Smuggler Archive

i know what you meant, but part of me wants two weapons to experiment on as my "babies" so to speak. With the range of diverse armor and resists I generally switch between three pistols on a regualr basis, and have two others in case I need them.

It all comes down to the fact that I would just like to have two weapons to swap back and forth between that I have modified for my use. Realistically, I can only justify one though, and that is my dilemna. Really quite a dumb thing to be wanting as there is really only justification for one, but I can still want two

And just to be clear, all other weapons would work as they do now, and be usable without incident if you have the certification for them, and be able to be sliced. Just not "tinkered" with.

I think something like this would be a great way to make the Slicing branch of Smuggler more interactive and valuable for all levels of Smugglers (ie, even if you don't have a big market for slicing other players' gear, you get a special boost for your own).

Here's the original post (plus a subsequent clarification), just for the sake of showing the genesis of this idea:

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SMUGGLER-SPECIFIC PERMANENT POWERUPS:

This is more work to program than a simple cert, but more smugglerish.

Let Smugglers make personal permanent powerups that are uniquely certed to them and that modify several different stats at once, like a mixture of a slice and a powerup, plus a little extra thrown in for good measure.

So what could these permanent powerups have in them? Well, make them like a new advanced plug-in component, like Krayt tissue or a Nym's dealio. Allow Smugglers to use their Slicing skill (adding a new bonus to it to account for this type of slicing) to build a new powerup. Let us experiment on the stats and bonuses, and make resource qualitymatter. Then allow the powerupto be plugged in during a special slicing session, which can result in a critical failure depending on how much you experimented up the powerup. A critical failure would destroy the powerup and the weapon.

So what could go into a powerup?

Consider the new limited-edition Featherweight FWG. It's gota +5 Dodge, +5 Counterattack, and +5 Accuracy. Several other new weapons have skill mods built into them, such as the backpack from the Imperial Themepark or the new Crafter's Kits. Based on this, we know that the Devs will allow crafted legendary weapons/items with skill mods in them.

Based on that, let's imagine a number of bonuses rather than the typical speed and damage powerups, considered from the high-end of the scale. I'd imagine that a Master may be able to add a number of bonuses into one powerup, restricted by experimentation. Speed and damage will be the old reliable ones. But consider a gun that had mods with any of the following:

• Dodge
  
• Counterattack
  
• Block
  
• Aim
  
• Ranged defense
  
• Melee defense
  
• Accuracy
  
• Accuracy While Moving
  
• Combat Equilibrium
  
• Defense v Posture Change (Down)
  
• ...or others.

So you could tailor-make the gun to match the skills you wanted to emphasize. It might be a good idea to cap skill mods at +10 per stat, and maybe +20 total, to nobody gets too powerful or throws off the combat balance.

Once you've put on the powerup, you shouldn't be able to attach another powerup, and your gun should decay as if it had a regular powerup on it (if not a bit faster).

And let me reiterate - once you attach a powerup to your weapon, it should be uniquely certed to you. Nobody else should be able to use the special powerup.

And here's a nice way to balance this - allow increasingly-better powerups to be crafted and grafted depending on your skill at slicing. Starting at Slicing 2, when you can work on weapons, Smugglers should get increasingly better experimentation and assembly bonuses by which to craft and attach these powerups, with low-level powerups about on par with an average slice and a 30% powerup, plus a very small stat bonus. Masters should have a massive boost, with enough experimentation to make something that rivals the finest slice, the finest powerup, and a couple of substantial skill mods all rolled into one.

So, rather than a special cert, which is a one-shot deal, and which we'd need Weaponsmiths to make for us, what about the super-powerup idea? Personally, I like it a LOT more than a simple cert. Every Smuggler's gun would be a unique weapon, tailor-made by them.

All good stuff here, you guys keep up the good work.

The only things I may add are a reiteration of the "only one personally modified weapon at a time" point and that this should be limited to pistols only. Pistols are the Smuggler's weapon, and that would avoid any "Personally Modified Flamethrowers" that was a concern a few posts up.

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DRWolfe wrote:

All good stuff here, you guys keep up the good work.

The only things I may add are a reiteration of the "only one personally modified weapon at a time" point and that this should be limited to pistols only. Pistols are the Smuggler's weapon, and that would avoid any "Personally Modified Flamethrowers" that was a concern a few posts up.

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My only problem with doing it this way is that there are many Smugglers who do not go pistoleer, and this would be viewed as being unfair I am certain. Especially since so many Smugglers go TKA. While I could see it as a possibility to limit to pistols, carbines, rifles, and melee weapons, I do not think limiting it to just pistols would be a viable option.

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Ryutek wrote:

My only problem with doing it this way is that there are many Smugglers who do not go pistoleer, and this would be viewed as being unfair I am certain. Especially since so many Smugglers go TKA. While I could see it as a possibility to limit to pistols, carbines, rifles, and melee weapons, I do not think limiting it to just pistols would be a viable option.

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DRWolfe wrote:

You'd either have to make it Pistol only or everything, because you know someone would make a ruckus if their particular weapon was not included. My opinion is Pistols only for the reason stated above. To make it really Smuggler weapons only, it can't be Pistols gained through other professions (DX2,Scatter, Launcher, etc). Don't know if this is too restrictive or not, but it keeps it a Smuggler thing.

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Well, technically all of the pistols are gained through other professions

Back to seriousness, heh.

I cannot see having it apply to just pistols being something that would work, mostly because there will be so many people arguing that they never use pistols (I do know a couple who use TKA exclusively, and still went Master Smuggler). I understand what you are saying, and it would not affect me in teh elast, as I am a pistol user. However, if you look at it from the standpoint of Unarmed being a prereq, then it only makes sense that TKA is meant to be a complimentary profession as well, even though Smuggler has no UA experience required in teh tree, nor any melee moves. Therefore you really could not rule out VKs as an option.

This presents the problem, if you allow two different weapons then you almost have to allow all weapons to be modified, because a Smuggler can still Master any Elite Combat Profession. The ability allows the Smuggler to modify his personal weapon. Why would we mandate that the personal weapon HAS to be a pistol? It really just is not fair to those who want diversity within the class, if they want to take advantage of their Smuggler abilities.

I still can see it as allowable on everything except heavy weapons. Technically it would slight Commandos a little, but they could still modify their Launcher Pistols, allowing them to still use the ability, even if it is in a limited form.

I like the idea of tinkering and I look forward to it very much.

"The concept of Personally Modified Flamerthrowers makes me shudder however."

I would hope that since the Smuggler line deals only with pistol it would only be a pistol that can be tinkered with. Brawlers don't get vibro knucklers anymore so my tka half is out of luck in tinkering with that item which is good in my opinion. This is a smuggler perk and I think it should stay that way.

Forgive me for saying this, but I'm more open to spreading everything out across the tree than putting stuff in just two columns. Ryutek mentioned how CH was changed and that's pretty much my line of thought. People are also complaining about defense stacking and the devs are going to change that. To me it looks as though this game will become more or less class based and I would hate to hear people complain about a class that many regard as non-combative when a pistoleer starts mowing people down.

Just my opinions there.

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Xeranx wrote:
I like the idea of tinkering and I look forward to it very much.

Same here! I can only hope that it will actually happen.

I would hope that since the Smuggler line deals only with pistol it would only be a pistol that can be tinkered with. Brawlers don't get vibro knucklers anymore so my tka half is out of luck in tinkering with that item which is good in my opinion. This is a smuggler perk and I think it should stay that way.

Probably the best way to decide this is by a vote (which I would want to do in an entirely different thread). There are justifiable arguments on both sides, so I do not see a clear winner without it coming down to a majority vote.

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Ryutek wrote:

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Xeranx wrote:

I would hope that since the Smuggler line deals only with pistol it would only be a pistol that can be tinkered with. Brawlers don't get vibro knucklers anymore so my tka half is out of luck in tinkering with that item which is good in my opinion. This is a smuggler perk and I think it should stay that way.

Probably the best way to decide this is by a vote (which I would want to do in an entirely different thread). There are justifiable arguments on both sides, so I do not see a clear winner without it coming down to a majority vote.

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I just want to stress the riskiness of putting too much stock in that strategy. This is not a democracy. It's estimated that about 10% or so of SWG subscribers actually read the boards, let alone post here. There's also no way to vet people who aren't Smugglers, or friends of people who are asked to stuff the ballot box. To believe that a vote really determines how we should proceed is flawed. Of course, trusting one person to decide for us is ALSO flawed, and moreso.

What does that mean for us? Well, it just means that no matter what a vote turns up, it doesn't necessarily make it the right way to go. We can't just let any random ideas get passed to the Devs simply because a lot of people asked for it - there needs to be a strong foundation for every demand we make, and there needs to be some debate on any ideas that get passed along. An up and down vote is not going to help us.

Look at some of the wild polls that appear, and which get a lot of support (see the jedi forum for the worst of the lot). I really believe that if players had a direct opportunity to vote on the shape of the game, we'd all have 10 characters per server, the monthly fee would be waived, everyone would be able to control 12 Graul Maulers, Jedi would bea starting profession, all weapons and armor would be free, and we could /yawn at the Gorax to kill it. The SWG forum is probably the LAST place where I hope for pure democracy. But as we've seen before, it's all too easy for a correspondent to become a dictator who could care less about alternative ideas. There's a middle line we have to walk between dictatorship and democracy. Your guess is as good as mine where it's best to keep that line.

While I agree almost completely with you electric, the only way to gain guidance in what way to pursue is to either have a definitive response form the powers that be (the developers) to say "we could do this but it would require limitations here" or to have guidance from the community to come in and vote.

I do not mean to take the vote as an exclusive answer. There would have to be valid reasoning on both sides. however, I do not see a clear victor on this issue at this point, merely because there are equally valid points already made to support both sides. A vote would help to bring out the discussion from many people (hopefully) as well as gain a clear understanding if there is an overwhelming majority in favor of one idea instead of another. If it ends up as a fairly equal vote, then i have no problems standing firm on a decision in my proposal, even if it is changed by those that implement it (as we rally have absolutely no control there).

Message Edited by Ryutek on 03-05-2004 12:32 PM

I agree that voting on this issue is a flawed way of making a decision.

Comment WRT the number of Personal Weapons:

It is necessary to allow a Smuggler to have more than one of these, in order to allow them to Experiment with a new weapon and see if it works well. Possibly allowing the creation of a Personally Sliced Weapon as you wish but only allowing its use if it is the only such weapon the Smuggler has? Also, are Jedi allowed to have more than 1 Lightsaber (arguably the nearest equivalent the Personal Weapon idea has in existing items)? Personal Weapons will be regarded as over complex if the Smuggler runs too much of a risk of destroying an already useful weapon when "upgrading" an existing one, unless you allow multiple Personal Weapons (at least temporarily) to allow for experimentation failure.


Comment WRT spreading the Personal Weapon ability across the width of the entire Smuggler tree: I disagree with this course of action, mainly as I don't see why a Spice maker or deal maker should have any ability to modify a weapon. Keep the modifications within slicing and the use within Dirty fighting, and I feel it will work just as well (indeed better if larger steps are taken between modification stages).


Comment WRT the Personally Sliced Weapon and the proposed Bounties System: This item should be *VERY* illegal. A possible requirement of Underworld of an equivalent to conceal the items true nature would be good.

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Ryutek wrote:

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Xeranx wrote:

That's exactly what I was leaning towards Caylin. Only pistols that would be available in marksman tree from novice marksman to pistols 4. This would exclude rifles and carbines and any elite weaponry.

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Sorry, but if it is done this way then it would have to be all of Marksman and all of Brawler. Not every Smuggler relies on pistols, and to limit them in that way makes it unfair to those who pursue other avenues of combat, as they would not be able to use their Smuggler skills to better their preferred weapon. Eliminating the ability for elite profession weapons could be perfectly fine though.

Every smuggler relies on pistols Ryu. It's how we get to novice smuggler. It doesn't make sense to me to include rifles or carbines as we don't need those trees to achieve novice smuggler. I mentioned that the vibro knuckler was moved from the brawler tree to novice tka and if this tinkering is a possiblity I'm happy that it was. Considering that you want to have everything listed around the required trees involved it would make tka (a class most feel is overpowered) very overpowered. You don't need 2 handed sword to make it to novice smuggler nor do you need 1 handed or polearm.

If the requirement to attain novice smuggler involved master marksman and master brawler then I would agree with you, but it doesn't.

Slightly off to a different topic, what do you all think of allowing the possibility of a Smuggler to enhance the strength of a weapon enough to gain low level armor piercing (AP1) by way of two tinkering sessions?

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I would love to have a smuggler powered VK