Smuggler Archive

How about instead of this...

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Master Smuggler = +15

+8 / +8 / +8 / +8

+6 / +6 / +6/ +6

+4 / +4 / +4 / +4

+2 / +2 / +2 / +2

Novice Smuggler = +5

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Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 03-04-2004 02:57 PM

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

Basically EN's breaks down into 5 differant equal parts. The proposal here asks for 6. By increasing the totalpoint value to 120 as I suggested, we not only address the equal parts to get my mission difficulty accomplished, but the 6 tinkering sessions wanted in this thread.

It would allow novices to at least tinker with their weapon once to begin with. If we tried it with EN's method, it would be only 1/4 of what they needed for their first chance to tinker with a weapon.

True, andI guess we could always have a completely independant modifier that controls it if necessary.

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 03-04-2004 02:57 PM

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While the idea may not be based on the #'s, getting it implemented is. That's why I'm pitching in as much as I am, because I think this shows promise.

To give it #'s helps outline it for the developers, and shows that we have really thought it out

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

While the idea may not be based on the #'s, getting it implemented is. That's why I'm pitching in as much as I am, because I think this shows promise.

To give it #'s helps outline it for the developers, and shows that we have really thought it out

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Heh, true enough. I just wait on numbers until it seems to be an idea that is favored. Slightly different approach I guess.

Really it all comes down to what else is in the tree for mission difficulty, as it can be worked into most schemes. If it comes to a point where there are only two or three tiers of mission difficulty, then it could be given its own modifier, something like Tinkering Skill +X that could be based off of any one of these layouts.

For ease of implementation I think EN's idea with the modifications you suggested would be the most simple way of setting it up.

Well I'm already rewriting my revamp proposal to reflect on some of the things that have been said here. So I think you accomplished having someone favoring it. Or at least what is found here

Thanks Caylin.

Message Edited by Ryutek on 03-04-2004 06:15 PM

You've got my vote!

Firstoff, to return to the original post briefly: I feel strongly that we should not have our own Pistol certification (or melee weapon certification). I feel that someone who wants to become a combat heavy Smuggler should have to pick up Pistoleer as well (or another Elite Weapon class).

I do like the Idea of a specifically tinkered weapon - as has already been mentioned, it is what Slicing for Smugglers should have been from the start - a personal modification, not a saleable skill.

However, I disagree with the spreading of the tinkering over the entire Smuggler tree. While I personally am heading for Master (and most people who post to these boards will have all of Smuggler), I do feel that there needs to be some respect given to those who choose to focus just on one line, and that they deserve to be given access to this to a certain degree.

I would suggest a dual system of "Tinkering" ability in Slicing and the "personal certification" in Dirty Fighting. I don't feel that either Spices (or whatever may become of that line) or Underworld ought to have much influence on this personal side of a Smugglers world.

Also, in line with many other professions common stages of advancement, i don't believe that 6 "Tinkering" steps will be viable. 6 levels of Tinkering will either mean it is too powerful, or will mean that a single level (the one gained at Novice) will be too weak. I would suggest 4 stages, at Novice, Slicing 2, Slicing 4 and Master, as follows;


Novice Smuggler:
* Personal Certification 1
* Personal Modification 1

Dirty Fighting 2:
* Personal Certification 2

Slicing 2:
* Personal Modification 2

Dirty Fighting 4:
* Personal Certification 3

Slicing 3:
* Personal Modification 3

Master Smuggler:
* Personal Certification 4
* Personal Modification 4


The main reason I feel this will work is that I feel Personal Modifications can only be held one at a time each - but Personal certification only needs to check for the number of Personal Modifications on the current weapon. Therefore a Smuggler with just Slicing 4 (a dabbler) could have 4 different Personally Modifyed weapons, and could use each 1 as they would require only Personal Certification 1 to use.

A Master Smuggler on the other hand could create a weapon with 4 Personal Modifications and use it.

The concept of Personally Modified Flamerthrowers makes me shudder however.

Comments Please?

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Jez3an wrote:
Firstoff, to return to the original post briefly: I feel strongly that we should not have our own Pistol certification (or melee weapon certification). I feel that someone who wants to become a combat heavy Smuggler should have to pick up Pistoleer as well (or another Elite Weapon class).

I do like the Idea of a specifically tinkered weapon - as has already been mentioned, it is what Slicing for Smugglers should have been from the start - a personal modification, not a saleable skill.

However, I disagree with the spreading of the tinkering over the entire Smuggler tree. While I personally am heading for Master (and most people who post to these boards will have all of Smuggler), I do feel that there needs to be some respect given to those who choose to focus just on one line, and that they deserve to be given access to this to a certain degree.

I do not dispute that everyone should have a limited ability to pursue this, but I cannot say I agree with having it in a fashion where someone can take half of the class and be just about as good at modifying their weapon as a Master.

I would suggest a dual system of "Tinkering" ability in Slicing and the "personal certification" in Dirty Fighting. I don't feel that either Spices (or whatever may become of that line) or Underworld ought to have much influence on this personal side of a Smugglers world.

I do not feel that Spices or Underworld in their abilities should play a role per say, but I do feel that they should contribute to teh Smuggler's overall abilities, which is what tinkering with their weapon should be viewed as. I do not believe that having a modifier in these trees that compliments the abilities of the profession as a whole to be something that should not influence the final outcome. The only example I can really provide (based on the current game professions and mechanics, instead of trying to explain logical reasoning for myself) is the progression of the Creature Handler profession to date. In order to be really good at controlling a pet you must invest the skill points necessary, which is all I am asking for out of the tinkering ability I have proposed. Why would a Slicer/Rogue be almost as good as a Master when modifying their weapon? More in a moment, because this sort of ties into the next section.

Also, in line with many other professions common stages of advancement, i don't believe that 6 "Tinkering" steps will be viable. 6 levels of Tinkering will either mean it is too powerful, or will mean that a single level (the one gained at Novice) will be too weak. I would suggest 4 stages, at Novice, Slicing 2, Slicing 4 and Master, as follows;

Continued from above to an extent: Having 6 stages allows the improvements to be small between each improvement, but a significant increase on the final product versus the original specifications, but with more wait being given to the final tinkering at Master. This would mean that someone could easily only do part of the profession and get a decent bonus to their persoanl weapon, but would reserve the best improvements for those who are continuing on until mastery. This represents that a Smuggler is always looking for ways to improve his odds, so to speak, and therefore continues to make small improvements to his (or her, just to be correct) weapon of choice.


Novice Smuggler:
* Personal Certification 1
* Personal Modification 1

Dirty Fighting 2:
* Personal Certification 2

Slicing 2:
* Personal Modification 2

Dirty Fighting 4:
* Personal Certification 3

Slicing 3:
* Personal Modification 3

Master Smuggler:
* Personal Certification 4
* Personal Modification 4


The main reason I feel this will work is that I feel Personal Modifications can only be held one at a time each - but Personal certification only needs to check for the number of Personal Modifications on the current weapon. Therefore a Smuggler with just Slicing 4 (a dabbler) could have 4 different Personally Modifyed weapons, and could use each 1 as they would require only Personal Certification 1 to use.

The only problem here is that the final implementation would only be for one weapon of choice, and you would not be able to modify another weapon until that weapon was destroyed. (Debate is still open to allowing 2 weapons, I just cannot find a way to justify it). I'm not saying I do not like your idea, I just do not feel that it adequately represents my envisionment of the progression of a Smuggler's skills (and yes, my opinion so we can't really argue on that note, because irregardless we are both going to feel our opinion is the better option ).

A Master Smuggler on the other hand could create a weapon with 4 Personal Modifications and use it.

The concept of Personally Modified Flamerthrowers makes me shudder however.

Same here, but if you invest the skill points then I guess that is your perogative. I know it is one of those things that is just going to be unavoidable.

Comments Please?

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Ryutek wrote:

I do not dispute that everyone should have a limited ability to pursue this, but I cannot say I agree with having it in a fashion where someone can take half of the class and be just about as good at modifying their weapon as a Master.

3/4s as good. And I originally considered only having 3 stages, but then could not figure out a reason to only have the steps at Novice, 4 and Master - if it were to be in line with many other professions, it would have to be Novice, 3 and Master. Such would mean that any non-master was only 2/3rds as powerful as a Master though.

I do not feel that Spices or Underworld in their abilities should play a role per say, but I do feel that they should contribute to teh Smuggler's overall abilities, which is what tinkering with their weapon should be viewed as. I do not believe that having a modifier in these trees that compliments the abilities of the profession as a whole to be something that should not influence the final outcome. The only example I can really provide (based on the current game professions and mechanics, instead of trying to explain logical reasoning for myself) is the progression of the Creature Handler profession to date. In order to be really good at controlling a pet you must invest the skill points necessary, which is all I am asking for out of the tinkering ability I have proposed. Why would a Slicer/Rogue be almost as good as a Master when modifying their weapon? More in a moment, because this sort of ties into the next section.

I can see your point here, but I fail to agree with it, quite simply on the grounds that while CH deals with their pets and gets their pets as the major or greatest benefit of their profession, There are or should be other benefits to be gained from different sections of the Smuggler tree that must be greater than the Tinkering of a pistol, otherwise we will be no more than a one trick pony.

Continued from above to an extent: Having 6 stages allows the improvements to be small between each improvement, but a significant increase on the final product versus the original specifications, but with more wait being given to the final tinkering at Master. This would mean that someone could easily only do part of the profession and get a decent bonus to their persoanl weapon, but would reserve the best improvements for those who are continuing on until mastery. This represents that a Smuggler is always looking for ways to improve his odds, so to speak, and therefore continues to make small improvements to his (or her, just to be correct) weapon of choice.

As I mentioned, I feel that only having 1/6th of the availablility of this perk at Novice will unavoidable sell short the Novice Smugglers - something that will not affect many of us here, but will damage those coming into the profession later, who we have to consider, as this process of fixing the profession cannot be just for our own benefit.

The only problem here is that the final implementation would only be for one weapon of choice, and you would not be able to modify another weapon until that weapon was destroyed. (Debate is still open to allowing 2 weapons, I just cannot find a way to justify it). I'm not saying I do not like your idea, I just do not feel that it adequately represents my envisionment of the progression of a Smuggler's skills (and yes, my opinion so we can't really argue on that note, because irregardless we are both going to feel our opinion is the better option ).

As I say I don't feel that the idea of spreading it out accross the entire profession is at all realistic to the way I see a Smugglers skills as progressing. I feel the relation between Slicing (the modification of the weapon) and Dirty fighting (the use of the weapon) is the best way forward. I have just had the idea that you could represent the number of Sliced Personal Weapons a Smuggler can viably have without getting caught could be represented on the Underworld Tree (1 Personal Weapon at Novice, 2 at Slicing 2, 3 at Slicing 4 and 4 at Master - an idea that just sprang into my head ) and this would require 3/4 of Smuggler to gain the absolute maximum effect from the ability to create these weapons.

Same here, but if you invest the skill points then I guess that is your perogative. I know it is one of those things that is just going to be unavoidable.

Yes - always nice to find something we can agree on though

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Please include this in the revamp letter. I think this is an amazing IDEA>

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Ryutek wrote:

While I love the idea of a single weapon, I think it should at least allow two. I was thinking about this earlier, and with the variety of resists and levels of armor I really think a single weapon done this way may be a slight handicap.

I personally still think a single weapon is the way to go, as it shows how a smuggler favors HIS weapon and no other. Not sure, I'm still thinking about this part...

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I didn't say a Smuggler couldn't carry or use other weapons, he just has one that's "his baby."

Han made use of the Stormtrooper's weapon when he needed it, but that DL44 was still right there on his hip.

Renn Jeret
Master Smuggler
Radiant