'd think the profession a skill is found in would have better use of that skill, on a more regular basis, than someone dabbling in that line.
The problem with that reasoning is simple: Smuggler, on its own, is NOT a combat class. Let's be serious - just how far do you expect to get with just Pistols IV, Unarmed IV and Dirty Fighting?
Plain and simple, you're not getting out of a starter city with those skills alone. So, by nature, you pick up other skills to supplement your combat ability (say, Pistoleer).
Guess what? That makes YOU a dabbler! It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as a Smuggler with Pistoleer skills and the other guy is a "Pistoleer who dabbled in Smuggler", the fact is that there is no difference.
If you expect the skills of a profession to be exclusive to that profession, we can do away with skill points entirely and have you choose a character class during generation.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Orcajum wrote:
Does anyone else find it rather pathetic that BH and Jedi are getting better use out of a smuggler skill than smugglers currently are? You'd think the profession a skill is found in would have better use of that skill, on a more regular basis, than someone dabbling in that line.
The problem with that reasoning is simple: Smuggler, on its own, is NOT a combat class. Let's be serious - just how far do you expect to get with just Pistols IV, Unarmed IV and Dirty Fighting?
Plain and simple, you're not getting out of a starter city with those skills alone. So, by nature, you pick up other skills to supplement your combat ability (say, Pistoleer).
Guess what? That makes YOU a dabbler! It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as a Smuggler with Pistoleer skills and the other guy is a "Pistoleer who dabbled in Smuggler", the fact is that there is no difference.
If you expect the skills of a profession to be exclusive to that profession, we can do away with skill points entirely and have you choose a character class during generation.
I personally have no problem with BH and Jedi picking up Smuggler skills. My problem isthe fact that SOE is shocked when it happens and their #1 response is Nerf. Did they not notice that Feign Death was in the game?Thatfreeing up the skill points in BH and allowing Jedi to also take regular professionsopened up this posibility?
They effectively gave players who open their force sensitivity slot a whole bunch of extra skill points in addition to the normal 250 and then they wonder why a BH with only 250 can't win.
Then they free up skill points for the BH so they can compete so they can take abilities to compete. Resulting in an overpowered profession.
Now those abilities are causeing problems and the Devs are looking to nerf those abilities resulting in a futher inbalance because it cripples another profession (futher). Right now, this game is as balanced as a barbell with the weights missing on one side.
Want to make Master Bounty Hunters equal to a Master Jedi?
Skill points to Reach Master BH = Skill points to reach Master Jedi and get rid of this Character Class 'Jedi' in a skill point based system.
Message Edited by jbezorg on 08-11-2004 11:43 PM
KJFett wrote:
If a BH enters combat with his Jedi mark, and FDs, the TEF on the jedi should end.