Smuggler Archive
Thread: Wes, you might already be aware of this...
LordMaxx wrote:
It has never been my intention to diminish Smugglers or Bounty Hunters. The unfortunate truth is that Pistoleer by itself is a very weak profession.
LordMaxx wrote:
Zhagadska wrote:
ummm....dont think you'll find too many smugglers that agree with that. i mean pistoleeers at least get to use pistols. smugglers dont smuggle.
LordMaxx wrote:
Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone...
True you guys have been needing your revamp for a while too...but thats why we have correspondents for everyone
Wow Skipped over again for what. Lets see First Droids then next Chef. then BH fixes, then Jedi revamp (yeah great one on that by the way ....yeah right) and now the combat revamp. So after the combat revamp we will be fixed right??? Oh no wait we have no combat skills worth dog crap. I know Scout looks kinda broken I don't like the colors of the tents lets fix that before smuggler too
UMMM if we have been needing a revamp for a while and that why we have correspondents for, are you trying to say ours DO NOT DO THIER JOB? Sounds like it to me. But wait since we change them like the dev change their promises I guess it most likely isn't his fault either.
I would love a pistoleer revamp as I'm a Master however STAND IN LINE Like we have to.
ana-mo-cara wrote:You know the whole stand alone argument kind of baffles me. What does this actually mean. Okay here is how I see it. The more combat you take up the more you can handle. Okay lets say a master marksman can just handle a mountain squill. You get a line in pistoleer you should be able to handle 2 mountain squill. If you master pistoleer you should be able to handle 3 mountain squills. Sadly you should not be able to handle a graul mauler. I know its hard to see in this out of whack game, but there was a semblance of this earlier in the game. When players actually took into account creature levels. I used to have crafters tell me this all the time. Man I wish I could go do fort tusken with you guys, but all I have is master marksman and I die there really fast unless there is a large group fighting.People actually bothered to know their professions limitations. Its not like you were really denied content. His unicorn is lower then my unicorn. He has difficulty with bocatt lairs. I do not my unicorn is dragonette lairs. Unicorn being the really hard fight. The goal that is really beyond your level.Is there a reason that any low cost profession should be looking for stand alone status. They are good professions for master crafters who do not have the points to be elite combats, and they can be addons to elite professions so that an elite combat could make a complimentary template. Were these professions ever meant to be standalone, or where they more designed to allow players to mix and match, or if the character was a crafter to have a decent combat class aswell?I think as a community we have gotten a little spoiled expecting that no matter what we take we should be able to own anything we want. Personally I always thought the cool bonus of getting alot of combat was that you were one bad mofo that could handle yourself in the middle of creature level 30 beasts. Something a lower class couldnt do.
"Stand alone" Doesn't mean we want each profession capable of taking on a Krayt Dragon solo. It means we want each elite profession to be capable of dealing decent amounts of damage or surviving a fight in its own way. In other words, Pistoleers, while not dealing as much damage per shot as a Rifleman, should be able to make up for that by being capable of dealing thier damage *much* faster, to keep up with said Rifleman. Maybe something such as firing fast enough to hit three or four times for every shot a Rifleman fires. That's what we mean by stand alone.
If the Rifleman and Pistoleer are both masters, and carry awesome weapons for thier class, then they should both be capable of taking out the same MOB, but relying on different tactics. I won't go into detail on that one CURB document that got seen by some of us Smugglers(in which the thread was deleted, rather quickly), but looking at it, you can see that each class should be capable of taking down said MOB in thier own seperate way. Whether it be a simple Squill, or something a bit tougher. While some creatures and NPCs shouldn't be capable of being soloed, those that should be, while remaining a challance, should prove just as dangerous to the fore-mentioned Pistoleer as the likewise Rifleman. That's the current problem we're talking about, and which is (hopefully)being taken care of in the CURB. One class which is just so uber over all others when it shouldn't be.
No, I'm not saying Nerf Riflemen, nor am I saying uberize Pistoler(or Smuggler, for that matter). I'm simply saying that they should do the same basic thing, but different ways.
Ternque01 wrote:
Put all the mods into Pistoleer. Put a significant amount of mods in Novice Pistoleer.
Put "ensnaring" and DoT specials in BH.
Put "evasive" and damage specials in smuggler.
By picking up Novice Pistoleer, a player interested in leveling quickly as a BH or smuggler will be able to do so.
This system ensures that Pistoleer is a standalone combat profession, while at the same time giving perks to BH and Smuggler without inbalancing the game.
Simple really.
Bravo Ternque... I was reading this post just dieing for someone to come up with a decent observation or suggestion that didn't involve a whine about this profession or that. I disagree with the DoT special part, but for the most part, this is what I believe these professions should be based on, andfrom what I've seen written, what they were intended to be. I'll further the message by saying this. Pistoleers should get stationary defensive mods, BHs moving attack mods, and Smugglers moving defensive mods. What am I saying by this, BHs are proficient in chasing their prey, Smugglers are proficient at avoiding trouble, and no ranged profession should see moving mods period.
Zane
SmugglinZane wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Put all the mods into Pistoleer. Put a significant amount of mods in Novice Pistoleer.
Put "ensnaring" and DoT specials in BH.
Put "evasive" and damage specials in smuggler.
By picking up Novice Pistoleer, a player interested in leveling quickly as a BH or smuggler will be able to do so.
This system ensures that Pistoleer is a standalone combat profession, while at the same time giving perks to BH and Smuggler without inbalancing the game.
Simple really.
Bravo Ternque... I was reading this post just dieing for someone to come up with a decent observation or suggestion that didn't involve a whine about this profession or that. I disagree with the DoT special part, but for the most part, this is what I believe these professions should be based on, andfrom what I've seen written, what they were intended to be. I'll further the message by saying this. Pistoleers should get stationary defensive mods, BHs moving attack mods, and Smugglers moving defensive mods. What am I saying by this, BHs are proficient in chasing their prey, Smugglers are proficient at avoiding trouble, and no ranged profession should see moving mods period.
Zane
Awww,thanks Zane. I like your ideas, but you would run into the problem of a person picking up pistoleer, BH, and smuggler. They would be the ultimate in firepower and defense on the run - could be inbalancing.
I also think that BH's do need DoT specials. They already have Torso Shot and Bleeding Shot. I think they need these DoT attacks because killing a Jedi without any kind of DoT is futile. Only 15% of your shots would get through saber block. They need the tools to do their jobs.
Hasun wrote:
then to stop cookie cutter templates, why not move all combat out of smuggler and Bounty Hunter, reduce there requirements and let them choose which route they want to go down. Some smugglers may not want to fight and could become crafting profession/smuggler. Bounty hunters combat lines could be changed to trapping, tracking, disguising and with those skills pick up whatever combat profession they wanted to enhancethere skills.
This would open up both professions and reduce dabbling?
what do you think?
I don't like to be mean, I try not to, but that is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard anyone say that wasn't a glowbat swinging 1337whore.
Do a lot of people play this game solely for the combat? Yes. More than there are roleplayers? Probably. But the game wasn't designed for that, which is just one of the reasons it's so incredibly screwed up right now.
Smugglers are called a hybrid for a reason. The idea behind our "amazing" specials, is that since we don't have the speed mods of pistoleer or Bounty Hunter, we get specials that let us strategically win, or escape from a battle that we weren't expecting to get into. Smuggler, as originally designed, had more prerequisites, including part of Artisan, to encourage a diverse group of smugglers. Businessman-like smugglers, rough and tumble bar-brawling smugglers, smugglers who spent a lot of time running through the wastelands of tat, etc.
Yes, Half your specials are broken. Half our specials have been nerfed, and that's only 1 tree. the other two trees that really do anything have been nerfed into the ground, and one of them turned us into a bunch of spamming whores for a while. The 4th tree's best ability is UNDERSTANDING LANGUAGES, which, with the exception of 3, any n00b can.
Furthermore, Our profession has been described as "unfinished" by the Devs, since BEFORE the game went live.
We have been waiting on a revamp that has been promised to us for something like 2 years. And then you want to try and nerf us some more.
Maybe you guys want feign death? Hm? wouldja like that? Then you can wave your DE-10s and Geo blasters, and DX-2s in our faces, and laugh because you finally killed our profession. Oh speaking of which, you guys have THREE pistoleer certed weapons. We have.... NO smuggler certed weapons.
For a Corr, you'd think you'd already be aware that the BH speed mods aren't to blame for your slow as crap specials. It's bad math. Pistoleer is supposed to be the fastest ranged weapon, but what is? oh, RIFLES. They screwed up the calcs, and didn't account for player ingenuity.
Again, usually I try to be lighter about things, but man, that just rubs me raw.
maxtheusher wrote:
First and foremost about combat? I call shenanigans. Nothing in this game requires you to even use a weapon if you don't want to. It's a ROLEPLAYING GAME first and foremost. There are people without any professions, who never leave their home town. And housing? How's that combat related? Master artisan? crafting speeders and radios sure requires a lot of combat mods.
I don't like to be mean, I try not to, but that is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard anyone say that wasn't a glowbat swinging 1337whore.
Do a lot of people play this game solely for the combat? Yes. More than there are roleplayers? Probably. But the game wasn't designed for that, which is just one of the reasons it's so incredibly screwed up right now.
Smugglers are called a hybrid for a reason. The idea behind our "amazing" specials, is that since we don't have the speed mods of pistoleer or Bounty Hunter, we get specials that let us strategically win, or escape from a battle that we weren't expecting to get into. Smuggler, as originally designed, had more prerequisites, including part of Artisan, to encourage a diverse group of smugglers. Businessman-like smugglers, rough and tumble bar-brawling smugglers, smugglers who spent a lot of time running through the wastelands of tat, etc.
Yes, Half your specials are broken. Half our specials have been nerfed, and that's only 1 tree. the other two trees that really do anything have been nerfed into the ground, and one of them turned us into a bunch of spamming whores for a while. The 4th tree's best ability is UNDERSTANDING LANGUAGES, which, with the exception of 3, any n00b can.
Furthermore, Our profession has been described as "unfinished" by the Devs, since BEFORE the game went live.
We have been waiting on a revamp that has been promised to us for something like 2 years. And then you want to try and nerf us some more.
Maybe you guys want feign death? Hm? wouldja like that? Then you can wave your DE-10s and Geo blasters, and DX-2s in our faces, and laugh because you finally killed our profession. Oh speaking of which, you guys have THREE pistoleer certed weapons. We have.... NO smuggler certed weapons.
For a Corr, you'd think you'd already be aware that the BH speed mods aren't to blame for your slow as crap specials. It's bad math. Pistoleer is supposed to be the fastest ranged weapon, but what is? oh, RIFLES. They screwed up the calcs, and didn't account for player ingenuity.
Again, usually I try to be lighter about things, but man, that just rubs me raw.
I don't think you get what the pistol correspondent is saying.
Some smugglers cry for pistol speed/accuracy mods for the CU. He is just saying that would be a bad idea. That isn't nerfing anyone.
I think the mods from BH need to be removed in the CU. What you have left are only specials in BH and Smuggler. BH's get ensnaring specials, and Smugglers get evasive specials. Hell you could make these specials work for any kind of weapon.
Furthermore, put significant mods into Novice Pistoleer. By doing so, a smuggler or BH wanting to climb up their pistol trees quickly can do so with a minimal investment into the PISTOL profession.
By doing these steps, you can:
- Ensure that Pistoleer is viable in its own right, even without the need to stack BH or Smuggler.
- Keep BH and Smuggler flexible professions, regardless of the combat profession you might pick up to support it.
- NOT nerf Smuggler. Smuggler has no innate mods anyways.. just specials. By allowing these specials to be evasive in nature, you allow a smuggler to do their job.
Whyyou guys get worked up over a correspondent saying that their profession should be viable by itself is beyond me. Pistoleer is the one combat profession you can stack similar offensive skills with... and the one that is nearly entirely useless even if you DO stack them all together. I think that being able to stack mods is why the Pistoleer profession is so gimped in its own right, and why you NEED to stack Pistoleer with BH and Smuggler to even be somewhat close to being as capable as other combat professions can by themselves. Even piling up pistol skills like this leaves you eating the dust.
A strong Pistoleer profession IS needed. It needs to be strong in its own right, and I think you guys are getting worked into a frenzy for absolutely nothing.
Putting all pistol mods into Pistoleer will ensure that if you choose to use your Smuggler specials with a pistol, that you don't have to pick up BH too. Get me?