Smuggler Archive
Thread: BAH! For Those Wondering About the Commando Before Smuggler Thing...
"Commando really has received nothing in those 2.5 years except one nerf at the beginning.Smuggler at least has an EXTREMELY VIABLE role in combat right now and any group running without ibe us a group of idiots."
Commando got a boost in the CU. Yes, AOE is broken but it gained several good weapons including the rocketlauncher which KD's on every shot which is far more than Smugglers gaining panic and concussion only to lose last ditch as a viable move and gained a damage move that does little damage and reduces your defense in the process.
"Commando AOE doesn't even work. They have no shot to do any damage withexcept RangedShot."
Commando is not supposed to be a stand-alone profression just like Squadron Leader. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with another elite ranged profression. The OTHER ranged profression gives you the specials, Commando gives you the heavier weapons. If Commando were to gain specials it would become far too overpowered and instead wind up nerfed. Which would you prefer? Specials that are weak with weak crappy weapons or good weapons that when linked with another profression like Rifleman makes you one of the highest damage templates?
Smuggler is also a support profression. This is why it also has no real viable damage specials. If you are stupid enough to chose a tempalte consisting of two support profressions and wonder why you arnt doing any damage then go bang your head against a wall until it knocks enough sense into you to drop either smuggler or commando and pick up rifleman or carbineer.
The job of a commando is to go kill something. Guess what? You can do that.
The job a Smuggler is to smuggle something. Guess what? we CAN'T do that.
Smuggler is the ONLY profression existing in this game that can't do the one thing it's name suggests. Until that is changed nothing else should be given any higher priority.
As for everyone bashing Nick ... I quite agree with him. I've been here pretty much from day one and not only gone through the Smuggler issues but the Droid Engineer issues too. I know all to well how this development team ignore the "star warsy" content for crap they think will make them a few extra pennies. It distrubs me that ranger and smuggler concepts get posted and the ranger ones gets dev attention for weeks on end yet the Smuggler one gets completly ignored and lets face it, if we are to get something in November then it will be an immense let down, seriously bugged and a half-arsed version of what they suggest (just like the slicing system) since they are leaving it so late to even put it to Test Center that it simply isn't even getting testing time.
This is Jack's ignored profression.
I stated before do not confuse commandos with a certain person or people. Commandos as a majority do not want a revamp before the smugglers. I and many others do want to see a fix to AE before smuggler missions are put in however. Of course if it happens in revers I really don't care, as long as AE gets fixed, or we get some single target specials to make us useful in groups again.
My ideal timeline would simply be AE fix then Smuggler revamp and then continue with the revamps. Until our damage is fixed though commando isn't powering up anything but aggro.
Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:
"As a Smuggler Commando I am hoping that Commando is addressed first as I have received a Slicing Update and my specials are the most effective Crowd Control Specials in the game. Accompanied with Commando and it is devastating against a Crowd."
Any "crowd control" special that breaks on damage is quite effectively usless a good 8 times out of 10. For one there are a lot of things that are immune to concussion and panic such as the elite bosses like necrossis and then ofcourse the fact that the debuff timers for both panic and concussion last almost as long as the mezzed state itself. When the CU first hit, concussion was by far one of the best moves in the game. Now its barely worth using unless you are so under-powered you need to freeze something for 40 seconds to flee or heal.
"Commando really has received nothing in those 2.5 years except one nerf at the beginning.Smuggler at least has an EXTREMELY VIABLE role in combat right now and any group running without ibe us a group of idiots."
Commando got a boost in the CU. Yes, AOE is broken but it gained several good weapons including the rocketlauncher which KD's on every shot which is far more than Smugglers gaining panic and concussion only to lose last ditch as a viable move and gained a damage move that does little damage and reduces your defense in the process.
Commando received no BOOST during the CU. The Rocket Launcher stats are 150-300 so whether it KDs or not in consequential it cannot do damage. The only thing that does DECENT damage is a Flamethrower or Proton Rifle
"Commando AOE doesn't even work. They have no shot to do any damage withexcept RangedShot."
Commando is not supposed to be a stand-alone profression just like Squadron Leader. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with another elite ranged profression. The OTHER ranged profression gives you the specials, Commando gives you the heavier weapons. If Commando were to gain specials it would become far too overpowered and instead wind up nerfed. Which would you prefer? Specials that are weak with weak crappy weapons or good weapons that when linked with another profression like Rifleman makes you one of the highest damage templates?
Actually COMMANDO is the only other Profession besides SMuggler requiring both Ranged and Melee so they are in the samer boat as Smuggler. That being the case I don't understand what you mean here. Even if we could use a special it would be with a weapon NO BETTER than a decent Rifle or Pistol AND the MINIMUM SAC COST on any Commando Weapon is 100 compared to 82-75 of other ranged weapons.
Smuggler is also a support profression. This is why it also has no real viable damage specials. If you are stupid enough to chose a tempalte consisting of two support profressions and wonder why you arnt doing any damage then go bang your head against a wall until it knocks enough sense into you to drop either smuggler or commando and pick up rifleman or carbineer.
Go watch my videos I don't worry about damage. Whether I do or not doesn't really matter. what matters is the treatment of the Profession by a Dev Team who has made many changes to Smuggler. The complaint always goes back to "we still can't Smuggle"> Ok you still can't smuggle. Commandos, who are supposed to be the experts at close quarters combat CANNOT PERFORM CLOSE QUARTERS COMBAT.
The job of a commando is to go kill something. Guess what? You can do that. No I can't I have no Specials and if I get the specials I barely have healing unlike a Ranged Doct or CM template.
The job a Smuggler is to smuggle something. Guess what? we CAN'T do that. I can wait as I don't PvE that much nor does smuggling affect my ability to do ANYTHING in the current build of this game.
Smuggler is the ONLY profression existing in this game that can't do the one thing it's name suggests. Until that is changed nothing else should be given any higher priority. Smuggler also has 3 subnames or Fixer Slicer and Fence and you can do all 3 of those. Commandos can't DEMOLISH anything. Heavy Infantry with a slow weapon with high sac and no specials...umm yeha ok.
As for everyone bashing Nick ... I quite agree with him. I've been here pretty much from day one and not only gone through the Smuggler issues but the Droid Engineer issues too. I know all to well how this development team ignore the "star warsy" content for crap they think will make them a few extra pennies. It distrubs me that ranger and smuggler concepts get posted and the ranger ones gets dev attention for weeks on end yet the Smuggler one gets completly ignored and lets face it, if we are to get something in November then it will be an immense let down, seriously bugged and a half-arsed version of what they suggest (just like the slicing system) since they are leaving it so late to even put it to Test Center that it simply isn't even getting testing time.
This is Jack's ignored profression. Then he is a Commando too because at least smugglers goit slicing changes, can craft wares to sell, and still have the viability in PvP to win.
RyFord wrote:
Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:
"As a Smuggler Commando I am hoping that Commando is addressed first as I have received a Slicing Update and my specials are the most effective Crowd Control Specials in the game. Accompanied with Commando and it is devastating against a Crowd."
Any "crowd control" special that breaks on damage is quite effectively usless a good 8 times out of 10. For one there are a lot of things that are immune to concussion and panic such as the elite bosses like necrossis and then ofcourse the fact that the debuff timers for both panic and concussion last almost as long as the mezzed state itself. When the CU first hit, concussion was by far one of the best moves in the game. Now its barely worth using unless you are so under-powered you need to freeze something for 40 seconds to flee or heal.
"Commando really has received nothing in those 2.5 years except one nerf at the beginning.Smuggler at least has an EXTREMELY VIABLE role in combat right now and any group running without ibe us a group of idiots."
Commando got a boost in the CU. Yes, AOE is broken but it gained several good weapons including the rocketlauncher which KD's on every shot which is far more than Smugglers gaining panic and concussion only to lose last ditch as a viable move and gained a damage move that does little damage and reduces your defense in the process.
Commando received no BOOST during the CU. The Rocket Launcher stats are 150-300 so whether it KDs or not in consequential it cannot do damage. The only thing that does DECENT damage is a Flamethrower or Proton Rifle Wow, some boost we Smugglers got. Crowd control is bugged in PvP.(Dev statment) We're support professions.
"Commando AOE doesn't even work. They have no shot to do any damage withexcept RangedShot."
Commando is not supposed to be a stand-alone profression just like Squadron Leader. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with another elite ranged profression. The OTHER ranged profression gives you the specials, Commando gives you the heavier weapons. If Commando were to gain specials it would become far too overpowered and instead wind up nerfed. Which would you prefer? Specials that are weak with weak crappy weapons or good weapons that when linked with another profression like Rifleman makes you one of the highest damage templates?
Actually COMMANDO is the only other Profession besides SMuggler requiring both Ranged and Melee so they are in the samer boat as Smuggler. That being the case I don't understand what you mean here. Even if we could use a special it would be with a weapon NO BETTER than a decent Rifle or Pistol AND the MINIMUM SAC COST on any Commando Weapon is 100 compared to 82-75 of other ranged weapons.
Smuggler is also a support profression. This is why it also has no real viable damage specials. If you are stupid enough to chose a tempalte consisting of two support profressions and wonder why you arnt doing any damage then go bang your head against a wall until it knocks enough sense into you to drop either smuggler or commando and pick up rifleman or carbineer.
Go watch my videos I don't worry about damage. Whether I do or not doesn't really matter. what matters is the treatment of the Profession by a Dev Team who has made many changes to Smuggler. The complaint always goes back to "we still can't Smuggle"> Ok you still can't smuggle. Commandos, who are supposed to be the experts at close quarters combat CANNOT PERFORM CLOSE QUARTERS COMBAT.
The job of a commando is to go kill something. Guess what? You can do that. No I can't I have no Specials and if I get the specials I barely have healing unlike a Ranged Doct or CM template. Ummm, pair commando with something else. For example, maybe Carbineer. Could you do a Leg shot with a Plasma FT? Could you kill something with commando? YES.
The job a Smuggler is to smuggle something. Guess what? we CAN'T do that. I can wait as I don't PvE that much nor does smuggling affect my ability to do ANYTHING in the current build of this game. Pair smuggler with ANY other profession in the entire game. Can Smuggler smuggle? NO. Imperial Blockades, Imperial Crackdown, ect... AKA Smuggling should effect everyone. Lack of a GCW and underwold severely undermines this.
Smuggler is the ONLY profression existing in this game that can't do the one thing it's name suggests. Until that is changed nothing else should be given any higher priority. Smuggler also has 3 subnames or Fixer Slicer and Fence and you can do all 3 of those. Commandos can't DEMOLISH anything. Heavy Infantry with a slow weapon with high sac and no specials...umm yeha ok. What about my Master Smuggler title? Huh? That's what the whole profession is named for! Smuggling! See any of that going on? Nope.
As for everyone bashing Nick ... I quite agree with him. I've been here pretty much from day one and not only gone through the Smuggler issues but the Droid Engineer issues too. I know all to well how this development team ignore the "star warsy" content for crap they think will make them a few extra pennies. It distrubs me that ranger and smuggler concepts get posted and the ranger ones gets dev attention for weeks on end yet the Smuggler one gets completly ignored and lets face it, if we are to get something in November then it will be an immense let down, seriously bugged and a half-arsed version of what they suggest (just like the slicing system) since they are leaving it so late to even put it to Test Center that it simply isn't even getting testing time.
This is Jack's ignored profression. Then he is a Commando too because at least smugglers goit slicing changes, can craft wares to sell, and still have the viability in PvP to win.Most of us don't like the slicing changes. They were rushed, ill-thought out, and did not adhere to our hue in concept thread. Most, except two or three of our spices are redundant. You can barely sell crates of this crap on the bazaar for 5k. Smugglers aren't supposed to be mobile meth labs, as I have been named by my guild once.... Viability in PvP? Yeah, right! Crowd-control is borked. Concussion shot had been nerfed almost useless. It breaks on damage, has a huge (almost the length of the mez) recharge, and people can still use stims while mezzed. Jedi, and other professions can EXPLOIT to bring us out of feign death. Wow, we got a pistol. Too bad it's almost the same as many others, and takes more enhancements than the others, too....
"Actually COMMANDO is the only other Profession besides SMuggler requiring both Ranged and Melee so they are in the samer boat as Smuggler. That being the case I don't understand what you mean here. Even if we could use a special it would be with a weapon NO BETTER than a decent Rifle or Pistol AND the MINIMUM SAC COST on any Commando Weapon is 100 compared to 82-75 of other ranged weapons."
RyFord wrote:
Hummm my post disapeared in here why? Definitly wasn't flaming/trolling so what could have caused this? Anyone elses posthere vanish?
- Rudakus
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I took up novice Commando, purely for the AOE ability with concussion shot and stopping shot. I beleive Commando is Smugglers' *****.... And I feel that Commando got all the love they need because they have AOE for me to use in pvp and be better... Because the launcher pistol has cool effects, I think that the Commandos duty as a proffesion is fulfilled, because that's all I really care about.
So there! How do you like me now?
Message Edited by gassygunslinger on 10-02-2005 08:31 PM
SmugglinZane wrote:
It's a moot point. Commando WILL be fixed before Smuggler. It doesn't matter how long we've been waiting or who's more broken or anything else.
You may be right, as it may just come down to what's easier/quicker to do.'Slideing a bar' to increase damage on weapons (OK I realise it's a little more complicated than that, but come on) for Commandos doesn't seem to be something you need to put alot of thought into. We Smuggler's however, aren't just after a fix. We need a large set of specific content to be integrated into the game. That takes a little more thinking about.
Message Edited by coldreboot on 10-03-2005 11:26 AM
Message Edited by Iawo on 10-03-2005 08:43 AM
TomoRainer wrote:
At the risk of repeating a half dozen other dudes, the smugglers who're in it for the smuggling don't really care if they got nice specials in the CU. That's cool and all, but it really wasn't what they're after. They're still not smugglers in any meaningful sense of the word.
So, right. Any arguments about X having gotten something while Y hasn't gotten anything aren't really relevant to a large portion of this community. You could argue the legitimacy of that position, but when all a great many smugglers want to do is smuggle, pointing out their improved combat role doesn't prove anything. That's not what they're here for.