Smuggler Archive
Thread: A Proposal on Smuggler Weapons, or the Lack Thereof
I believe smugglers have preferred weapons.
I happen to like a one-handed sword. While my progression up smuggler required a pistol, as it is an easily concealed and reliable weapon, I have no reason to believe though that it should be exclusive to pistols.
You mention TKA, like you said, VKs are in Novice TKA, not in brawler. This changes nothing for them.
Not everyone likes fighting with pistols. While I can understand and work with pistol being required to progress up the smuggler tree, I don't feel that we should limit it to pistols as the game itself encourages dabbling in other skill sets.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
baslisks wrote:
I would love to have a smuggler powered VK
Bet you and many TKA's would, but it would be rediculously powerful.
So I can't justify it.
Xeranx wrote:
Every smuggler relies on pistols Ryu. It's how we get to novice smuggler. It doesn't make sense to me to include rifles or carbines as we don't need those trees to achieve novice smuggler. I mentioned that the vibro knuckler was moved from the brawler tree to novice tka and if this tinkering is a possiblity I'm happy that it was. Considering that you want to have everything listed around the required trees involved it would make tka (a class most feel is overpowered) very overpowered. You don't need 2 handed sword to make it to novice smuggler nor do you need 1 handed or polearm.
If the requirement to attain novice smuggler involved master marksman and master brawler then I would agree with you, but it doesn't.
I'm not basing it on just the prereqs. Yes, we rely on pistols to get through Smuggler as related to experience, but we have plenty of skill points left over to pursue a specialization in combat if we choose to. Here is an example:
Say I have Master Smuggler, Master Rifleman, Medic 4-0-3-0 (Just to use all SPs for the example, not a clue of this would be a decent template or not). As such I have no use for the Dirty Fighting Line, because I would not use pistols, and if Tinkering was implemented for pistols only then I would not be able to utilize that ability either. Yes, I have the prereqs. Yes I have access to some pistols from Marksman. However I choose to fight with a rifle. I do not think we should eliminate this type of person from being able to modify their weapon of choice.
Now, should we allow elite weapons? Preferably the answer would be not in a million years.
Just because the requirements are not Master does not mean that someone who chose to be different and pursued a different combat profession to utilize should be unable to utilize the skills suggested. It would be similar to saying that only pistols could be sliced, in my opinion.
I don't see why a side effect would be necessary.
We are talking aboutweapons that are limited to about 200 dmg max that don't have AP. It's like getting a republic blaster again. It would make older weapons more useful. The stun pistol in marksman might be worth a darn... and generally improve the weapons.
I see no harm in this. If you can show me how it would be harmful, i'm all ears. As we would only be giving AP1 status to weapons that have no AP value, that are located within Marksman or Brawler.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
We are talking aboutweapons that are limited to about 200 dmg max that don't have AP. It's like getting a republic blaster again. It would make older weapons more useful. The stun pistol in marksman might be worth a darn... and generally improve the weapons.
I see no harm in this. If you can show me how it would be harmful, i'm all ears. As we would only be giving AP1 status to weapons that have no AP value, that are located within Marksman or Brawler.
AP is a huge benefit. If we followed the system I set up, where you get about 20 points of skill mods to add to any given weapon, I could see something like that counting for 10-15 of them if there were no range tradeoff. A Scout Blaster with AP becomes more potent than a Republic Blaster (which suffers hugely in the Mitigation sweepstakes due to its wide min/max damage spread). I'm sure that's not what the devs intended. And in any case, if Smugglers want an AP pistol, they can always become a Pistoleer.
I don't know, I'm not ruling it out, I just frown on it at first glance.
Ok I see where you guys are going with this. Leaving pistols only would pretty much favor every smuggler dabbler that is a pistoleer. We don't want to do that. I understand. I just think a lot of problems could arise from this.
Agreed, which is why we are having this discussion 
Recent ideas such as this, and my spice idea in another post are causing me to almost completely rewrite my revamp proposal. I want to do this right. So the more we talk, the more flaws we can find.
baslisks wrote:
I would love to have a smuggler powered VK
That's exactly what I'm against right there. With the ability to dabble any TK will have the option to have a high powered vk. A lot would be put into damage to increase the range. Have it sliced first and that's one badass weapon and one heavily overpowered TK. The ham costs wouldn't be a factor since the damage is so much greater. Of course when there are people who are masters of both tka and smuggler you can expect that comp armor that your enemy bought for 500k to be maybe half as efficient as it used to be.
I did mention that some problems may arise and this is one of them. Also, prices on low level weapons would sky rocket if this was added. As most of you know, I'm not fond of furthering the decline of this economy and this will surely do that.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Agreed, which is why we are having this discussion
Recent ideas such as this, and my spice idea in another post are causing me to almost completely rewrite my revamp proposal. I want to do this right. So the more we talk, the more flaws we can find.
I agree as well.
Also... I'm already.... ummmmmm.... *cough*..... *mumbles* working on rewriting this as well. 
I think it has progressed beyond the rough draft I had and needs to be developed more into a solid proposal, and so am trying to work everything in. Not sure when I'll have it done, so we'll continue to discuss it here as much as possible and I'll incorporate anything mentioned in my rewrite.
(Also want to make sure I covered everything)
If you would like the background information, or just want to read up on how this idea came to be developed, please follow this link.
Smuggler "Tinkering"
A Smuggler makes changes to his or her weapon over time, and each time holds their breath in hopes they do not damage their weapon irreversibly. This weapon is highly illegal, but a Smuggler deals in illegal businees daily, right? What I am suggesting is a system where each progression in "Smuggler Ability" (see Smuggler_Caylin's thread here.) of +20 grants the Smuggler the ability to experiment on their weapon one time. Each experimentation session would allow the smuggler to choose a set of attributes to modify, very similar to weaponsmith's current experimentation at the end of the crafting process, but with far fewer experimentation points. There would be a skill modifier placed in the Slicing Tree at each tier (possibly called Smuggler's Luck?) that would give the Smuggler a better chance at improving the weapon, instead of having a "critical fail." One added ability, would be that a Smuggler could also choose certain modifications related to skills to improve (hard capped at +10) such as dodge, accuracy, etc.
This is how the skill tree would look:
The following is a list of stats that could be tinkered with:
- Weapon Speed
- Weapon Damage
- Dodge
- Counterattack
- Block
- Ranged Defense
- Melee Defense
- Aim
- Accuracy (Including variations such as while moving, standing, prone)
- Defense versus State Attacks
- Armor Piercing**
**NOTE ON ARMOR PIERCING: This would take three tinkering sessions to complete, and would only grant AP1 on a weapon that has no Armor Piercing ability.
Here is an example:
A Master Smuggler decides to "tinker" with his or her weapon. They have the ability to "tinker" 6 times (at each +20 Smuggler Ability Skill achieved, of which a total of +120 can be gained by Mastery). Also, because of being Master, they have the best chance at succeeding (+100 to Smuggler's Luck). On the first attempt they choose to increase Pistol Speed. An experimentation window opens, and the Smuggler has 10 experimentation points to place where they see fit. In this scenario let us say the Smuggler is successful (either success or failure, no variations) and gets a 10% increase in speed (all points attempted in speed, equates to a 1% increase per experimentation point). The Smuggler gets hyped up because of their success. The second attempt is in damage. The Smuggler gains a 10% increase in damage output. The third attempt is to try and add some mods to Dodge. Success, the Pistol now has a +5 Dodge modifier (2 experimentation points are required per +1 mod). The Smuggler seems to be on a roll, and decides to try again. Fourth attempt is a failure, and the weapon is rendered unusable (condition 1/1). The Smuggler had bad luck on that attempt. Granted, more often than not the Master Smuggler would not fail, whereas the Novice would.
Now, how does this keep us from doing this to client weapons and selling them? Very easily. Each experimentation attempt the Smuggler is allowed to name the item, and the serial number is modified to represent that it is not a "normal" weapon. This information is tied into a certification that is created for that Smuggler, and the item becomes non-tradeable (just like the Collector's Edition Goggles).Also in the certification would be what level of Smuggler Ability the Smuggler would need to use the weapon (this keeps people from mastering the profession just to drop it and get the benefit of a tinkered weapon).
An example of how the certification would read is as follows: (This would be shown by examining the weapon)
"This weapon has been modified to be exclusively used by [NAME]"
"This weapon has been tinkered with a total of [X] times."
"This weapon requires a Smuggler Ability rating of [XX] to use."
Now, in addition to this, the Smuggler can slice the wepon before they begin the experimentation process (signifies that a Smuggler will take the time and energy to improve their weapon more than any other) but if the weapon is experimented on it can no longer be sliced, even if it was not sliced prior. A minor detail really, but keeps the slice increases based off of original stats.
Also, only the weapons that can be certified by advancing in the Marksman and Brawler Professions would be able to be tinkered with. This would prevent the possibility of a Commando / Smuggler having an unbalanced weapon in the form of a tinkered flamethrower, or a TKA / Smuggler and a tinkered set of VKs. There are many other examples, these are just the two that came up most often in the disucssion prior.
Now, you'll noticed I referenced two posts, but most of this is a revision of electricnomad's powerup idea. The other post was mentioned because I like the idea of changing the name (and the cert attached to it was also in that idea.)
This probably is too difficult to implement, but it would allow a much larger diversity among Smuggler's and their chosen weapons, and could help provide more content in a contraband sense. After all, these "tinkered" weapons would be highly illegal, and therefore anyone caught with one (which would only be Smugglers who do not manage to evade scans) would be punished. On a side note, I really like the idea Smuggler_Caylin had in his revamp thread about an "Impound" and think that it would fit nicely with this scenario.