Smuggler Archive

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Althus_Alen wrote:

There should be no one shot PvP kills.

Saying it is limited by low health means nothing except I don't heal and let my opponent take me down to the optimum health to fire LD.

Jedi are annoyed for two reasons - no amour and BH use. First one is obvious, the second is a BH taking the same mission over and over until they land a LD. There is no penalty to the BH for doing this, yet the Jedi has a lot to lose. Landing the LD takes no skill and the only counter is to know which BH have LD and run away on sight. That is hardly a solution, no matter how much the people who object to Jedi on principle would agree with it. Btw, to those people - why do you not complain about the number of TKA's? But I digress.

To reiterate, there should be no one shot PvP kills in this kind of game. Either cap the PvP damage below a players max health or remove it from PvP entirely.

I do feel for smugglers though, your problem is that your skills are used by other classes in unexpected (by the Devs) ways. The PvP situation with BH/Jedi and the ability of a BH to pick up MS skills means this will always be a problem. Are you sure you want smugglers to be hunted by BH when, after 2 years, they still can't balance BH vs Jedi

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Yeah, we're sure. For one thing, it's the MDef template being so out of whack that's causing BHs to favor 5-1 odds and search for attacks like this to use. This causes no issue with Smuggler bounties. Second, we as a community do not have a very adverse relationship to BHs tat would cause them to do their level best to do anything they can to kill us as much as possible. In fact, we were *collaborating* with them on the Smuggler BH proposal. For another, we don't feel that killing our attackers is the win situation. For another, you assume far too much in saying LD is unbalanced anyway. I've been hit with it, I've died to it, I've killed with it, I've failed with it. HOWEVER, it took myself and the people I was practicing PvP with TWO DAYS to figure out how to keep it from being used. Two days of play, and every one of us knows exactly how to render it to near uselessness. Which does NOT involve running away. A secret we've gone the frankly, quite STUPID lengths to of sharing with everyone else. For yet another, term missions might be unbalanced, but at least it would be smuggler-ish content. After 2 years.

And finally, claiming LD takes no skill to land successfully only shows how little you know about the skill. And it's still not a one-shot kill. The jedi that complain about the power of this skill are vastly overstating the case, and I strongly believe based on my and other smugglers' experience with this special that it is COMPLETELY un-representative of what we can typically expect from it. The fact that while Jedi claim this is a PvP thing, noone else seeming to care about it tells me it isn't a PvP thing, it's a Jedi/BH thing. Noone but jedi complain about LD. I've killed many people with it who aren't Jedi. I've been killed by many more people when trying to use it as intended and getting a failure. Not ONE person has complained when it took them down. They've expressed surprise, awe, perhaps, that smuggler is now actually a THREAT, but not one person as told me it needs a nerf. Except a bunch of Jedi.

Message Edited by CapnKate on 05-14-2005 03:46 PM

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darevsool wrote in Last Ditch Test Duel results:

The 'argument' thread got me curious about this skill, which up until now I have been avoiding, because I was using it incorrectly (as an opening attack, thusly draining my health and getting me incap'd)

I have 2 master smuggler toons, which I logged at the same time, and had duel each other. Dolan (zabrak), character #1, wearing Ubese recon armor (5200/7200/5212) with a health bar of 3190 using a DL44xt with max (energy) damage of 889 (no powerup) Also master pistoleer

Blocade (wookiee), character #2, wearing Ceremonial recon armor (4742/6742/5742) with a health bar of 3250 using an assault bowcaster with max (kinetic) damage of 1142 (no powerup) Also master rifleman Here's how the duels went:

Dolan challenges, Blocade accepts and shoots first. Bowcaster does kin damage, wearing Dolan down quickly. Dolan shoots off LD and hits Blocade for a total of 3429. Blocade's armor absorbed 1788 of that damage, and took a hit for 1640, about 1/2 his total health bar. Blocade auto fires ranged shot back at Dolan and incaps dolan.

Round 2:
Blocade challenges, Dolan accepts and shoots first. DL44xt, doing energy damage, is slower to wear Blocade down. Blocade uses LD and hits Dolan for a total of 6837 damage. Dolan's armor absorbed 2838pts of damage, leaving his health bar drained by 3988...exceeding his 3190 max health, one shot incap'ing Dolan.

To me, LD seems to be working as it's intended. There is more to combat now than the DPS your weapon does. You have to know what type of damage your oppenents armor usually is worst at blocking, you have to have a high max damage weapon that does that type of damage (DPS is not the end-all value of weapons, but rather a general guide as to how you'll be able to use the weapon).

Blocade was able to one shot Dolan because of 2 reasons. The assault bowcaster has such a high damage value, and Dolan's armor isn't very useful against kinetic damage.

Dolan was NOT able to one shot Blocade because he had an energy weapon of only average damage output, and Blocade's armor has energy resists as the highest level.

I'm going to re-test round 1 with dolan using a FWG (kin damage) to see how much of a difference that makes.

Ok...round 3...Dolan using the FWG5 pistol with 854 max damage: Blocade shoots first (using energy rifle to give me more time) and Dolan uses LD and hits Blocade for a total of 4139 damage to his health.
For some reason the combat log didn't show any armor/damage absorbing stats....either way Dolan was able to one-shot Blocade with a simple change in tactics...which I think is what the whole CU thing was supposed to promote.

Message Edited by darevsool on 05-15-200503:56 AM

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:

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Last Ditch is not supposed to be predictable. If it were predictable, it would no longer be a "Last Ditch Assault". You're trying to depend on a skill that has no guarantee of working. That's what the problem is. Sometimes it'll hit, sometimes it won't. Sometimes it'll do a good deal of damage if your health is very low, sometimes it won't. Sometimes you'll cap yourself and your opponent will still be up and about...

I dunno if this is a bug, but someone on Bria claims that if you use Last Ditch against padded armor, it show the damage spam in the combat log but will not actually harm the target!!!!

He told me, then he did it to me. The shot showed 3200 in the combat spam, but I was untouched!

Now, I want everyone to understand me, so I will use bold, italic, underlining, yellow text, a larger text size, numerous exclamiation points(including the number "one" for good measure), and capslock to make certain my point is clear.

LAST DITCH IS NOT A ONE-SHOT KILL!!!1!!!!11!!!

Last Ditch requires the user to have the everlasting piss beaten outta him before it even has a chance of doing moderate damage, that's IF it even lands. If a Bounty Hunter wanted to use it as a one-shot kill, he would need the Jedi he was hunting to initiate attack, and would also need to not return fire untill he reached the point where he's about to die. The closest this scenario would come to would be the Hunter initiating combat, and letting his prey knock him senseless, then try to get it to work, which is not even guaranteed to hit. In both of these situations, the Hunter is being an utter idiot.

Let me re-iterate, the only way Last Ditch becomes a "One-Shot Kill", is for someone to initiate combat with the Last Ditch-user, the Last Ditch user then must not attack in any way, untill he is so close to death, that Last Ditch has the potential to cause a lot of damage, if he can make it hit.

From this point forward, information I deem as important enough for this topic, will be edited into the originating post.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Now, I want everyone to understand me, so I will use bold, italic, underlining, yellow text, a larger text size, numerous exclamiation points(including the number "one" for good measure), and capslock to make certain my point is clear.

LAST DITCH IS NOT A ONE-SHOT KILL!!!1!!!!11!!!

Last Ditch requires the user to have the everlasting piss beaten outta him before it even has a chance of doing moderate damage, that's IF it even lands. If a Bounty Hunter wanted to use it as a one-shot kill, he would need the Jedi he was hunting to initiate attack, and would also need to not return fire untill he reached the point where he's about to die. The closest this scenario would come to would be the Hunter initiating combat, and letting his prey knock him senseless, then try to get it to work, which is not even guaranteed to hit. In both of these situations, the Hunter is being an utter idiot.

Let me re-iterate, the only way Last Ditch becomes a "One-Shot Kill", is for someone to initiate combat with the Last Ditch-user, the Last Ditch user then must not attack in any way, untill he is so close to death, that Last Ditch has the potential to cause a lot of damage, if he can make it hit.

From this point forward, information I deem as important enough for this topic, will be edited into the originating post.

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No thats not how LD works, I Dueled a Jedi Knight on my server the other night and used plenty of special attacks before I finally LD'd. I hit him for 3200 pts dmg and incaped him and did not incap myself. Before you Jedi cry nerf understand that whenever I use last ditch I say its only successful 1/5 of the time. Somtimes I get lucky and get 2 in a row but the way last ditch works is completly random. Instead of looking at the combat log, look at the player you are shooting. Above his head youl see the damage number or see a big MISS above his head. Its a very random special.

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JWing wrote:
I agree with everything above.

Several times last night in battle I "depended" on Last Ditch to save me.

That was my 1st mistake..


Because when it misses (and it does), your smoked.

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I'm personally fine with it being less, and having the chance of incapacitating us. Seriously, where's your sense of adventure?